Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
RichM

The Having Babies Thread

Recommended Posts

At the moment I couldn't give a toss about the housing market. The only problem with the housing situation in this country is that, any way you look at it, it's too expensive, renting or buying.

I don't want an investment or even soem flash pad to show off to anyone. For me luxury would be a study, maybe a utility room.

Where I am the moment, my wife and I, joint income 60K, pay 825 a month in rent, for a one bed. For various reasons we are committed to where we are at the moment, and so would have to find a two-bed ex-council place or move elsewhere (not really on the cards) if we wanted a extra bedroom.

I am just wondering how people manage. My wife will be able to go back to work part-time I think, but then there is an extra mouth to feed, nappies, child care etc etc.

Do people have suggestions about you cope? Can I expect much help from the government? I gather child benefit is about 17 quid a week, which might pay for nappies I guess.

Or I am just being unrealistic? Do we just have to wait a few more years till we have more money, or move somewhere much cheaper?

I have to say I am greatly troubled about the situation at present in this country. My wife will be 29 next year, but the "good" child rearing years are moving on quite quickly. I readily acknowledge that compared to many others we are very well off - but then we don't get any significant government support as far as I am aware, and have no big family money. How does anyone else breed these days? Is our birth rate just going to go down for the next few years?

Thoughts? Helpful criticism/advice much appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RichM,

Birth rate will plummet IMHO, the seeds have been sown (or not sown I suppose I should say).

The situation is totally unsustainable, and so is the realiance on another generation to foot the bill, parituclar given the current set of circumstances.

Many will go abroad, partituclalry as the UK economy sheds further jobs - just isn't worth sticking around.

Edited by OnlyMe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RichM it's never the right time. I have a 20 months old daughter now. We're living with family but rather than use that rent-free money we're saving like mad. So we have no more disposable income than we would if we had a mortgage.

We have managed to arrange the childcare as follows:

Sister looks after her two days a week

Wife works 4 days with one day working from home - so she's at home for two days

I work compressed hours (5 days work in 4 actual days) - so am at home one day

It's hard work and very tiring. But you'll always find a way. I'm 36 and my wife is older (she probably wont' want me to say her age so I won't). I wish we'd done it sooner as the older you are the more tiring it is. Also it can take some people several years to conceive. So don't assume it will happen first time (although it might!). The later you leave it the harder it becomes (so to speak).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RichM,

there are still some things that are down to your personal circumstances.

Things to consider (not prying)

Do you have a reasonable deposit already if houses were 'priced right'? If so, you may not need to save much more and spend the next couple of years not saving and having a baby. If you do that you will not need another bedroom until, maybe 2007/08 and the toddler years, and by then the HPC should have largely played out and you can buy.

How important is it to you both to start a family right now? Have you set a date in your own minds that you start a family?

As said by OnlyMe your dilhemma highlights some depressing problems in today's society. I guess there are no easy solutions. I am sorry that it has come to this.

Best wishes for your plans. I hope you find a way through to get what you want.

Edited by Starcrossed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Me and Mrs Pirata are in a very similar situation.

Also have around 60k in joint income, paying a little less in rent because we have chosen to live in squalor and save that extra bit more.

In my parents' generation's time, my salary alone would have allowed us to purchase a modest but liveable family home. No chance these days.

So I honestly don't know how most people manage to spawn. I guess I am earning around 30% above the average wage where I live. In a healthy economy/society that would easily be enough to raise a famliy on. Again, no chance right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I was a little boy in the 1960s my parents didn't have their own house until I was ten years old. For a large part of my childhood my two parents, myself and my brother lived in a rented one-bedroom flat in Notting Hill -- my brother and I slept in the bedroom and my parents slept in the living room. This says two things: 1) it is possible for a family to live in a one-bedroom flat and, 2) things in the 1960s were not as wonderful for housebuyers as many people imagine (the documentary about a homeless family 'Cathy Come Home' was made in about 1967). Fortunately, when I was ten years old my parents managed to buy a semi in outer London. But to do this their mortgage was about 90% of their income and they really struggled for a few years. I was lucky they managed to get a house because I could have easily have spent my teenage years in that same one-bedroom flat. Strangely, the street my parents moved to had about 90 semi-detached houses and in none of them were children within 4 years either way of my age. I say this not to win sympathy that I have no neighbourhood friends to play with, but to point out that, even then, families with young children could not afford to buy a house in a street of semis.

In London, I think you are doing well if you own your own house by the age of 40. If you start a family now, maybe after a drop in prices and more saving you will find yourself moving into a house with your children within ten years.

Edited by Padiham

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
When I was a little boy in the 1960s my parents didn't have their own house until I was ten years old. For a large part of my childhood my two parents, myself and my brother lived in a rented one-bedroom flat in Notting Hill -- my brother and I slept in the bedroom and my parents slept in the living room. This says two things: 1) it is possible for a family to live in a one-bedroom flat and, 2) things in the 1960s were not as wonderful for housebuyers as many people imagine (the documentary about a homeless family 'Cathy Come Home' was made in about 1967). Fortunately, when I was ten years old my parents managed to buy a semi in outer London. But to do this their mortgage was about 90% of their income and they really struggled for a few years. I was lucky they managed to get a house because I could have easily have spent my teenage years in that same one-bedroom flat. Strangely, the street my parents moved to had about 90 semi-detached houses and in none of them were children within 4 years either way of my age. I say this not to win sympathy that I have no neighbourhood friends to play with, but to point out that, even then, families with young children could not afford to buy a house in a street of semis.

In London, I think you are doing well if you own your own house by the age of 40. If you start a family now, maybe after a drop in prices and more saving you will find yourself moving into a house with your children within ten years.

I may be wrong but I suspect that in the 60s the housing stock was still recovering from the war. Certainly in the 70s and early 80s, buying a modest house was not out the question for the average late 20s/early 30s couple.

Personally I would not mind renting as your parents did, but I also suspect that renting is something of a different game now than it was then. I understand that there was far more security of tenure, and that landlords were far more professional than the amateur BTL shower we are afflicted with (i'm talking in general terms of course, I know there were slum landlords back in the day).

If I'm wrong, please tell me.

What really bugs me about renting is not being able to do up the place as I see fit, not being able to have pets, and being able to be booted out with one month's notice. Hardly ideal circumstances to bring up a child in.

I once went out with a girl whose family lived in a farmhouse rented off some lord or other, the tenancy agreement went back years. The house was theirs to do as they pleased, no problem with the vast menagerie of pets they had for example. The only difference with owning was that they paid rent instead of a mortgage. I would be very happy with such an arrangement, but try finding that these days!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My wife and I are in a different position to you. At the moment our combined income is about half yours, but children not an issue through medical reasons. Other pressures though would make having a home much better for us. For about six or seven years we have been focused on obtaining as large deposit as we can. At the moment we are nearly half the way to an outright buy for something liveable and third the way for something to our liking. Going are the days when price rises were growing faster than we could save and every percentage drop in the market now is another grand we don’t have to save. It’s taken a lot of sacrifice, crappy cars and cheap holidays not to mention the depression, a couple of years ago it felt hopeless. Being a member of this sight has given me a morale boost to keep going, I’m never put off by bulls or mouthy investors in property they are not relevant to life or objective, all I know is nothing stays the same and pendulums swing from good to bad and bad to good, has done since biblical times and will do until mankind needs to emigrate to another planet. If it turns out I’m wrong well at least We tried.

Good luck with your plans regards to Mrs M and hope to hear soon there’s some little M’s

Best Regards

Bob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Renting now is completely different compared to renting say 20 years ago. Landlords were more professional, and as a renter you had far more rights. Most landlords now days are fly by night Del boys. If interest rates start to increase you will a lot of Del boys go tits up and leave the tenants homeless.

It really is a mess we're in.

Getting married and having kids in the UK right now is tough. It always has been, but now it's even harder. A joint income of 60K/annum is pretty damn good and seeing yourself struggle on that income is depressing. I can see why most youngsters these days see emigration as a serious alternative.

As a parent you also have to also consider your kids' future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I once went out with a girl whose family lived in a farmhouse rented off some lord or other, the tenancy agreement went back years. The house was theirs to do as they pleased, no problem with the vast menagerie of pets they had for example. The only difference with owning was that they paid rent instead of a mortgage. I would be very happy with such an arrangement, but try finding that these days!

The difference is we have to be FLEXIBLE these days. In the tenure of our jobs, and the tenure of our homes. Why?

So that the great debt machine can pack up and f*ck off somewhere else as soon as it has no further need of us. It can't wait for 1 year. It requires instant gratification.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Charlie The Tramp
Renting now is completely different compared to renting say 20 years ago.  Landlords were more professional, and as a renter you had far more rights. 

No thanks to the infamous Thatcher 1988 housing act. :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our situation:

Joint income: £70,000, children: 1 four-year-old daughter, Rent: £825 (2 bedrooms), childcare: £550 per month (Surestart nursery) - was £720 when we used a childminder. We are able to save £550 per month at the moment. The childcare costs have totally eliminated any chance of buying (not that I was seriously considering it). This time next year, however, these costs should ease up when she goes to school, just as prices come down significantly (hopefully). We have no family in the UK so we just had to bite the bullet with these costs. It has been truly maddening shelling out all this cash without "getting anywhere", but I definately get the feeling that our time to move up in the world is near...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
At the moment I couldn't give a toss about the housing market. The only problem with the housing situation in this country is that, any way you look at it, it's too expensive, renting or buying.

Thoughts? Helpful criticism/advice much appreciated.

It’s one of those major life decisions (for most) starting a family.

I have two children and my wife stayed at home with them for 10 years.

Only doing some part-time work around family life when they were older.

10 years living on one income!

We did not have parents to look after them, we did it all off our own backs,

we had no other choice.

No doubt about it, it is a struggle.

But I think we did a good job if I say so myself, both our children

have developed into well-rounded individuals.

Both are in the top set in all their subjects at school,

never had any trouble inside or outside school.

The oldest has just passed a couple of GCSE’s

two years ahead of his time, aged 14. and both are happy

in general life.

I think that is attributed to the sacrifices we made as parents.

So to be blunt, you will have to sacrifice much as a parent.

Don’t let something as silly as house prices get in the way of starting a family.

There will never be a good time to start.

Life’s a journey not a destination.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Three years ago my girlfriend and I became pregnant.

We had a joint income of about £50,000 in the south east.

I couldn't afford any property above a very small one bed flat.

We decided to terminate the baby as we had caught it very early.

I have never been able to forgive myself that we took this action, it split us up eventually..

I returned to the south west where I have rebuilt a carear and almost my salary..

(Its the south west.. they don't pay us that much....)

But it will always be a regret to me and when I think of the housing bubble I think what happened.. It breaks my heart..

(although it was out decision.)

What I would like most in the world?

My own home..

Second.. well.. that would be me and Gordon Brown.. a dark room.. a cheesgrate and loads of spare time..

I was a normal happy man.. I am concerend at the anger I feel.. and the rage that sometimes feels like it will consume me.. But I am getting better..

this site has been a life line.. shows me that my economic theory has not bee flawed.

And if any Police are reading this..

Investigate self Certified mortage fraud..

The blood of any child terminated for the reasons I had now lies on your hands.. and the equity you hold so dear in your house..

That is not earnt by you.. that is the blood of dead children.

Over the top...?

Its over the top times.

Damn you Gordon Brown

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RichM. Your situation is similar to ours, although you have a joint income 20k more.

Surely if we can save a lot each month, you can save massive amounts more.

I'd just stash a huge wodge of cash and consider moving somewhere pretty, safe and cheaper when having kids.

The problems people describe on this thread - that, broadly, it's never been so hard to start a family and not face financial meltdown - are the fault of the growth imperative and that alone. It's only groth which needs people working and working longer hours for - in real terms - less to keep the insanity chugging along.

Apom's post is heartbreaking.

We all need to snap out of the pro-growth trance and rebuild some sort of quality of life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rich, there is no perfect time to have children. However don't leave it too late. We have a three year old boy already and another due this Christmas. On top of this I'm trying to expand my business, have taken on staff, the boy just started Pre-Prep at £1000 a term. The costs of running premises for the business are crippling.

Considering I can charge over £400 a day to clients for my services and I have work backed up for months I still don't get whyI have to worry about monthly costs and bills.

Unfortunately we get taxed to the hilt in this country and the costs of everyday living are extortionate. This makes everything more difficult if you are debt adverse (which most people on HPC seem to be). The system is not built for the sensible people, it's built for the cream at the top and the scum at the bottom. One group doesn't need the help and gets all the breaks. The other group takes the help because they are too lazy to pay their way. Us mugs in the middle pay for both ends.

Rich..start making that family. Every single day that goes by my little boy makes me smile and makes me happy. As much as it puts financial strain on, I would quite happily go broke to have the feelings that your own child brings. There is no price you can pay for the smug happy warm feeling you get inside when they run up to you and give you a great big unconditional hug.

At the very least it will still be almost one year from here that you actually need to consider a second room.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rich M

As an oldie i understand your thinking. But with high HPI natives i.e locals

regardless of the colour of their skin are unable produce off spring. But

as you can see with high levels of immigration comes societies which

favour large families.

An example of this is the recent arrival of Bangladeshis under John Major

government. The family average is 6 children.

Can the locals afford to have children it would be interesting to see if

someone can quantify this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RichM - my advice on children is NOT TO WAIT. You can wait to purchase a house, but the biological clock is ticking and has been said on this thread, you don't know how long it will take and believe me, the father of a 1 year-old, it can be much harder than you think. The cost of having a baby isn't substantial in the early years - you can buy lots of items second-hand, you've just got to be sensible. Of course, if you're dependent on your wife's income, it's going to be even harder and if possible stay close to family. I certainly wouldn't put having children on hold because of the curent economic environment in the UK - if I was really that concerned I'd move abroad to cuontries such as Canada where there is ample more help when having children.

Apom - all I can say is I'm exceptionally sorry for you - if the current housing crisis is principally to blame for terminating a pregnancy this is truly tragic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RichM - my advice on children is NOT TO WAIT. You can wait to purchase a house, but the biological clock is ticking and has been said on this thread, you don't know how long it will take and believe me, the father of a 1 year-old, it can be much harder than you think. The cost of having a baby isn't substantial in the early years - you can buy lots of items second-hand, you've just got to be sensible. Of course, if you're dependent on your wife's income, it's going to be even harder and if possible stay close to family. I certainly wouldn't put having children on hold because of the curent economic environment in the UK - if I was really that concerned I'd move abroad to cuontries such as Canada where there is ample more help when having children.

Apom - all I can say is I'm exceptionally sorry for you - if the current housing crisis is principally to blame for terminating a pregnancy this is truly tragic.

If I am alone in this..

I would be suprised. I would imagine this happens many times a day..

This is also the reason I have re-acted badly to the self cert mortgage fraud.

if the economy was not built solely on debt and fraud I would have a child today that would have been over two years old.

I had a good job and worked hard.

But my situation... Will it compare to those who will be crippled for their lifetimes by this crash.?

Actually yes it will.. and although I will have sympathy for a great number of them.. it will be sympathy tempered by the reality that I have faced.

and many others on here have faced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you didn't get into the property market before 2001, and you aren't earning over k70 (joint) it would be very hard to have a kid and pay a mortgage. Have a kid first, property will go down or wages will go up, as every one else has said here, the current situation is unsustainable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
At the moment I couldn't give a toss about the housing market. The only problem with the housing situation in this country is that, any way you look at it, it's too expensive, renting or buying.

I don't want an investment or even soem flash pad to show off to anyone. For me luxury would be a study, maybe a utility room.

Where I am the moment, my wife and I, joint income 60K, pay 825 a month in rent, for a one bed. For various reasons we are committed to where we are at the moment, and so would have to find a two-bed ex-council place or move elsewhere (not really on the cards) if we wanted a extra bedroom.

I am just wondering how people manage. My wife will be able to go back to work part-time I think, but then there is an extra mouth to feed, nappies, child care etc etc.

Do people have suggestions about you cope? Can I expect much help from the government? I gather child benefit is about 17 quid a week, which might pay for nappies I guess.

Or I am just being unrealistic? Do we just have to wait a few more years till we have more money, or move somewhere much cheaper?

I have to say I am greatly troubled about the situation at present in this country. My wife will be 29 next year, but the "good" child rearing years are moving on quite quickly. I readily acknowledge that compared to many others we are very well off - but then we don't get any significant government support as far as I am aware, and have no big family money. How does anyone else breed these days? Is our birth rate just going to go down for the next few years?

Thoughts? Helpful criticism/advice much appreciated.

Hi,

I am aware of the problem, putting a child in my life would be difficult.

However, I am a bit suprised at your fears with a global 60K. I am just know what you put up there and coming real idea is difficult so I will stick to simple facts which relate to what Ihave noticed in some people I know but I could be wrong so please do not take it badly.

Do you have a car, I mean sporty one? if switch to something else

Do you go out every WE, cut it a bit

Lots of ready meals? Cook more!

Brend clothing? ...Forget it a bit

Change Mobil/computer every year, switch to 2 years....

I could go much further, it sound trivial but it is so true sometimes. Ihave friends who cry all the time, but one just got a M*****s, stick to B**s for his clothing.....

Now I still fully approve yout upset, another friend say, I am fine young whith the same income as here! Humm sorry I rent a little studio at 500% (CT and bills not included), he pays a 400£ mortgage for a 3 bed!! The setting for youg is hard, we have to tight our belt much than those who manage because of there age to get on the housing market when it was affordable.

So as a summary, I would say, with that sort of monney you should be fine if you tight your belt on a daily basis.

TWT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just had the gasman in to check the boiler.

Lives on the same street as me. Missus and I live in a shared house with a couple of students. He lives in a 1 bed flat. He'd like a family - but doesn't want to bring up a child in a 1 bed flat and he can't afford anything bigger so he's waiting and thinking about moving out of London. I'd guess he's in his early 30s.

Apom - I'm sorry for your loss. I know others who've been in similar situations and arrived at the same painful conclusion.

Edited by greencat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks so much for all the thoughtful posts.

apom - don't worry you're not the first at all. I met a family only a few months through work who had had the same dilemma. The mother was still very distraught about it, but still felt they had no choice. There was an article posted on here last year I think about a study in Australia showing a link between high house prices and abortion rates. It really is a big deal.

I should explain a bit more about our situation, as I know 60K joint (gross) is good really. My wife and I are perhaps being too bold in some ways. We are very keen to stay where we are as we are both heavily involved in our local church. The church is in South London, and quite close to the tube, hence the high rent.

As good god squadders we give away 10% gross (about 500 per month), plus we have student loans, including a huge bank loan my wife has from her last few years as a medical student (about to paid off though! going down from 500 to 250 quid a month).

We got married last year so have been clearing overdrafts from that, plus council tax is quite high, travel costs high (we have just been given a car by a friend of a friend, insurance is high at 600 but will come down I hope), plus I have been giving some money to family this year.

So the short of it is we can make "lifestyle" changes, yes, but that might mean leaving our church in the lurch quite a lot - you get plenty of folk whinging about "white flight" but if you do want to hang around and contribute to life in the inner city, it's just so expensive. There's plenty of "black flight" as well these days. There's several families who've been at the church for years, bought at the right time, and have been able to stay on in the area for some time. Eventually they move on when they oldest kids hit 9/10/11 because the local secondary schools are just too scary. We won't even be able to stay on that long, the way things are going.

The key thing is remain grateful for what you have I think, and not be too proud. We will have to cut back on our spending, I've no doubt, and will have to have our first kid sleeping in the front room for the time being. Who knows, we might not even be able to have kids. But at least we'll give it a try ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.