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chris25

The Soloution To Economic Collapse Is So Simple

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I believe there are two obvious problems with the economy:

The first being, the sore fact that humans have become so efficient at what they do, they have completely outsourced themselves.

The second being the theory that there is 10X humans but 6X resources, and the human growth is increasing whilst the resource rate is depleting.

People say we should re-industrialise as a nation, and in many ways I agree but even this presents a problem... just how do we employ everyone when production is so non-labour intensive, for instance car factories used to employ 100,000 to produce the same amount of cars 4000 people can achieve today.

Ok so maybe we could make production less efficient? but then that is a step backwards in technological and evolutionary development, and also can the human mind cope with such mind-numbingly tasks machines could do day-in-day out?

And of course there are competitive issues and resource-depletion issues with dependency upon manufacturing.

I have come to the conclusion that humans are now so efficient at what they do, that there is no need for more humans because there will be nothing for them to do.

The whole concept of population growth following industrial growth is a hideously Victorian concept. People are not needed to produce things. Humanity is just breeding and breeding away and producing children in the future who will have no purpose, as there will be no jobs for them.

So that is why I agree with the implementation of a global at best 1 child policy and at worst 2 child policy, because I honestly believe that humanity has totally outsourced itself, and if we continue to grow at such a great rate, then youth-unemployment attributed riots (like in Egypt) will become the norm across the world, and a whole generation will become engulfed in despair.

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As medical science means that more and more old people will be alive in a vegative state the boom areas for employment will be wiping old peoples ****'s.

And the younger generation think the boomers have screwed them now, the final humiliation phase is coming.

Edited by ralphmalph

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As medical science means that more and more old people will be alive in a vegative state the boom areas for employment will be wiping old peoples ****'s.

And the younger generation think the boomers have screwed them now, the final humiliation phase is coming.

Nah, someone will invent an ****-wiping machine and then we're all unemployed again. ;)

But seriously, we import 40% of the food we eat, most of the cars we drive, almost all the consumer electronics. There is massive scope to increase production without actually consuming more. Then we can impose artificial constraints, like all food production has to be humane, all energy generation green, etc.

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please take all your vaccinations, drink all your Flouride, ensure Global culling can take place in a country near you.

Help the Elite to get everyone else to die for them.

Cheques to the OP please.

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Humanity is just breeding and breeding away and producing children in the future who will have no purpose, as there will be no jobs for them.

So that is why I agree with the implementation of a global at best 1 child policy and at worst 2 child policy, because I honestly believe that humanity has totally outsourced itself, and if we continue to grow at such a great rate, then youth-unemployment attributed riots (like in Egypt) will become the norm across the world, and a whole generation will become engulfed in despair.

There's some advert thing for a diarrhea vaccine where some african woman has lost 6 out of the 8 children she has to diarrhea....

Under your rule she might have none left...

I'm very cynical when I watch any of these appeals for africa for wells ... once they have water, they'll want feeding next... Or is it appalling to think like that?

I do think the solution for economic prosperity is to have less people in the world. I don't know how you reduce the population enough which nuclear war though.

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I do think the solution for economic prosperity is to have less people in the world. I don't know how you reduce the population enough which nuclear war though.

A decent space race. Colonising elsewhere in the solar system or beyond will give us all the space, employment and resources we need.

Sadly nobody in any goverment seems interested in paying for the research so Logans Run here we come.

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A decent space race. Colonising elsewhere in the solar system or beyond will give us all the space, employment and resources we need.

Sadly nobody in any goverment seems interested in paying for the research so Logans Run here we come.

I thought about this too - you don't have to do anything other than appear to be sending people off into space. send them far enough away that there's be no communication with people back on earth and you don't know which soylent green vat they've been tipped into... Of course faking the rocket launches would be costly.

EDIT: I am plotting for novels rather than anything else...

Edited by SarahBell

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There's an interesting lecture from Hans Rosling at TED about population growth. The reality is that in developing countries children are a family resource. The more developed a country becomes, the more infant and child mortality reduces - so people feel the need to have less children.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/hans_rosling_on_global_population_growth.html

That's why people like Bill Gates are spending so much on child healthcare in the developing world. It's not only humane but the only chance we have of stabilising the world population at 9 billion. Arbirtary limits just won't work.

Edited by sohpc

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There's an interesting lecture from Hans Rosling at TED about population growth. The reality is that in developing countries children are a family resource. The more developed a country becomes, the more infant and child mortality reduces - so people feel the need to have less children.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/hans_rosling_on_global_population_growth.html

That's why people like Bill Gates are spending so much on child healthcare in the developing world. It's not only humane but the only chance we have of stabilising the world population at 9 billion. Arbirtary limits just won't work.

This "theory" has been doing the rounds for decades yet somehow in spite of every effort, showering some regions with aid has only slightly slowed the population growth.

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This "theory" has been doing the rounds for decades yet somehow in spite of every effort, showering some regions with aid has only slightly slowed the population growth.

There's a difference between aid and a genuine increase in living standards, unfortunately. Population growth is still out of control in Africa due to other factors such as political instability. The theory itself is sound, it's backed up by statistics.

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Fear not, the human race has two very good in-built mechanisms for dealing with over population and resource depletion:

Tribalism and War.

It would have to be some hell of a war to sort out the current population.. Even knocking off a couple of billion wouldn't solve the problem for long.

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But seriously, we import 40% of the food we eat, most of the cars we drive, almost all the consumer electronics. There is massive scope to increase production without actually consuming more. Then we can impose artificial constraints, like all food production has to be humane, all energy generation green, etc.

Absolutely correct.

For example, thanks to CAP and Britain's membership of the EEC/EU, up to 30% of farm land has been "Set Aside" at various points, to counter Food Mountains; caused by CAP incentives and thus cash crops.

Britain could be virtually self-feeding.

People say we should re-industrialise as a nation, and in many ways I agree but even this presents a problem... just how do we employ everyone when production is so non-labour intensive, for instance car factories used to employ 100,000 to produce the same amount of cars 4000 people can achieve today.

Manufacturing: well the concept that mechanisation would destroy work is plain Luddite Theory: didn't happen then.

Modern industrial production is based around Robotics and what is called CIM: Computer Integrated Manufacturing. This followed on from CAD and then CAM which became the process known as CAD-CAM: i.e. Computer Aided Design-Computer Aided Manufacturing.

Where Britain went wrong was it failed to change its Industrial Model: from a mix of Low Value- High Volume and Mid-Value_Medium Volume to Low Volume-High Value.

Example: manufacture 1,000,000 Tin Openers for £1 = £1 Million revenue.

Manufacture 1 High Value Item for £1 Million = 1£1 Million Revenue.

Example: BaE Systems (As it now is) when British Aerospace and under the chairmanship of the total tosser Prof. Sr Roland Smith (One of Thatcher's chosen anointed) had amongst their company portfolio, one of the plums which was a globally leading manufacturer of satellites.

As part of his prototypical asset stripping regime (This is also how he ruined British Leyland), he flogged it cheap to Aerospaciale, France.

Smart move, uh? One satellite costs considerably more than one tin opener............

Another: GEC when under the stewardship of Sir Arnold Weinstock: instead of investing heavily in say micro-electronics, his final triumph was to buy a company making Nuclear Submarines; when the Cold War was over..........

Electronics: STC: Thorn: GEC; Marconi; Mullard; Ferranti; Plessey; to name just a few.

With their engineering and R &D genius, skilled manufacturing resource and more critically, capital, these companies ought to have been competing with Silicon Valley!

Particularly in a dawning age of digital electronics and a global telecommunications and datacom and computing.

Did you know, for example, that it was an STC research unit (STL) which developed the World's first application and proof of signal transmission through optic fibre? And also STL developed PCM (Pulse Controlled Modulation), a core methodology for Multi-Plexing Signal Transmission for (e.g.) telephone.

Yet the clowns who led these defunct companies are all Sirs and Lords!

Tell you anything?

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There's a difference between aid and a genuine increase in living standards, unfortunately. Population growth is still out of control in Africa due to other factors such as political instability. The theory itself is sound, it's backed up by statistics.

Then how come migrants from these countries still have families in excess of at least 2x the local family size? This "Theory" really doesn't seem to hold water and with the population close to unsustainable any attempt at this wondrous living standard would trigger global collapse.

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Then how come migrants from these countries still have families in excess of at least 2x the local family size? This "Theory" really doesn't seem to hold water and with the population close to unsustainable any attempt at this wondrous living standard would trigger global collapse.

You're talking about first generation migrants. Once you reach the second generation, the number of children stabilises.

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You're talking about first generation migrants. Once you reach the second generation, the number of children stabilises.

OK. So the population of Africa has just passed 1 Billion. We instantly give everyone the standard of living found in the west and stand back for a generation, by which time the population will be about 3-4 Billion, and we will find that the population growth has stabilised. Well according to the "theory" anyway.

:lol:

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Did you know, for example, that it was an STC research unit (STL) which developed the World's first application and proof of signal transmission through optic fibre? And also STL developed PCM (Pulse Controlled Modulation), a core methodology for Multi-Plexing Signal Transmission for (e.g.) telephone.

I did know that!

I've been reading a book about the history of STC between 1883 and 1983, it's been very interesting. It doesn't cover how the company was screwed up in the 80s and 90s and the subsequent sale to Nortel though.

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I did know that!

I've been reading a book about the history of STC between 1883 and 1983, it's been very interesting. It doesn't cover how the company was screwed up in the 80s and 90s and the subsequent sale to Nortel though.

Shame about their subsequent history.

Perhaps the sheer unmitigated incompetence of UK electronics firms is best typified by a chum of mine: together with two other research scientist my chum designed the breakthrough called BiMos: Bi Polar CMOS: amazing new way to lay down silicon chips.

They all then worked for STL (Standard Telephone Laboratories - STC's research and development unit.

The patent subsequently was issued in their joint names together with STC. See here:

Process commercialised, with a major shareholding taken by LSI Logic of Silicon Valley (The founder of LSI, Wilf Corrigan was ex Marconi and gave up in disgust, relocated to Silicon Valley and became a billionaire........).

Plant opened by ted Heath in Footscray with trumpet fanfares and all the rest: and large slices of capital injected by British Gas pension Fund.

My chum owned serious stock options: but gave up and walked out (Leaving stock options on the table) because they were idiots and couldn't manage their way out of a damp paper bag.

Last time we spoke, he was working as a consultant in Korea earning about $250,000 for a couple of months work: helping Korea to dominate global chip design and sales.

Prior to STL/STC he was the head honcho of Motorola's European HQ for silicon design and production in Switzerland.

And we wonder why we are rapidly becoming a bankrupt third world state.................

:rolleyes:

What a way to try to effing run a country..............................

:angry:

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OK. So the population of Africa has just passed 1 Billion. We instantly give everyone the standard of living found in the west and stand back for a generation, by which time the population will be about 3-4 Billion, and we will find that the population growth has stabilised. Well according to the "theory" anyway.

:lol:

So what's your plan then? Force people in many autonomous countries to only have one child?

Oh I get it, you have no plan...just the usual hand wringing and doomsaying you get around here.

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So what's your plan then? Force people in many autonomous countries to only have one child?

Oh I get it, you have no plan...just the usual hand wringing and doomsaying you get around here.

I have some ideas but its fools like Gates that are behind the driving wheel while people like you cheer them on from the sidelines, in spite of that fact that only a few minutes of rhetorical exchange reveals these "theories" for what they are; More plans for lining the pockets of plutocrats while the world goes to hell.

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Guest UK Debt Slave

I believe there are two obvious problems with the economy:

The first being, the sore fact that humans have become so efficient at what they do, they have completely outsourced themselves.

The second being the theory that there is 10X humans but 6X resources, and the human growth is increasing whilst the resource rate is depleting.

People say we should re-industrialise as a nation, and in many ways I agree but even this presents a problem... just how do we employ everyone when production is so non-labour intensive, for instance car factories used to employ 100,000 to produce the same amount of cars 4000 people can achieve today.

Ok so maybe we could make production less efficient? but then that is a step backwards in technological and evolutionary development, and also can the human mind cope with such mind-numbingly tasks machines could do day-in-day out?

And of course there are competitive issues and resource-depletion issues with dependency upon manufacturing.

I have come to the conclusion that humans are now so efficient at what they do, that there is no need for more humans because there will be nothing for them to do.

The whole concept of population growth following industrial growth is a hideously Victorian concept. People are not needed to produce things. Humanity is just breeding and breeding away and producing children in the future who will have no purpose, as there will be no jobs for them.

So that is why I agree with the implementation of a global at best 1 child policy and at worst 2 child policy, because I honestly believe that humanity has totally outsourced itself, and if we continue to grow at such a great rate, then youth-unemployment attributed riots (like in Egypt) will become the norm across the world, and a whole generation will become engulfed in despair.

I agree with the 1 child only policy, or better still, NONE

I never had kids and it grieves me but why have them when their future is so ghastly?

The problem is, it's a very authortarian policy. Do you want to live in a society with state child snatchers going around kidnapping 'surplus stock'?

It will have to be achieved by consent. That'll be a very tough thing to achieve

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I have some ideas but its fools like Gates that are behind the driving wheel while people like you cheer them on from the sidelines, in spite of that fact that only a few minutes of rhetorical exchange reveals these "theories" for what they are; More plans for lining the pockets of plutocrats while the world goes to hell.

Let's hear them then - we can analyse whether they're any good. Not sure how Bill Gates working to eliminate child poverty is lining his pockets, unless you see malnourished children as possible purchasers of Vista.

It's more likely that you think your standard of living needs to be protected at the expense of others. I don't want to lose my standard of living either, that doesn't mean it's sustainable.

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  • 311 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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