Pfizer To Close Sandwich Site

[miko]

Where is ccc when you need him, to give advice about which job they could walk into next?

We don't need him Harry as by now we have all learnt form him .

We all know that some will find jobs those that TRY THE HARDEST QUITE SIMPLE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT .

[200p]

The sad thing is, a lot of drugs deceptively have English packaging, but are not actually made here but are still UK official packs. They may have a office in the UK so that allows them to put a UK address on the box. The worst examples you see are foreign non-official UK packs imported in with English stickers stuck over the Greek/Italian/etc writing.

UK Calcichew = Made in Norway.

UK Questran = Made in France.

So not only manufacturing has gone, it looks like reasearch too. Will it matter anyway? We don't have the money to buy these expensive drugs in future.

[alexw]

I think we lost competitiveness as far back as the 1970's when we had 20%+ inflation and wage rises. It's been downhill ever since as our high wages in relation to other countries has made us too expensive to compete. Isn't that partly why our manufacturing has died a death?

But thats not the way it works. When the UK printed money the currency lost a lot of its value. Zimbabwe had 1000%s of inflation but it doesnt take the value of half the UK to buy a cup of coffee there, and certainly its not an expensive place to be.

Generally when you have inflation the money supply will inflate as well as the cost of everything, and the currency should have a corresponding fall in value.

Your reasoning would only hold true in a fixed currency regime which we dont have. Its our currencies value that has made us too expensive to compete not the wages (google dutch disease). The question is why is our currency so overvalued, whats keeping it up. Twenty years ago it could have been argued that it was the inflow of foreign currency arising from north sea oil & gas. Whats doing it now i'm not sure though i suspect its the financial sector flows.

[trekking]

I didn't know that Pfizer made sandwiches.

[Cinzano Bianco]

And a mass of competition for those jobs .

Reguardless of what skill set is required in London that you say they have , companies will have choices between them and others with the same skill sets but experience of working in their industries. Yes agreed they could do the jobs just as well as the others but the way companies work they won't take them .

You are missing the point:

More jobs will be available in London than in the environs of Sandwich. They could easily go anywhere else, but if they want to carry on working they will be leaving se Kent. The nearest place, which would require least upheaval will be London.

Also, what are you on about "the way companies work"? Finance departments, sales, admin, IT, project managers all have very transferable skills, and experience in a very large blue chip counts for a lot.

An insurance company will take an IT person who has already worked in an insurance company .

Not true.

[MrPin]

I didn't know that Pfizer made sandwiches.

Or sold them on the internet?

[Guillotine]

Any chance that Pfizer will close Walton Oaks in Surrey?

Commercial HQ.

[Badlad1967]

I think people believe the types of jobs lost in Sandwich will not be easily found in the surrounding areas. The nearest place to find similar work will be London, and they would be right. The extreme SE is devoid of any other major businesses - the most notable exceptions being Saga, P&O and Kent Messenger I believe.

Edit: And the public sector of course

Thank you cisco.kid for taking the time to actually read my post.

What you have said is quite accurate - although Saga is primarily a call centre.....

People will need to move to find work - most of the jobs being lost are quite specialised scientific roles. The office generalist and IT roles have been reduced greatly over the past few years.

And for those bleating about how a 90 minute commute is going to bring about the end of the planet yap yap yap - well welcome to East Kent! The choice was Pfizer or commute.... Or (duh!) move....

[Reck B]

I didn't know that Pfizer made sandwiches.

They closed the Sandwich site before bread hits £5000k per loaf.

[Big Orange]

Well the people with PhDs and the like will have some sort of future hunting for similar sort of work that's still elsewhere in the UK/Europe/East Asia/North America, but of course the numpties doing the grunt work like sweeping the floors and driving the pills out, etc, are fooked.

[miko]

You are missing the point:

More jobs will be available in London than in the environs of Sandwich. They could easily go anywhere else, but if they want to carry on working they will be leaving se Kent. The nearest place, which would require least upheaval will be London.

Also, what are you on about "the way companies work"? Finance departments, sales, admin, IT, project managers all have very transferable skills, and experience in a very large blue chip counts for a lot.

Not true.

Wrong

Worked for a company very similar to this and can relate story upon story of people of all skill levels who have found job hunting very difficult . Working for a major blue chip for years can be a dissadvantage as the companies people apply to know they will not be matching the benefits that were enjoyed while working for a top employer. They do not want to take people on who will be seeing their job as a step down . The people I worked with were closer to London than those in Sandwich but did not find many jobs on offer.

[aa3]

Big pharma stopping being a major employer is just the next step in the sage. Around where I live of the top 20 employers virtually all are government organizations. NHS, education, universities, military, local government, quangos..

Of the major private employers most are big box retailers and grocers which pay minimum wage. The middle class is by far mainly government workers. Go down to a car dealership and find out who they ae selling new cars to. Its mainly government workers, because they are the consumer engine in Britain.. and in basically every other industrialized nation.

The age when mass private employers really drove the economy, like huge factories and surrounding supply chains, steel mills, rail, shipyards, etc.. that just doesn't exist anymore.

First you have to admit to yourself that the game has changed. Most of these scientists sadly are not needed anymore in pharma. What pfizer wants is a few super geniuses, probably who are outside the company funded by venture capitalists to come up with breakthroughs. And then pfizer the machine will push them through trials, do the legal work, do the marketing and sales.

But that mid-level scientist who used to do mid-level experiments just isn't needed anymore. Even education doesn't mean much anymore. Great you have a phd in biology.. so do hundreds of thousands of other people in the world. If you were taught it, it means it is widely known and easily available knowledge.. and all money has been wrung out of it. The only value is someone who can think outside the box, and come up with something new.

[Big Orange]

Or most lilely it's a cheaper factory site elsewhere, with better automation, etc, but either way the UK in the last three decades is heading towards being an economic cul-de-sac if this sort of thing continues. But the sort of shite hitting the fan in Africa and Middle East will quite soon spread to the poorer European countries and Britain.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Big Orange

[Realistbear]

RM in the last 24 hours for a 10 mile radius of Sandwich:

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E1173&maxDaysSinceAdded=1&radius=10.0

54 properties for sale found

Its a rush to sell!!!!!!

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/find.html?searchType=SALE&locationIdentifier=REGION^1173&insId=1&radius=10.0&displayPropertyType=&minBedrooms=&maxBedrooms=&minPrice=&maxPrice=&retirement=&partBuyPartRent=&maxDaysSinceAdded=3&_includeSSTC=on&x=52&y=12&sortByPriceDescending=&primaryDisplayPropertyType=&secondaryDisplayPropertyType=&oldDisplayPropertyType=&oldPrimaryDisplayPropertyType=&newHome=&auction=false

124 properties for sale found

in the last 3 days. Rush for exits in full flow. Imagine the poor BTLers who bought in good faith hoping to make a living off Pfizer. *

*

Edited February 2, 2011 by Realistbear

[Realistbear]

Edited February 2, 2011 by Realistbear

[Deft]

I'm sorry for your trouble. I hope you can find another job. At least you don't have a millstone mortgage to hold you back.

Yep - no kids, no mortgage and no debt. The wife does work at Pfizer as well, so who knows where we will end up. Not that bothered about the job but the people and working environment was really interesting most of the time.

Sounds like large portions of the pharmaceutical sciences side may be TUPE'd to a large CRO (i.e. immediate large outsourcing) but they won't know that for a few months (if it happens at all).

[Badlad1967]

Big pharma stopping being a major employer is just the next step in the sage. Around where I live of the top 20 employers virtually all are government organizations. NHS, education, universities, military, local government, quangos..

Of the major private employers most are big box retailers and grocers which pay minimum wage. The middle class is by far mainly government workers. Go down to a car dealership and find out who they ae selling new cars to. Its mainly government workers, because they are the consumer engine in Britain.. and in basically every other industrialized nation.

The age when mass private employers really drove the economy, like huge factories and surrounding supply chains, steel mills, rail, shipyards, etc.. that just doesn't exist anymore.

First you have to admit to yourself that the game has changed. Most of these scientists sadly are not needed anymore in pharma. What pfizer wants is a few super geniuses, probably who are outside the company funded by venture capitalists to come up with breakthroughs. And then pfizer the machine will push them through trials, do the legal work, do the marketing and sales.

But that mid-level scientist who used to do mid-level experiments just isn't needed anymore. Even education doesn't mean much anymore. Great you have a phd in biology.. so do hundreds of thousands of other people in the world. If you were taught it, it means it is widely known and easily available knowledge.. and all money has been wrung out of it. The only value is someone who can think outside the box, and come up with something new.

You've hit the nail on the head here. Times are a -changing.....

I went out for a few jars last night with a group of my old Pfizer work mates. Interesting to hear that about half want to stay in the area and commute and the rest are thinking of moving - mostly to Switzerland. Career change was the subject of choice for those wanting to stay. We'll see how this one pans out but it doesn't look for good for East Kent

[Realistbear]

Yep - no kids, no mortgage and no debt. The wife does work at Pfizer as well, so who knows where we will end up. Not that bothered about the job but the people and working environment was really interesting most of the time.

Sounds like large portions of the pharmaceutical sciences side may be TUPE'd to a large CRO (i.e. immediate large outsourcing) but they won't know that for a few months (if it happens at all).

RM show extraordinary activity in the area with 124 houses being listed on RM alone in the last 3 days. Is this a topic of conversation locally? Seems as if a rush to sell got underway overnight with 54 new listings by the close of business on the day the lay offs were announced.

My daughter used to work for Pfizer and was similarly laid off a few years back when they cut back operations in San Diego.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Realistbear

[Ruffneck]

I think we lost competitiveness as far back as the 1970's when we had 20%+ inflation and wage rises. It's been downhill ever since as our high wages in relation to other countries has made us too expensive to compete. Isn't that partly why our manufacturing has died a death?

That will happen to other countries also , it's happening to China right now.

In the end China will be in the position the Uk is in now , and the banksters will still be laughing all the way to the...erm bank.

[Realistbear]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1352698/Drugs-giants-Pfizer-lays-2-400-shuts-Viagra-plant.html

I did a check on Rightmove and see that 154 new properties came on the market within a 10 mile radius of Sandwich in the last 36 hours. This will devastate an already collapsing property market and leave those who invested in Buy to Let properties facing bankruptcy. Sadly, this pattern is being repeated up and down the country where job cuts are leading to masses of houses coming to market. Some have been able to get out in time but for most, there will be repossessions by the hundreds.

- Real Istbear, Brighton, UK, 2/2/2011 8:17

Click to rate Rating (0)

I posted on the DM website (made a mistake on the numbers--oops) and gave myself a green arrow only to see it countered by a red one moments later. Someone obviously did not care for my comment for some reason. Perhaps a local "entrepreneur" (BTL scum).

Sad as this news is, if it dents the BTL mania in this country one good purpose will have been served.

[Realistbear]

Click to rate Rating 11

TBH, pretty devastating news propertywise.

Jobs are THE trigger for the HPC. Its forced sales like we are seeing in Kent that will bring stubborn sellers into our world of reality. All hope a Spring Bounce must surely be over now--even in the minds of the most deluded property speculators/over leveraged "owners".

[aa3]

You've hit the nail on the head here. Times are a -changing.....

I went out for a few jars last night with a group of my old Pfizer work mates. Interesting to hear that about half want to stay in the area and commute and the rest are thinking of moving - mostly to Switzerland. Career change was the subject of choice for those wanting to stay. We'll see how this one pans out but it doesn't look for good for East Kent

I debated with some pharma guys a few years back about the future of their industry. I said imagine you found a new orange grove and it was filled with oranges. At first the oranges are easy to get and plentiful, but over time as the oranges are picked it gets harder to find oranges. Until a few are left hidden but its not worth the effort to get them.

That is any paradigm of medicine. I think that is happening in the pharma industry. It happened before in vaccines. There was 7 big killers of mankind, that led to 50% of children dying before the age of 5. When vaccinations were developed for those 7 it was like finding the new orange grove. But nowadays they are going for obscure targets that the risks and costs of immunization arguably outweigh the benefits of such a rare disease.

Luckily there is other untouched orange groves out there. Stem cells is imo bigger than pharma-chem, there is genetic engineering, nanomedicine. If I was laid off in big pharma I would take my severance and unemployment insurance and train up in one of the emerging fields.

For East Kent, I will be the contrarian on this thread and say it won't be as bad as people think. I bet in the greater area, already basically all of the biggest employers are government ministries/local government. Then there is all the people on pensions, disability, benefits.

[Gone baby gone]

That is any paradigm of medicine. I think that is happening in the pharma industry. It happened before in vaccines. There was 7 big killers of mankind, that led to 50% of children dying before the age of 5. When vaccinations were developed for those 7 it was like finding the new orange grove. But nowadays they are going for obscure targets that the risks and costs of immunization arguably outweigh the benefits of such a rare disease.

It's not just that, it's also the huge costs and long timelines involved.

Many 'blockbuster' drugs are accidental discoveries, found when attempting to treat another illness or problem (Viagra being a prime example). Most drug candidates drop out of the 'pipeline' before they get to the commericalisation stage - the further they get before they drop out the more money and time is wasted. Couple this with short drug patents (20 years from the point of invention- which is often up to a decade before the drug is on the market). To rub salt in the wound, the complex and expensive certification that each drug needs to go through is getting progressively more complex and expensive!

http://www.forbes.com/2005/03/09/cx_mh_0309plavix.html

Genetically targeted drugs were supposed to make things better (higher success rates), but have yet to bear fruit. Until they do, or something significant changes (longer patents, lighter regulation) the pharama industry is going to be in decline.

[the gardener]

Most certainly will.

Plus, of course, these are all highly skilled and educated employees, I thought in CCC's world it was only the uneducated and unskilled which would be unemployed.

No, it's just that they don't want a job. They need to really want a job to be able to get one. They should all get together Uri Geller-like and all shout "Job" at the same time and then surely a job will appear.

[Realistbear]

129 properties for sale found

Thats 5 more listed in the area in the last hour or so.

129 new listings for a 10mi radius from Sandwich in 3 days is huge.

Edit: 71 of those listed in the last 24 hours which suggests that some knew it was coming before the news broke. I feel sorry for them but surely this rush to sell is incredibly self-defeating. But what else can they do as BTL is dead in the water now.

Edited February 2, 2011 by Realistbear