What's My House Worth?

[Gavin123]

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice. I'm Currently selling my house. Asking price is 180k. I bought it in Q2 2005 as a new build within a development. Its detached 4 bedroom + garage. I paid 155k (+ 3k pc sums). It stands me around 170k taking into account all the fittings etc. The rv is £140k. Before i purchased the house i checked the price with a few estate agents (not the ones who were selling it) who felt the asking price was about right.

I've just received an offer of 150k which i believe is too low given what i paid and in comparison to other properties (I have received 2 other offers which didn't proceed - the previous one was for 165k).

From my perspective, as a seller, its very frustrating as I really don't know what is a decent offer. Part of the problem is I don't think i would be able to achieve the same reduction off any houses that i would be interested in. I can't take the EA's view on it as 10 or 20k to them only equates to about £200 commission.

Your thoughts would be appreciated?

[fallingbuzzard]

Whats the point in selling a house if you have not found anywhere to buy and spoken to someone about your mortgage potential? That makes you unable to judge whether or not an offer is good enough for you to move. The chicken comes before the egg.

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice. I'm Currently selling my house. Asking price is 180k. I bought it in Q2 2005 as a new build within a development. Its detached 4 bedroom + garage. I paid 155k (+ 3k pc sums). It stands me around 170k taking into account all the fittings etc. The rv is £140k. Before i purchased the house i checked the price with a few estate agents (not the ones who were selling it) who felt the asking price was about right.

I've just received an offer of 150k which i believe is too low given what i paid and in comparison to other properties (I have received 2 other offers which didn't proceed - the previous one was for 165k).

From my perspective, as a seller, its very frustrating as I really don't know what is a decent offer. Part of the problem is I don't think i would be able to achieve the same reduction off any houses that i would be interested in. I can't take the EA's view on it as 10 or 20k to them only equates to about £200 commission.

Your thoughts would be appreciated?

[wild card]

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/hpi/Default.asp?calculate=true

Gives a rough idea of what Nationwide think its worth in December 2010

A property located in Northern Ireland which was valued at £155000 in Q2 of 2005, would be worth approximately £166230 in Q4 of 2010.

Edited January 25, 2011 by fixed

[nigooner]

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice. I'm Currently selling my house. Asking price is 180k. I bought it in Q2 2005 as a new build within a development. Its detached 4 bedroom + garage. I paid 155k (+ 3k pc sums). It stands me around 170k taking into account all the fittings etc. The rv is £140k. Before i purchased the house i checked the price with a few estate agents (not the ones who were selling it) who felt the asking price was about right.

I've just received an offer of 150k which i believe is too low given what i paid and in comparison to other properties (I have received 2 other offers which didn't proceed - the previous one was for 165k).

From my perspective, as a seller, its very frustrating as I really don't know what is a decent offer. Part of the problem is I don't think i would be able to achieve the same reduction off any houses that i would be interested in. I can't take the EA's view on it as 10 or 20k to them only equates to about £200 commission.

Your thoughts would be appreciated?

You can always offer your EA a bonus (on the side) to them personally. If they get 155k for example, you pay basic commission. But offer them 10% on everything over 155k. if they get 165k, you got an extra 9k on the price (after giving the EA 1k). its not ideal considering the EA is meant to be getting you maximum amount of cash, but the EA wont bother to get the maximum- he/she has to put in more effort to get a few extra 1000 on the price, to only get his AGENCY a few hundred extra (of which he sees even less in commission), so its not worth their while.

Freakonomics is a good read, covers all this sort of stuff.

[Gavin123]

Whats the point in selling a house if you have not found anywhere to buy and spoken to someone about your mortgage potential? That makes you unable to judge whether or not an offer is good enough for you to move. The chicken comes before the egg.

i've seen a place i like but don't want to view this until I'm in a position that i could actually proceed with a purchase. I also don't want to appear to insult them with what they perceive to be a very low bid. It's advertised at 225k and has an rv of 200k . I' can add upto 35k to my borrowing after i've allowed for moving fees Therefore leaving me with an offer in the region of 185k (although there may be some more upward movement from the bidder on my house). ES indicated that the sellers felt they have advertised it reasonably and won't be interested in offers way off the mark.

Although this house is nice it needs some modernisation - Part of the problem with the RV is it dosn't take these factors into account. Wha t sort of offer do you think would be reasonable given the basic facts i've provided (or should i pinch myself and stop dreaming!)

Cheers

[Gavin123]

http://www.nationwide.co.uk/hpi/Default.asp?calculate=true

Gives a rough idea of what Nationwide think its worth in December 2010

cheers for the link. If I put in 170k which is what it ended up costing me it says it would be worth approximately £182317 in Q4 of 2010.

This would be great but def not going to get that for it.

[CS111]

Im going to look at a new build house tomorrow, its only at 1st fix and needs a alot of work doing

Needs electric brought to the house, needs plumbed, septic tank, basically everything

Garden also needs landscaped, its a mess

No skirting boards on, no doors, no bathrooms, kitchen etc etc

Im going to offer 60k less then they want, its on at 210k, i know they ran out of money.

They can take it or leave it, thats if i like the house at all

Im guessing it will take 50-60k to finish it to a good standard

[Gavin123]

I can only say what I said in this thread to another poster with a similar question

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=158056

Remember that any asset is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay- if you delay too long then you just chase the market down. I saw one today that was holding on for better days - and he had to drop 50K in the hope of selling. It's your choice-- I am a buyer and I won't be paying any more than I have to so I am biased.

Personally I think you will be able to make it up on your next purchase but I cannot guarantee it. Read the price drops on Irishhousehunter and see what happens if you delay too long.

http://www.irishhousehunter.com/reports/report.php?site=propertynewsni&date=2011-01-24

cheers for this - some great information. You've hit the nail on the head about delaying. That's one of my biggest worries- that i could rue the decisions i make now later down the line. I assume you don't believe the markets near the bottom yet?

[S S]

Im going to look at a new build house tomorrow, its only at 1st fix and needs a alot of work doing

Needs electric brought to the house, needs plumbed, septic tank, basically everything

Garden also needs landscaped, its a mess

No skirting boards on, no doors, no bathrooms, kitchen etc etc

Im going to offer 60k less then they want, its on at 210k, i know they ran out of money.

They can take it or leave it, thats if i like the house at all

Im guessing it will take 50-60k to finish it to a good standard

50-60k to finish to a good standard, good luck with that.

[wtw2]

One of these sold last week for £137k - http://www.propertynews.com/developmentBrochure.php?p=129&r=ni&a=22

The house was built in 2004 and had the same spec as your one, with mature gardens etc.

[Malthus]

If the only current offer on the table is £150k then that is what your house is currently worth. You can choose to sell at the Market price or keep the house and await other offers.

The price you paid has no relevance.

[Bill Poster]

To the original poster I would say there is something wrong if he can not take his EAs advice which is part of the service he will be paying for. Are things that bad out there with regard to trusting the professional?

To remark that the difference in the sale fee is a couple of hundred quid and that this may skew the advice is all wrong. The EA wants to do a deal at the best price that can reasonably be expected to be achieved. There is nothing to be gained by holding out for an unachievable price and likewise short selling is almost impossible to achieve and pointless.

The house is worth today the best price you can get offerred on it by a willing and able purchaser.

[nigooner]

The EA wants to do a deal at the best price that can reasonably be expected to be achieved.

Not necessarily. If an EA has to do an extra 2 hours work to get the sales price from 155k to 160k, is it worth his time?

the extra commission his agency get is only £50 (of which he gets a tiny fraction). Why would he spend two hours getting, for arguments sake, an extra £10 in his pay packet when he can go out and spend 2 hours selling another house at a low price, bagging a lot more commission than £10.

There gets a point where the effort put into getting a higher price is not worthwhile for the agent, and so he would advise the vendor to take the low-ish offer. This is from freakonimcs:

Using the data from the sales of those 100,000 Chicago homes, and controlling for any number of variables—location, age and quality of the house, aesthetics, and so on—it turns out that a real-estate agent keeps her own home on the market an average of ten days longer and sells it for an extra 3-plus percent, or $10,000 on a $300,000 house. When she sells her own house, an agent holds out for the best offer; when she sells yours, she pushes you to take the first

decent offer that comes along.

its up to you whether you think you will get offered £160-165k though!

Edited January 26, 2011 by nigooner

[vman7]

"Not necessarily. If an EA has to do an extra 2 hours work to get the sales price from 155k to 160k, is it worth his time?"

Gavin123 - this statement is ludicrous. This is there bloody job so of course they should be pushing the sale. If any of us took this laxidisical attitude with our jobs we would no longer be in one!

This is the problem with todays EA's, they are living in the past. They had it so good during the boom years that they think they are actual sales people. They are not sales people they are glorified admin. They answer calls/emails, show someone a house and then its up to that person to decide if they like th house or not - how is this selling?? How difficult was it to sell a house during the boom? not very! they need to wake up to the fact that they are nothing more than someone who just shows you round a house and its up to the buyer if they like it.

RANT OVER!!!

[nigooner]

"Not necessarily. If an EA has to do an extra 2 hours work to get the sales price from 155k to 160k, is it worth his time?"

Gavin123 - this statement is ludicrous. This is there bloody job so of course they should be pushing the sale. If any of us took this laxidisical attitude with our jobs we would no longer be in one!

This is the problem with todays EA's, they are living in the past. They had it so good during the boom years that they think they are actual sales people. They are not sales people they are glorified admin. They answer calls/emails, show someone a house and then its up to that person to decide if they like th house or not - how is this selling?? How difficult was it to sell a house during the boom? not very! they need to wake up to the fact that they are nothing more than someone who just shows you round a house and its up to the buyer if they like it.

RANT OVER!!!

I wish I lived in your world,where everyone did their job to the best of their ability,everybody pays taxes and tooth fairies leave £s under pillows.

When sales are so hard to come by nowadays,do you really expect an EA to turn down a guaranteed sale (and commission) in order to try and get a few thousand quid on the sale price for the vendor and risk losing the sale?I don't think so.

Maybe in a booming Market the EA would get the maximum price and be prepared to play the waiting game, they would definitely not be doing it today.

[Bill Poster]

I wish I lived in your world,where everyone did their job to the best of their ability,everybody pays taxes and tooth fairies leave £s under pillows.

When sales are so hard to come by nowadays,do you really expect an EA to turn down a guaranteed sale (and commission) in order to try and get a few thousand quid on the sale price for the vendor and risk losing the sale?I don't think so.

Maybe in a booming Market the EA would get the maximum price and be prepared to play the waiting game, they would definitely not be doing it today.

I would not expect an EA to turn down and lose a guaranteed sale if indeed there is such an animal but I would expect one to use their craft and expertise to make the most of a situation and issue the proper advise to their client so they can make an informed decision.

The EA is often maligned but if I were to line up a seller, a buyer and an agent I would have little hesitation in pointing out the greedy one of the trio.

[nigooner]

It's fairly easy for an EA to guide the vendor to accept an offer on a property (umm and ahh,markets going down,it's a good offer etc etc), making sure he has the best chance if getting a commission out of it. Obv the Legals and mortgage and so on can still fall through,but he can still influence the vendor to accept and increase his chance of earning a fee

But is the EA really going to spend all this extra time getting an extra £1k on the price? I don't think so. Especially considering the surveyor will prob cream off a few thousand on the valuation to cover his back?

[tinbin]

interesting topic ... what is my house worth??

That is pretty much the million dollar question and EA's cant answer it for you. They will guess what they 'think' they can get for it. The way the market is now you will find that most EA's will put a property on expecting to get 10-15% less that the asking price so effectively you could argue that the asking prices are not a true reflection of current values anyway.

The past is the past so regardless of what you paid in 2005 it has no bearing on what you get for the property now.

The only problem with that is that even though we accept that the housing market was overpriced in 2006/2007 when the boom was reaching a peak, we tend to overlook the fact that house prices have been rising at a much faster rate than salaries etc over the past 10 years. Therefore it could be argued that you paid too much for your property in 2005. It depends on your viewpoint.

Most homeowners who bought pre-boom accept and acknowledge that house prices were too high and talk about them coming down, but for some reason tend to draw the line at drops below the levels at which they bought ... reason being that the mentality still exists that you can not lose money on a property unless you bought during the boom periods.This is absurd IMO. Why should prices not fall to 2000/2001 levels? Why have bricks and mortar suddenly become so massively inflated in value. Its hardly platinum! Who does high house prices actually benefit.. is it for the greater good of society

I sold my house last year. There are houses in the same area that have been on sale for 2 years and more. Some are still trying to get £150k for them. I put mine on at a reasonable price and it sold in 2 weeks (honestly!!). The MTG approval for the buyers didn't happen just as quick but my point is if you are serious about selling you will need to consider carefully your options, what & if you can afford to sell at a reduced price and what position that leaves you in to purchase your next house.

Anyone who is selling a house at the minute which hasn't sold after 3 months needs to revisit their valuation. If a buyer thought it was value for money it would have been sold by now.

[Bill Poster]

It's fairly easy for an EA to guide the vendor to accept an offer on a property (umm and ahh,markets going down,it's a good offer etc etc), making sure he has the best chance if getting a commission out of it. Obv the Legals and mortgage and so on can still fall through,but he can still influence the vendor to accept and increase his chance of earning a fee

But is the EA really going to spend all this extra time getting an extra £1k on the price? I don't think so. Especially considering the surveyor will prob cream off a few thousand on the valuation to cover his back?

You seem to have suffered some trauma, perhaps in past life and the effects are subconcious.

Perhaps you fall asleep at night gnawing your forearm at the thought of EAs earning fees. That is how the world goes round. We employ someone, not just anyone, but someone chosen through reputation, recommendation or experience to do a job. Any job, fixing pipes or selling houses. We expect them to do their best for us and be pleasant about it. At the end of it they get paid.

If we are pleased we spread the word, if we are displeased we also spread the word. Others may be influenced by our experiences.

That's life.

[nigooner]

You seem to have suffered some trauma, perhaps in past life and the effects are subconcious.

Perhaps you fall asleep at night gnawing your forearm at the thought of EAs earning fees. That is how the world goes round. We employ someone, not just anyone, but someone chosen through reputation, recommendation or experience to do a job. Any job, fixing pipes or selling houses. We expect them to do their best for us and be pleasant about it. At the end of it they get paid.

If we are pleased we spread the word, if we are displeased we also spread the word. Others may be influenced by our experiences.

That's life.

Its the opposite. I have paid EAs extra commission in the past for achieving what I perceived as a good price for me. Prior to offering an incentive to an EA the first time, the price reached a level that the EA suggest I accept. I offered the EA a bonus payment for achieving an extra 9% on the highest offer he had received so far. Needless to say, after a few days, the offer magically got pushed up by 9%, at which i accepted.

The EA got a bonus in his pocket, I got an extra 9%. This obviously wouldn't have happened if that extra incentive wasn't in place.

It shows that the incentives for EA's differ than that of the vendor. While the vendor wants as much as possible, the EA will not necessarily get the highest price possible. Sometimes an extra incentive is required in order to get that extra effort out of them. If i was naive, like most non-HPCers, i would have accepted the offer on the advice of the EA.

If i want an extra x% on a sale, im happy to pay the EA a bit more to get it. I don't gnaw at my arm at somebody getting paid well, provided I get a good result out of it. This argument all came about because someone said it was ridiculous that an EA wouldn't strive to get the maximum amount for the vendor. But they wont, unless they have an added incentive. Regardless of what people say, EAs are human, and will (in most cases) only put in extra work if there is a sufficient benefit to them.

Back to the topic- its amazing what a reduction in a price will do, even 10k. Most non-HPCers would not even bother looking at a house unless the asking price is in their budget, even a house 10k above their budget. Hopefully you get a good amount of viewers and an offer or two, as a result of lowering the price. But its only you that can judge if its a decent offer, and that depends on what you want to do with the proceeds of the sale!

IMO i would sell,and then rent for a year or two. My moneys on the market (for large houses) falling a long way yet, new build or not.

[Bill Poster]

Its the opposite. I have paid EAs extra commission in the past for achieving what I perceived as a good price for me. Prior to offering an incentive to an EA the first time, the price reached a level that the EA suggest I accept. I offered the EA a bonus payment for achieving an extra 9% on the highest offer he had received so far. Needless to say, after a few days, the offer magically got pushed up by 9%, at which i accepted.

The EA got a bonus in his pocket, I got an extra 9%. This obviously wouldn't have happened if that extra incentive wasn't in place.

It shows that the incentives for EA's differ than that of the vendor. While the vendor wants as much as possible, the EA will not necessarily get the highest price possible. Sometimes an extra incentive is required in order to get that extra effort out of them. If i was naive, like most non-HPCers, i would have accepted the offer on the advice of the EA.

If i want an extra x% on a sale, im happy to pay the EA a bit more to get it. I don't gnaw at my arm at somebody getting paid well, provided I get a good result out of it. This argument all came about because someone said it was ridiculous that an EA wouldn't strive to get the maximum amount for the vendor. But they wont, unless they have an added incentive. Regardless of what people say, EAs are human, and will (in most cases) only put in extra work if there is a sufficient benefit to them.

Back to the topic- its amazing what a reduction in a price will do, even 10k. Most non-HPCers would not even bother looking at a house unless the asking price is in their budget, even a house 10k above their budget. Hopefully you get a good amount of viewers and an offer or two, as a result of lowering the price. But its only you that can judge if its a decent offer, and that depends on what you want to do with the proceeds of the sale!

IMO i would sell,and then rent for a year or two. My moneys on the market (for large houses) falling a long way yet, new build or not.

Fair enough, I enjoyed the banter.

[vman7]

"This argument all came about because someone said it was ridiculous that an EA wouldn't strive to get the maximum amount for the vendor. But they wont, unless they have an added incentive. Regardless of what people say, EAs are human, and will (in most cases) only put in extra work if there is a sufficient benefit to them."

nigooner - if there is no incentive for someone in todays employment market to do that extra bit in their job then i am sure there are plenty of other people out there willing to take their place and do it. Its time to get rid of these EA's who have had it so easy for the last 6/7 years, walk about as if they are gods gift and bring in some new young blood who will work their socks off and be happy that they have a job. They will work hard for the EA to build a good rep regardless of that extra couple hundred quid commision as in the long run the reputation and trust they will have built will bring in the commision itself!

you say EA's are human and will only put the extra work in if there is a benefit but thats the problem in todays society - selfishness, greed etc

[fallingbuzzard]

In defence of EAs they only try to bring buyers and sellers together. Property priced at market value always sell, whatever the conditions or direction of the market. Mispriced houses only sell in rising markets.

"This argument all came about because someone said it was ridiculous that an EA wouldn't strive to get the maximum amount for the vendor. But they wont, unless they have an added incentive. Regardless of what people say, EAs are human, and will (in most cases) only put in extra work if there is a sufficient benefit to them."

nigooner - if there is no incentive for someone in todays employment market to do that extra bit in their job then i am sure there are plenty of other people out there willing to take their place and do it. Its time to get rid of these EA's who have had it so easy for the last 6/7 years, walk about as if they are gods gift and bring in some new young blood who will work their socks off and be happy that they have a job. They will work hard for the EA to build a good rep regardless of that extra couple hundred quid commision as in the long run the reputation and trust they will have built will bring in the commision itself!

you say EA's are human and will only put the extra work in if there is a benefit but thats the problem in todays society - selfishness, greed etc

[Reraise]

OP, malthus hit the nail on the head, barring any other interest in your house, that is what it is worth at the present time. Just make sure you don't pay too much for your next house.

[nigooner]

you say EA's are human and will only put the extra work in if there is a benefit but thats the problem in todays society - selfishness, greed etc

i dont disagree there!

but the government and financial institutions only have themselves to blame. theres a culture where people want stuff and they want it yesterday, without saving and/or working for it. along as the credit is there for people to abuse, and as long as the government spoon feed lazy turds to a cosy lifestyle, unfortunately there is no incentive to change.

Even if there is a changing of the EA guards, unfortunately the new breed will only fall into the same habits in 7-10 years time.

if a house is priced well, it will sell. If a vendor has the time to do the viewings, they could sell it themselves and bypass EAs and their £250 marketing fees. (as to how they calculate this figure, i do not know! Surely £50 max would suffice).