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Double dipper dreamer

Are New Developments Fair Game For Low Offers?

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I've been a FTB looking quite extensively for a long time now at new developements in Belfast and Lisburn. I've even gone so far as to plotting the price drops in some major Belfast and Lisburn new developments over the last six months (a bit sad I know! :P )

I've noticed large price drops (25K or sometimes more) in the 250K+ 4 bed detached but not so much in the more FTB friendly sub-230K 3 bed semi.

Even so, all the prices are advertised as "Fixed Price", even when speaking to the EA's they say sorry "Fixed Prices". I spoke to the developers directly and they said I could only deal with the estate agents not them directly.

Do the EA/developers not realise the state of the market? are they ignoring all the signs?

My question then is, how "Fixed" is "Fixed Price"?, surely I am now in the position as a FTB not in a chain to make the most of this and go in with a lower offer to this fixed price. Seriously how much longer are the EA/developers going to hold out?!

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I've been a FTB looking quite extensively for a long time now at new developements in Belfast and Lisburn. I've even gone so far as to plotting the price drops in some major Belfast and Lisburn new developments over the last six months (a bit sad I know! :P )

I've noticed large price drops (25K or sometimes more) in the 250K+ 4 bed detached but not so much in the more FTB friendly sub-230K 3 bed semi.

Even so, all the prices are advertised as "Fixed Price", even when speaking to the EA's they say sorry "Fixed Prices". I spoke to the developers directly and they said I could only deal with the estate agents not them directly.

Do the EA/developers not realise the state of the market? are they ignoring all the signs?

My question then is, how "Fixed" is "Fixed Price"?, surely I am now in the position as a FTB not in a chain to make the most of this and go in with a lower offer to this fixed price. Seriously how much longer are the EA/developers going to hold out?!

Fixed price means they know the market is totally banjoed so have no chance of getting an offer over whatever figure they pluck from the air.

Dont even listen to the estate agent when talking to him/her, treat them as sales people which is what are essentially. Once you have done your research and are happy with a figure you think is correct then offer few % below that figure and leave yourself some room for negotiation.

Just remember the balls in your court so dont be pressured into making an offer by the crap the EA will try feed you. New builds will also lose their value quicker than older type houses due to the way their constructed.

good luck anyway.

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Look elsewhere. If the developers won't sell at a realistic price for you then look at the second hand market. I know of people who have grabbed bargains in houses a couple of years old,

I'm talking 45% of peak prices.

I've started very recently to also look at second hand properties, I've even gone as far as viewing a few. Those which haven't been vacant/flooded over Christmas are still asking over the odds. I was slightly reassured (although still suspicious) by a local small EA who was quite frank about the prices being asked. She said that they are having to be brutally honest with some sellers, telling them that the market is not the same as 3 years ago and that their property is not worth what they want the asking price to go on at!

Another EA told me of a property having to go out to closed contract to three perspective buyers because the bidding was getting out of hand and they feared if it went sale agreed the valuation would kill the deal!

You're right there are some good deals, but it takes a good bit of digging to get to them. There are some good solid properties out there which maybe only need some TLC (along with the sellers to wise up on the asking price!)

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I've been a FTB looking quite extensively for a long time now at new developements in Belfast and Lisburn. I've even gone so far as to plotting the price drops in some major Belfast and Lisburn new developments over the last six months (a bit sad I know! :P )

I've noticed large price drops (25K or sometimes more) in the 250K+ 4 bed detached but not so much in the more FTB friendly sub-230K 3 bed semi.

Even so, all the prices are advertised as "Fixed Price", even when speaking to the EA's they say sorry "Fixed Prices". I spoke to the developers directly and they said I could only deal with the estate agents not them directly.

Do the EA/developers not realise the state of the market? are they ignoring all the signs?

My question then is, how "Fixed" is "Fixed Price"?, surely I am now in the position as a FTB not in a chain to make the most of this and go in with a lower offer to this fixed price. Seriously how much longer are the EA/developers going to hold out?!

Is there a particular reason you want a new build? You'd probably get a much better deal on a 'pre-owned' as the Yanks call them.

Also as well to bear in mind that new builds sometimes have glitches that can be a real pain to get sorted out, and that may not rear their shoddy heads until you've moved in. Unless you're in the trade yourself I'd take someone with a razor-sharp eye for 'snagging' if you're set on a new build.

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I today offered £200k on a property which was up for sale at £249,950 offers

The vendor turned it down flat and arent willing to move anything on the asking price, not even a few thousand quid apparently

On to the next one i guess

RTV is 170,000 by the way and it has dropped from 300k to 265k to 249,950

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I today offered £200k on a property which was up for sale at £249,950 offers

The vendor turned it down flat and arent willing to move anything on the asking price, not even a few thousand quid apparently

On to the next one i guess

RTV is 170,000 by the way and it has dropped from 300k to 265k to 249,950

Sounds familiar! I've been trawling propertynews with the help of propertybee and going well armed to viewings, but some people still won't let go! Only a few have been willing to negotiate even!

I understand it's peoples homes and they don't want the negative equity but then don't put it up for sale and just try and ride it out!

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Is there a particular reason you want a new build? You'd probably get a much better deal on a 'pre-owned' as the Yanks call them.

Also as well to bear in mind that new builds sometimes have glitches that can be a real pain to get sorted out, and that may not rear their shoddy heads until you've moved in. Unless you're in the trade yourself I'd take someone with a razor-sharp eye for 'snagging' if you're set on a new build.

We fancy a new build because mainly of the room sizes. Some "pre-owned" builds are struggling for space to fit a double bed and a wardrobe in the one room. I totally understand that new builds aren't without risks and glitches. The thing we don't like so much about new builds is the amount of land around them, as they wedge them all together to maximise the space.

Its quite the conundrum, new build with no garden vs older build with garden but tiny rooms? :huh:

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Owners need to get their heads out of the clouds really.

We are FTB's with a 60%-70% cash deposit and sellers wont budge on prices

Dont like saying it but they might be glad of those offers in 6-12 months time if/when interest rates rise

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Alot of new developments in Lisburn are selling ok. I heard one EA tell me that one in particular has been selling over 100 houses per year over the last 3 years. I admit I have no way of confirming this. What I am trying to say is - if the developer has been selling well at the fixed price he is entitled to stick to that price. If the development is not selling well then he is silly to stick to a price that people wont buy at.

The only advice I can give is to buy in developments that are selling -they obviously are priced correctly.

Its hard to compare with pre-owned, unless they are only a few years old.

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I suppose it depends on how 'new' the new development is. There are alot of new developments that are actually 5-6 years old which are maybe building on phase 3,4 or 5 of the development, or certainly coming towards an end on the site.

In most cases like the above the developer will have already sold plenty of houses during the boom period at massively inflated prices with massive profits. This is essentially removing the urgent need for them to drop prices significantly to sell any remaining stock and is buying them time to wait and see what happens. They sit at the other side of the fence than most on here and cling on to every bit of hope that prices are going to go up again. They will also have less builders working on the sites as well so the developers overall overheads for wages etc will be less than what they were at peak (despite what some may say). I suppose the House price issue will have to dealt with by them when they do come to an end in these sites and need to move on elsewhere. They will have to make a decision to sell the house at a realistic level or leave it empty. Most will have passed on reductions in prices since the boom but very few have dropped to the level that they need to be at.

There is a new development near me , I tried to enter into negotiations with them earlier in the year to buy a house at which time there was about a dozen houses they were trying to shift ... they wouldn't budge a penny and tried to tell me that they believed the Prices they wanted to sell were value for money and that they could get the prices they were looking for them. Guess what ... 6 months later they still havent shifted them.

New developments arn't the be all and end all, yes the house is new but they generally make them with no storage space, small sq footage, no garage, a shoebox of a garden and with a block of apartments usually overlooking your back garden (just to remind you of how greedy they were getting - better to build up than outwards - more £'s for them). They will also charge you to 'trim the tree's' once a year in the development with a nice maintenance fee each month. There can be better value to have in the 2nd hand market and with the money you save you can always make an old home a new home!

Edited by tinbin

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I suppose it depends on how 'new' the new development is. There are alot of new developments that are actually 5-6 years old which are maybe building on phase 3,4 or 5 of the development, or certainly coming towards an end on the site.

In most cases like the above the developer will have already sold plenty of houses during the boom period at massively inflated prices with massive profits. This is essentially removing the urgent need for them to drop prices significantly to sell any remaining stock and is buying them time to wait and see what happens. They sit at the other side of the fence than most on here and cling on to every bit of hope that prices are going to go up again. They will also have less builders working on the sites as well so the developers overall overheads for wages etc will be less than what they were at peak (despite what some may say). I suppose the House price issue will have to dealt with by them when they do come to an end in these sites and need to move on elsewhere. They will have to make a decision to sell the house at a realistic level or leave it empty. Most will have passed on reductions in prices since the boom but very few have dropped to the level that they need to be at.

There is a new development near me , I tried to enter into negotiations with them earlier in the year to buy a house at which time there was about a dozen houses they were trying to shift ... they wouldn't budge a penny and tried to tell me that they believed the Prices they wanted to sell were value for money and that they could get the prices they were looking for them. Guess what ... 6 months later they still havent shifted them.

New developments arn't the be all and end all, yes the house is new but they generally make them with no storage space, small sq footage, no garage, a shoebox of a garden and with a block of apartments usually overlooking your back garden (just to remind you of how greedy they were getting - better to build up than outwards - more £'s for them). They will also charge you to 'trim the tree's' once a year in the development with a nice maintenance fee each month. There can be better value to have in the 2nd hand market and with the money you save you can always make an old home a new home!

I always advise to buy in the developments that are currently selling well, no matter when they started. If they are selling well they obviously have got it right.

New developments, built to the recent building control regulations will be a fraction to heat compared to a 30 year old house. Most reports point to the fact that the new builds led the way in price correction and it is the second hand houses that are slow to budge. going by that there should be better value in the new build, but this will differ from location to location.

If you are charged a management fee for a house it is likely to range from around £75 per an to £150 pa. It is to maintain parks etc that you part own. You wont have the benefit of that in older stock. It is something that most are happy to pay for. The choice is yours.

If this development is selling at 100 units a year, then it must be priced correctly.

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I always advise to buy in the developments that are currently selling well, no matter when they started. If they are selling well they obviously have got it right.

New developments, built to the recent building control regulations will be a fraction to heat compared to a 30 year old house. Most reports point to the fact that the new builds led the way in price correction and it is the second hand houses that are slow to budge. going by that there should be better value in the new build, but this will differ from location to location.

If you are charged a management fee for a house it is likely to range from around £75 per an to £150 pa. It is to maintain parks etc that you part own. You wont have the benefit of that in older stock. It is something that most are happy to pay for. The choice is yours.

If this development is selling at 100 units a year, then it must be priced correctly.

Im currently dealing with a guy building 7 x 3beds at the end of a small development that up until now is 12 x 4/5bed townhouses. Only 5 i think of the larger ones are sold. Still hasnt lowered asking prices (275k). Puts the 3beds on at 160k, but IMO only one of them is very desirbale as it has corner plot wth a bit of room and is semi detached in that it faces away from the main row of houses. The rest have little room, and the far end house is ridiculously squeezed in. He then increases the price to 165k on the best plot, instead of lowering the others. EA says it is 'FIXED PRICE' and he wont negotiate a penny.

The thing is, i get the impresion the builder is in no hurry to sell at all. Maybe thats what some of the other builders holding out for fixed prices are like also, they arent under much financial pressure for a quick sale. Eventually they will accept lower prices if the houses sit unsold for long enbough. But they could save themselves all that time and possibly get a higher price negotiating a year sooner by just being open to sensible offers and negotiation. I could go to what he is looking for, but i wont offer more than i think is a fair price, and also the fact that you could be living amongst an unfinished/or empty row of houses for quite a while after youd move in!

Edited by OptimusSubPrime

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Does opportunity cost not still exist in the real world.

Why hold out for an extra 5% in price for 1 year?

when you could sell for 5% less now and earn 5% interest in bank for 1 year and not have to pay bank 1-5% interest for a year

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Does opportunity cost not still exist in the real world.

Why hold out for an extra 5% in price for 1 year?

when you could sell for 5% less now and earn 5% interest in bank for 1 year and not have to pay bank 1-5% interest for a year

You are assuming that the developer has no debt and can lodge the full proceeds in a deposit a/c, which will pay him up to 10x base rate.

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Lagansider,

I agree on large apartment schemes this can be a big issue as there common areas, underground parking, lifts and electric gates to maintain, commonplace electric meters and overall insurance. All this can add up. However, in most housing developments the management fee is in the region of £75 to £150 per year and pays for the maintainance and insurance of the common open space. If the developer has taken up his shares on the undeveloped units and is paying his share then he is entitled to vote. Hover, the majority of developers dont get involved. They will break the management co down into phases and leave the running of it to the shareholders and the agent. If the shareholders wish to change the agent they can do so. The management company is working for them.

This is a benefit to any new development where you have common ownership of the public areas over and above the private land you own. The Management Co is a limited company and has insurance in place so no liability can fall back on you. I have had no problems with this kind of set up on well over 1,000 houses that employ it.

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  • 285 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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