Now They Want To Ration Petrol: Mps Back Token Scheme As Prices Are Set To Hit £8 A Gallon By The Summer

[MrFlibble]

Bring it on - I'd like to see how they are going to reduce the deficit with this barmy idea in operation.

[Blue Peter]

I think increasing prices sort of ration themselves!

People drive less in recessions!

Indeed. For something so basic as energy rationing by price is not so fair as giving each person an equal slice of the pie,

Peter.

[Hyperduck Quack Quack]

Oil is a finite resource, so one day in the distant future, as the pinch of demand outstripping supply really kicks in - say 20 years' time - we'll probably see rationing. But these days, rather than rationing it would make more sense to force people to use more economical cars, using 50 mpg as a threshold.

As we face the prospect of oil shortages in future decades, it will become increasingly anti-social to drive around in a gas guzzler, even if you can afford it, as you're wasting a valuable finite natural resouce just for the sake of having 2, 4 or more surplus cylinders in your engine and an impressive exhaust sound.

[winkie]

O well all is not lost.......will have to grow our own veg, shoot our own birds catch our own fish....chop our own wood and cycle to tesco for our bog rolls.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

To be honest, it is a bit harsh being taxed more because they trashed the Pound.

the pound isnt trashed yet, it can go alot lower, there was a another thread comparing inflation in the EU and US compared to uk, i'll repeat what i said on there, GBP is up on the euro and usd compared to 2 years ago, i think the main cause of uk inflation the last two years is tax, i cant see taxes being reduced anytime soon so even with a massive asset deflation i still think the uk will have inflation, its interesting to see the govt talk about a fuel neutraliser right at the top of a fib retrace in oil, please assume the bend over position

[winkie]

the pound isnt trashed yet, it can go alot lower, there was a another thread comparing inflation in the EU and US compared to uk, i'll repeat what i said on there, GBP is up on the euro and usd compared to 2 years ago, i think the main cause of uk inflation the last two years is tax, i cant see taxes being reduced anytime soon so even with a massive asset deflation i still think the uk will have inflation, its interesting to see the govt talk about a fuel neutraliser right at the top of a fib retrace in oil, please assume the bend over position

Fuel stabliliser was a good idea at the time....why the change of tact?.....fine to say something sensible while it suits...why the sudden back track?

Lies damn lies and statistics....or lies damn lies and governments.

[SarahBell]

First they rationed the education

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a student

Then they rationed the petrol

and I didn't speak out because I didn't drive

Then they rationed the healthcare

and I didn't speak out because I was not sick

Then they rationed the air

and I didn't speak out because I had none.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

Fuel stabliliser was a good idea at the time....why the change of tact?.....fine to say something sensible while it suits...why the sudden back track?

Lies damn lies and statistics....or lies damn lies and governments.

the easiest way to stabilise fuel would be reduce the 60% tax, its not rocket science, it could still be less than a quid if you didnt have to pay for uddins speculation, darlings 14th btl and camerons wisteria

[SarahBell]

From a friend

Friday 19:30 at Stanlow Refinery, Chesire 19:30 Jan 28th +29th 2011

This is your chance to make a difference, for too long now we have sat back and moaned about the petrol rip off. It has to stop, the british public can't afford to get to work!!! Stanlow Refinery 7:30pm bring a flask and some friends.

[rxe]

Plus, according to the scheme as described, instead of using up your tokens on running your car, you'll be using them on heat and power at home (OK, perhaps not so many of them, but even so).

You'd be surprised at the amount of energy used in heating and powering a home. Take a look at some boiler specs - they come in between 12kW central heating and 40kW.

Take a typical family car - 100 horsepower flat out. That's 75kW. Now, most of the time you're not driving with your foot to the floor, you're driving at quarter or half throttle. So maybe your car is using 30kW on average.

At a guess if you drive a "normal" car for about an hour a day, and you live in a "normal" house you're burning more to keep the house warm than you are in petrol.

Electricity is similar. My last bill (for a quarter) was 2000 kWh. So enough to power my 30kW car for 66 continuous hours.

Everyone focuses on cars as the environmental demon - homes are generally far, far worse.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

Well, I would argue the pound has been trashed even against a trashed thing like the dollar which oil is priced in! If I had access to charts a little further back I think we peaked at about $2.20 before collapsing all the way to about $1.30.

However, on two points we agree - it can go a lot further and secondly, the fuel duty itself leads to much greater price volatility because it is a multiple of price.

but crucially inflation in the US is near zero (ok real inflation may be about 3, but likewise 6 or 7 in the uk), that initial trashing of GBP in 08 should have been worked through by now and not be registering as higher inflation than the US theres no real excuse for inflation higher in the uk than US or Ezone other than tax

[winkie]

From a friend

Friday 19:30 at Stanlow Refinery, Chesire 19:30 Jan 28th +29th 2011

This is your chance to make a difference, for too long now we have sat back and moaned about the petrol rip off. It has to stop, the british public can't afford to get to work!!! Stanlow Refinery 7:30pm bring a flask and some friends.

.......more will find that they are better off not working, the young that live at home, car insurance keeps them off the road as well as petrol prices, the low paid, people that live in rural areas that have little or no public transport....but is not just petrol and diesel it is the obscene price of train season tickets.

They say they have to stop the carbon emissions What about china and their carbon emissions and other emerging economies....a white elephant.....what they really want is to stall the growth of the economy...kill it dead, they are going the right way about it.

[Patfig]

O well all is not lost.......will have to grow our own veg, shoot our own birds catch our own fish....chop our own wood and cycle to tesco for our bog rolls.

you could use your hand

[Stars]

Indeed. For something so basic as energy rationing by price is not so fair as giving each person an equal slice of the pie,

Peter.

The fuel that contains the energy is really the result of a production process which begins with natural resources. Not everyone contributes to this fuel creation process so a claim to equal right to the fuel is dubious. However, nobody produced those natural resources from which the fuel is made, so people's claim to equal right to the natural resources from which the fuel is drawn is not at all dubious. The rational way to deal with this is to tax people for the exclusive right to the natural resources from which fuel comes, and give the money to the excluded so they can buy their share of the fuel and then just allow market forces to asign the fuel.

The government (governments) doesn't want to do this, because it interferes with our culture's biggest power vector (natural resources)

[winkie]

you could use your hand

Yes, and my name is not sue.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

Yes, and my name is not sue.

surely you cant be serious

[winkie]

surely you cant be serious

I have my moments.

[rxe]

but is not just petrol and diesel it is the obscene price of train season tickets.

Very true. I drive a 20 mpg behemoth in and out of london fairly regularly - I'm usually towing a massive trailer which accounts for the piss poor consumption. Now, £80s worth of fuel gets me about 4 trips in and out. The equivalent cost in train tickets? £84 + whatever the cost of getting across london in the tube is these days.

[rxe]

When you consider the amount of time we spend in our cars compared to our homes, I think you will see that being at home uses less energy per hour than being in a car.

Per hour? Of course. However, most peoples homes are heated whether they are there or not, and the heating runs for 10 hours a day/might. Most people drive for about an hour a day, tops. Overall, more energy is used domestically than for all transport (which is what your charts show).

[Democorruptcy]

but crucially inflation in the US is near zero (ok real inflation may be about 3, but likewise 6 or 7 in the uk), that initial trashing of GBP in 08 should have been worked through by now and not be registering as higher inflation than the US theres no real excuse for inflation higher in the uk than US or Ezone other than tax

Do you think you might possibly be under estimating our retailers? There is a lot of talk about inflation and that gives them an excuse to raise prices and make more money.

Look at Next trading statement on 5th Jan:

We estimate that we lost £22m of full price sales as a result of the snow.

The outlook for 2011 is uncertain. The impact of Government cuts on consumer spending is still unclear and we have yet to fully understand the impact of rising retail selling prices on overall demand. We reconfirm that our own prices will be increasing by circa 8% as a result of higher input costs and the rise in VAT. Our best guess is that price rises will moderately suppress like for like sales, though we believe this will be offset by the addition of profitable new Retail space and continued growth of Directory’s online business."

They blame the snow on a £22m drop in expected sales (nothing to do with their prices being too high and going up another 8%). They don't yet understand the impact of rising prices on demand. But they aren't worried about profits as they are opening more stores. More stores to sell stuff they aren't sure there will be demand for due to rising prices?

Executive directors

S A Wolfson 2010 1,737,000 2009 831,000

C E Angelides 2010 980,000 2009 585,000

D W Keens 2010 936,000 2009 560,000

A J Varley 2010 789,000 2009 423,000

It's not just Next

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=517324&in_page_id=2

[rxe]

Honestly, those stupid "eco plugs" just annoy me. Why do people need to buy a 4 way with an infra red control when there is a perfectly good switch on the wall? Ditto those retarded "power monitor" things that glow red when you're using a lot of power. Yes, if you turn the cooker on, you use a lot of power. I do remember one idiot discovering that they had installed 1.5 kW of downlighters and saying "I had no idea they used so much power" - can't they bloody read the "50W" on the box?

Getting wound up about standby is also pretty daft - if things used an appreciable amount of power, they'd get hot. I think my telly uses 0.5W on standby, so even if I left it on all year (I don't) it would use 3.5 kWh, costing about 30p. The ROI on a 4 way adapter for £15 is pretty piss poor....

[@contradevian]

You'd be surprised at the amount of energy used in heating and powering a home. Take a look at some boiler specs - they come in between 12kW central heating and 40kW.

Take a typical family car - 100 horsepower flat out. That's 75kW. Now, most of the time you're not driving with your foot to the floor, you're driving at quarter or half throttle. So maybe your car is using 30kW on average.

At a guess if you drive a "normal" car for about an hour a day, and you live in a "normal" house you're burning more to keep the house warm than you are in petrol.

Electricity is similar. My last bill (for a quarter) was 2000 kWh. So enough to power my 30kW car for 66 continuous hours.

Everyone focuses on cars as the environmental demon - homes are generally far, far worse.

You don't need anywhere near that power to run a car at commute speeds. My old flat twin Citroen Visa (652cc 35 bhp) equated to 26 kw and only then flat out, where it would scrape 70 mph on the motorway (on the flat).

A small, lightweight commuting electric car could suffice with perhaps less than 10kw.

I believe you require four times the power to double the speed (though rolling resistance and aerodynamics have to be taking into account, though less important at low speeds). So to motor at say 35mph, the visa would only be using 6.5 kw (I think).

Therefore most people wouldn't "see" the extra fuel hike if they dropped 10-20 mph or so (on the motorways). I can remember during a fuel crisis they did drop motorways down to 50 or 55 mph as an emergency measure.

Also they don't proper economical, considerate driving anymore. Its all foot to the floor, screw you, I;m entitled and try and kill as many cyclists as possible.

[dubsie]

What about peoples freedom, how on earth are people meant to get away for the weekend or go on their annual leave. While I can completely understand that we all need to cut back I don't think rationing fuel is fair.

Some people have no choice but to use their car for work, trains and buses just simply are not available to some people.

Petrol is hitting record levels because its pricing is left to speculators, god help us when we realise that food and water is running out.

[homeless]

Some would call it big brother but I use it to manage my time, to bill customers with and to make sure I dont spend too much time on here.

I'm still debating whether to let the Govt have it for free on condition they publish the results for the public to see as a way to reduce our tax take by making some parts of the public sector more efficient.

You also dont need to have website blocking software as this will show how long people have spent on websites, even through proxy servers to avoid internet blocking, spending time playing solitaire or chatting on email.

its a keylogger with a database function isint it?

[phead]

Getting wound up about standby is also pretty daft - if things used an appreciable amount of power, they'd get hot. I think my telly uses 0.5W on standby, so even if I left it on all year (I don't) it would use 3.5 kWh, costing about 30p. The ROI on a 4 way adapter for £15 is pretty piss poor....

"I think my telly uses 0.5W on standby", You think?. I *know* mine uses 20W (manufacturers figure) , the other av items less. The PC+bits also uses quite a quite a high number. I have to have two 10 ways power adapters for them anyway, so switching off at night, when I'm not in is just free money.