OnionTerror Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349570/Arctic-freeze-created-6ft-pothole-flipped-familys-Range-Rover.html Councils in England will struggle to repair potholes due to a £165million shortfall in funding, the Local Government Association warned. I don't know how you could miss a dirty great big pothole such as this one, but remind me, how much do we spend on road fund license & fuel tax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 When you drive too fast or aren't paying attention. How flipping fast were they going? "The 4x4 was propelled into the air and landed on its roof in a nearby field but the trio only received minor wounds." Some lads died near us when their car flipped over and hit a lamp post. It's not a mad bend or anything so one has to assume either they had a magic car or were driving too fast. Oldham for all it's faults had a pot hole hotline with a pro-active team (a van full of tarmac and two blokes) who'd go and attend to potholes if you rang them in. They were speedy too! http://www.fillthathole.org.uk/ is useful as it keeps track of how long they take to get done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I don't know how you could miss a dirty great big pothole such as this one, but remind me, how much do we spend on road fund license & fuel tax? There are pot holes like that all over the M62 and the A56 going into Manchester. My motorbike wheels have lots of dings from these things as they are unavoidable. They often go across the entire road or you have to choose between one pot hole over the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imp Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Well, if you will use an off road vehicle on the road, what do you expect to happen. I'm sure there will have been thousands of cars designed to be driven on the roads which have passed over that pot hole without incident, but if you take a Range Rover out of its natural environment, what do you expect to happen? 'If we hadn't been in a big 4x4 we could have been killed,' she told the Daily Express. I'm sure I read a report somewhere suggesting the occupants of 4x4s were more likely to be injured than other cars, not because they receive worse injuries for the same crash, but because they were significantly more likely to be involved in a crash, possibly due to their poor road handling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I'm sure I read a report somewhere suggesting the occupants of 4x4s were more likely to be injured than other cars, not because they receive worse injuries for the same crash, but because they were significantly more likely to be involved in a crash, possibly due to their poor road handling. Most cars handle badly anyway, I'd think it is more a case of risk compensation... They think they are indestructable thus drive with less regard. I've seen this in bikers who turn up in a new £1000 arleness suit and expensive Arai helmet. Which is silly because textiles are better for the road leather slides which is ok for the track since there is nothing to run over you. Textile codura and similar things bite into the road making you roll but stopping you much faster so hopefully you don't go into the other lane and get pancaked by a car. They take much bigger risks because of the percieved protection. Which is quite silly because biker clothing offers close to bog all protection and survival/injry depends mostly on luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 'If we hadn't been in a big 4x4 we could have been killed,' she told the Daily Express. If your car hadnt been a 4x4 it probably wouldnt have flipped over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 'If we hadn't been in a big 4x4 we could have been killed,' she told the Daily Express. If your car hadnt been a 4x4 it probably wouldnt have flipped over. Oh I dunno, about 12 years back I very nearly flipped a mazda 323. It was on a 50 road. A bloke overtook coming the other way leaving me no room. SO I aimed for the kerb, although I didn't have a handy protractor with me at the time I managed to get it about 30-50 degrees on one side as the kerb sort of ramped up a bit. I thought whoa! And Whoa! again when I saw the repair bill for the broken suspension link! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellow Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Has anyone else noticed that on the rare occasion they do bother to 'fix' a pothole, they seem to just pour tarmac on top of it, leaving a mound of tarmac sticking out of the road which is almost as bad to drive over as the pothole it 'fixed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Well, if you will use an off road vehicle on the road, what do you expect to happen. I'm sure there will have been thousands of cars designed to be driven on the roads which have passed over that pot hole without incident, but if you take a Range Rover out of its natural environment, what do you expect to happen? I'm pretty sure most cars hitting that at national speed limits would suffer pretty bad damage. Maybe not roll over, but I can't imagine it not being a write off. Certainly don't reckon mine would make it. I think the 4x4 thing you are looking for is 'rollover' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 At night even huge potholes can be difficult to see. Even with lights on. Edinburgh potholes are horrendous. Worst in Scotland (AA) and more than likely the worst in the UK. They are ridiculous. Heard about some place down South - where last year they decided to fix the pot holes properly. Rather than doing just the usual patch up job. Spent a lot in the short term but I think this year they have saved lots on repairs. Cant remember what town it was though. Wish everyone else would follow suit. We are so guilty of short term thinking in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingobob777 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 At night even huge potholes can be difficult to see. Even with lights on. Edinburgh potholes are horrendous. Worst in Scotland (AA) and more than likely the worst in the UK. They are ridiculous. Heard about some place down South - where last year they decided to fix the pot holes properly. Rather than doing just the usual patch up job. Spent a lot in the short term but I think this year they have saved lots on repairs. Cant remember what town it was though. Wish everyone else would follow suit. We are so guilty of short term thinking in this country. Can't be as bad as Glasgow!! As already said, method of repair involves some tar, this usually lasts 2 months max. I lost 3 tyres due to them last winter, this year I just drive slower. I submitted a claim to the council for first one for £90, jist of the answers was they only need to inspect every 3months, if no one reports a pothole in the intervening period they aren't liable. Lot of ********, I did however submit 3 freedom of information requests for evidence of inspections etc, so someone had to waste several hours doing it, made me feel a bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Can't be as bad as Glasgow!! As already said, method of repair involves some tar, this usually lasts 2 months max. I lost 3 tyres due to them last winter, this year I just drive slower. I submitted a claim to the council for first one for £90, jist of the answers was they only need to inspect every 3months, if no one reports a pothole in the intervening period they aren't liable. Lot of ********, I did however submit 3 freedom of information requests for evidence of inspections etc, so someone had to waste several hours doing it, made me feel a bit better. Yep - come through if you dont believe it !! It is horrendous. We are officially the worst in the entire UK. Story A survey by the UK's largest motoring organisation found Scotland's roads were the worst in the UK for potholes, road repairs and blocked drains. The Capital was ranked bottom of the league overall in Scotland in the survey which covered 12 issues, ranging from dog fouling to roadworks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkil Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I don't know how you could miss a dirty great big pothole such as this one, but remind me, how much do we spend on road fund license & fuel tax? I don't know about fuel taxes but you spend £0 on road fund licence, it was abolished in the 1930s - it's vehicle excise duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 I don't know about fuel taxes but you spend £0 on road fund licence, it was abolished in the 1930s - it's vehicle excise duty. There's always someone whose got to be pernickity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulu Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 At night even huge potholes can be difficult to see. Even with lights on. Edinburgh potholes are horrendous. Worst in Scotland (AA) and more than likely the worst in the UK. They are ridiculous. Heard about some place down South - where last year they decided to fix the pot holes properly. Rather than doing just the usual patch up job. Spent a lot in the short term but I think this year they have saved lots on repairs. Cant remember what town it was though. Wish everyone else would follow suit. We are so guilty of short term thinking in this country. I have just been driving my parents around when they came up for a visit. They were really quite shocked about the state of some of the roads across Edinburgh, Leith Walk especially. The comparison was to a knackered old farm track. It is not just repairs that are needed across town but full scale resurfacing, if they dont do it soon we will be in an even bigger mess. Though I am sure at the heart of the issue is the council and their anti-car campaign which has been put into full force ever since the road toll idea was rejected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I have just been driving my parents around when they came up for a visit. They were really quite shocked about the state of some of the roads across Edinburgh, Leith Walk especially. The comparison was to a knackered old farm track. It is not just repairs that are needed across town but full scale resurfacing, if they dont do it soon we will be in an even bigger mess. Though I am sure at the heart of the issue is the council and their anti-car campaign which has been put into full force ever since the road toll idea was rejected. Yep the longer they leave it the worse it will get. And they all use this excuse about the weather that is a pile of nonsense. If the roads are in good nick to start with they have very few problems when it comes to snow, ice, gritting and all. One lucky road near me was fullly resurfaced last year. This year it does not have one mark on it. And it has had exactly the same snow, ice and rest of it that the shocking ones do. Most Asian countries I have been to have better roads than Edinburgh. Yet we are supposed to be the 'developed' ones !! What a joke. Council clearly don't give a toss about the roads. Been spending millions for years on 'traffic management' nonsense like speed bumps. Whilst leaving the roads to get worse and worse. The next car I plan to get will be some sort of raised wheelbas 4X4 estate. For the simple reason of the roads being so shit !! I don't know how people cope here who have lowered suspension cars ?! Must be in the garage almost non stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Most Asian countries I have been to have better roads than Edinburgh. Yet we are supposed to be the 'developed' ones !! What a joke. Council clearly don't give a toss about the roads. Been spending millions for years on 'traffic management' nonsense like speed bumps. Whilst leaving the roads to get worse and worse. Don't you remember from 2008 or 2009? A big wig of the labour party said to save on fuel and to slow people down all road maintainance should effectively cease... Looks like it's official policy these days. You are on the ball about other countries though. Siberia has some pretty good roads for 1000s of miles. All of the federal highways are well maintained. The non federal ones are not.... funny thing is the grass verges through the length of russia are well kept! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I knew it wasn't abnormal to feel so scared about the day my son gets his licence. Put him on a motorbike for 6 months then. £150 buys you a CBT. £500 buys you a 125cc learner legal bike. Bikers to survive develop excellent observation skills and generally because grip = life know what the road can take.. Those that don't and push it too hard are cleansed out of the gene pool pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Heh I'd note my dad (who I fell out with for a long time) was pretty shocked at CNY about a decade ago when I turned up on a 130bhp missile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Put him on a motorbike for 6 months then. £150 buys you a CBT. £500 buys you a 125cc learner legal bike. Bikers to survive develop excellent observation skills and generally because grip = life know what the road can take.. Those that don't and push it too hard are cleansed out of the gene pool pretty quickly. Not sure that he's hugely keen on the genetic cleansing part of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I'd consider some sort of GPS tracking system fitted to the car that you can access to monitor their activities. The tracker doesnt lie so if you are able to see what they have been upto that is often enough of a deterent to curb some but not all bad behaviour. It will also allow him to use it as an excuse not to do something iffy that he might previously have been tempted to do, just so as not to lose face with his mates. In that respect it sort of trumps peer pressure. eight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkman Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I'm sure I read a report somewhere suggesting the occupants of 4x4s were more likely to be injured than other cars, not because they receive worse injuries for the same crash, but because they were significantly more likely to be involved in a crash, possibly due to their poor road handling. Occupants of 4x4 vehicles are also raised higher above ground level. So when it does flip I imagine the sideways impact is worse (from momentum etc). Personally if I saw a large pothole near my home I'd be tempted to fill it with rubble and whatever else. A temporary fix is better than none. It's a shame most people can be arsed to be pro-active. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prescience Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Coupla points. The vehicle was not a Range Rover, per se: it was a Freelander: which hardly qualifies as "A big 4X4": as the young woman injured stated to the Daily Wail. Furthermore, the Freelanders are well noted for lack of stability: when towing caravans they rotate with boring monotony. If you cannot see a large pothole some distance away (In time to take some evading action), then you ought not to be driving. Blind bend? OK: so what happens if there is an HGV stalled in the middle of the road? Cars full of girlies tend to engage in what they specialise in: gum bumping. IMHO a majority of car drivers drive far too fast for their own ability; rarely actually look ahead with clear focus (Other than the bumper immediately in front of 'em) and additionally drive too fast for their vehicle's capability. Cars normally roll because they slide offline and a front wheel or both front and rear wheel on one side collides with a reasonably high kerb: sideways G force translates from slide into instant rotation. I've slid all sorts of vehicles, purposefully: including a 7 ton Ford Tipper once! None rolled over: no reason for them to. The only cars notorious for rolling over were, years back, Renault Dauphines, Triumph Heralds and Spitfires and one or two others with Swing Axle rear suspenders. And the right tyres: such as early Michelin X Radials. Dauphines had these as standard. What happened was the car when cornering, briskly would load the outside swing axle (i.e. outside to the radius of the corner: right hand bend: left hand side and visa versa); the suspension would "Jack" and the car simply pivot around the centre of the swing axle, until it flipped. So to drive a Herald (e.g.) fast, one had to throw it slightly sideways, before entering the bend (Which squashed the swing axle, spring and shocker) and the cornering force would simply keep the suspension axle compressed. Cars do not suddenly roll for no reason. The reason the Freelander rolls is the centre of gravity is far too high; and the rear suspension badly designed. The early Mercedes A12 suffered precisely the same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_ichikawa Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Occupants of 4x4 vehicles are also raised higher above ground level. So when it does flip I imagine the sideways impact is worse (from momentum etc). Personally if I saw a large pothole near my home I'd be tempted to fill it with rubble and whatever else. A temporary fix is better than none. It's a shame most people can be arsed to be pro-active. Erm you realise that fixing pot holes yourself is illegal right? I still remember the story from a couple years back a couple of old men repaird them properly and the council told them to stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Put him on a motorbike for 6 months then. £150 buys you a CBT. £500 buys you a 125cc learner legal bike. Bikers to survive develop excellent observation skills and generally because grip = life know what the road can take.. Those that don't and push it too hard are cleansed out of the gene pool pretty quickly. Absolutely...when I was 16, I started off on a 50cc...it was bored out, so you could go roughly 45mph (with a tailwind behind you)...I believe that its harder to get away with that nowadays, so now they're restricted to 30mph..which can be dangerous IMHO....At least with a 125, you can keep up with the rest of the traffic flow.. On a bike, you certainly become more road aware and you do sharpen up your observational skills. Potholes can be deadly for a bike rider, along with wet drain covers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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