Bob Loblaw Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Why thank you Sir I especially enjoyed the way my statement that employers ignore CV's from over qualified candidates due to the perception of it being a temporary job for the worker was soundly ignored in favour of some more delicious xenophobia earlier. Time for bed though. So an employer would assume that a foreigner was in it for the long term? Does not make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 ..........the US is the biggest economy in the world they are ALL immigrants...... Look what happened to the original residents of the US Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NW11 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 There's bound to be sound reasons why, if it is true (big if - what's the sources?) that jobs are going to immigrants. Just to add my two pence to this thread again, my last company is one of the biggest US tech companies on the planet. Its truly a multi billion dollar organisation. When they came here they brought along all of their American execs, workers, even their janitor. In addition came a whole load of Indian techies. It was really weird as an English guy I was in the minority here - this is in Central London! This organisation uses London as its base to conduct is European activities. If the governement shut out immigration they would transfer their entire business to Paris or Berlin and with that would go any UK taxes it pays, the supporting businesses and their staff and the fact that the landlord of out building would be missing out of £2million per year for the rental lease. That is the reality. A business that pays tax and creates employment has the perogative to conduct it anywhere and with anyone and staff as it chooses. The government will never curb immigration to satisfy a few BNP country bumpkins who live off the spoils of the State. This is an American Organisation, using Indian tech, doing business in France, Germany, Spain Italy and does all this business in London. That is the beauty of London. The US is enterprising, the indians are great cheap service providers, the Chinese make cheap goods and the UK is one of the world's premier locations for conducting business. That's all we are, a piece of land, territory, we have very little else that gives us the competitive edge. If any anti-immigrants want to come around and say goodbye to all that income tax and replace it with their own potato harvesting industry then please go ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexw Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Do you have a job???? It sounds like you dont have a job?? is this because there are certain jobs that you see as being below you??? I know if I was to be made unemployed, I would take any job, and still pay my taxes, but I dont think its fair that that I should pay My taxes to subsidise some body who is too lazy to try to do something. Uggh what a stupid post, i attempt to show why so many employers will take a foreign worker in preference to a UK one in a not nice way and you seem to say its the uk citizens fault. I can literally give pages and pages of examples here are just a few http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11663703 http://www.petersfieldpost.co.uk/news/worker_treated_worse_than_animal_1_2320366 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/aug/30/migrant-workers-modern-day-slavery http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1257952/Only-Poles-need-apply-Factor-bars-Britons-highlights-growing-market-cheap-migrant-labour.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/dec/02/migrant-workers-care-older-people Perhaps you can get over your self-righteous dogma/bias but i doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayphil Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Uggh what a stupid post, i attempt to show why so many employers will take a foreign worker in preference to a UK one in a not nice way and you seem to say its the uk citizens fault. I can literally give pages and pages of examples here are just a few http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11663703 http://www.petersfie...nimal_1_2320366 http://www.guardian....ern-day-slavery http://www.dailymail...ant-labour.html http://www.guardian....re-older-people Perhaps you can get over your self-righteous dogma/bias but i doubt it. Thats great, This could be a failing in me, But when I really think about my personal circumstances, I lost a job once, and actually took quite a painful route out of it, a few years later im back on track, I realise there is no point wasting time trying to change such a macro economic problems from my armchair, im sure im like most people, I can see that there is a problem, one that isnt going to go away in the next ten years minimum. Do you honestly think though you will make a blind bit of difference to the overall picture by complaining about it, or should you just get on with it?? and try to find a way. Now if you think that im self righteous because I think that the benefits are for people with real tough problems, and not for capable fit men between the ages of say 18 to 60. then mabye i am self righteous, One of the main reasons I was quite happy to leave the UK was because I hated paying taxes, for guys the same age as me to be able to sit in a pub all day, making there bits on the side by dealing whatever, without a care in the world, not have to worry about the rent, etc and it made me angry. still does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tahoma Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Encouraging mass immigration when we have 20% youth unemployment is not a good idea. Meanwhile the media report the fact that in the under-16 age category whites are minority in Birmingham like it is fantastic news. Are there any other examples in history of a people being so hellbent on celebrating their own demise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexw Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Thats great, This could be a failing in me, But when I really think about my personal circumstances, I lost a job once, and actually took quite a painful route out of it, a few years later im back on track, I realise there is no point wasting time trying to change such a macro economic problems from my armchair, im sure im like most people, I can see that there is a problem, one that isnt going to go away in the next ten years minimum. Do you honestly think though you will make a blind bit of difference to the overall picture by complaining about it, or should you just get on with it?? and try to find a way. Now if you think that im self righteous because I think that the benefits are for people with real tough problems, and not for capable fit men between the ages of say 18 to 60. then mabye i am self righteous, One of the main reasons I was quite happy to leave the UK was because I hated paying taxes, for guys the same age as me to be able to sit in a pub all day, making there bits on the side by dealing whatever, without a care in the world, not have to worry about the rent, etc and it made me angry. still does. Except if you do nothing then nothing will change. What would the UK be like if all the various groups that have suffered negatively unjustly at the hands of others had said 'oh well thats our lot in life lets just get on with it' I'm not sure its these individuals who are to blame. The world over from places with low social benefits to those with high, are all sufferring from mass unemployment problems. The US, UK, france, germany, italy, japan, etc, etc have suffered from growing unemployment over the past 30 odd years. A lot of which has been masked by government schemes & the credit boom (we have seen these all too well in the uk). I can't believe that mass laziness syndrome has somehow infected dozens of countries. Thus blaming the unemployed or other nonsensical factors (e.g. lack of skills, i kid you not this argument is also used in places like nigeria and the philippines) for systemic issues will do nothing to get the unemployed back into work. Indeed, it seems an ideal way to misdirect attention from whether it might be our economic system that is the issue and thus the hard work of economic reform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-hate-scumlords Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) This is exactly like those emigrants who work for Saudi Oil companies compared to the wages on offer in the West, bottom line is they get paid more (than in their home country) although I have heard anecdotal evidence from a guy whose been working for the Saudi's (for 20 years) that they had attempted to recruit more educated personnel from the East, but it appeared (in this example anyway), that they aren't up to the mark so they are staying with Westerners. Your friends correct, their arent many Indians Phillipinos working in managerial or equivilant positions in Saudi as imho the Saudis are less likely to take orders from them and there organisational skills are somewhat lacking ... Plus it looks better for a company to have a few token whiteys wandering around as at the end of the day its an industry thats been created by us in its current form in the last 60 years or so and we have the knowledge. The only reason INdians and Phillipinos are there doing manual work is they work like slaves and are treat worse then animals, that and the fact theyre paid 700USD PCM for 70 hour weeks. .. that and the fact Saudi workers need a day off a week sick and need to pray whenever they feel like it. The only reason immigrants are here in Blighty is because theyre cheap labour, imho most people apart from Saudis work hard just some like the English expect to be treat fairly by their employer ... nothing wrong with that im sure youll all agree. Edited January 22, 2011 by I-hate-scumlords Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Haven't we effectively indoctrinated our young this past decade or so that the kind of low paid work we are discussing is the very touchstone of failure? Haven't we threatened them that if they fail to study and get educated this is the future that awaits them? Haven't we allowed housing costs to escalate to the point where many of these jobs do not offer a living wage? Or any hope of an independant existence? Haven't we allowed free overseas access to our labour market as part of a policy of 'flexible labour' precisely to keep wages low? So now, when our educated young choose not to take the jobs we told them were degrading, choose not to work for sums that are not even a living wage in our society, choose to beleive that they are better than that- because we told them that is what they must be. Is anyone really surprised that they choose not to join the ranks of the exploited and demeaned? Maybe if we had a little more respect in the first place for those jobs and the people that did them and as a society demanded those jobs at least paid a living wage, we might not have this problem. We have told the bulk of a generation that their destiny was to be a 'knowledge worker' in the shiny new globalised economy- that turns out to be a lie. The truth is that we have chosen to sell our children's future's down the river for short term profit and the desire of big business to have access to 'flexible labour'- which is simply a euphemism for poorly paid disposable employees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Tell me, what's your recent experience of looking for a job in this current climate where you are up against economic immigrants who'll do the job cheaper than you? BTW you've still not owned up or even corrected me, as to which papers you read. Edit: Clarity. I normally wouldn't answer a post by a clear bigot, but what the hell - there's five minutes before MOTD and I can listen to another lazy fool in Hansen bang on about 'pace'. Plenty of experience finding a job in this climate - and it's no problem for me as I'm capable of holding my own. And if I couldn't find a job, I'd not be worries as I've plenty of other skills that allow me to provide for myself on the side. Papers - I read zerohedge, Max Keiser, Bloomberg, House Price crash and whatever other information sources I feel are presenting interesting information. But I don't believe what I read blindly, I think about it and decide for myself. I wouldn't p*ss on a guardian or indeed a BBC journalist if he's on fire as they are full of idiots with their own agendas too. I'm not left wing, I'm not right wing. I make my own mind up from what I see of the world. I don't blame anyone else for my failings, and accept when I'm wrong. You have no idea. As I've already stated, I do not agree with uncontrolled immigartion. All I said was if a job requires two languages, then the person who has them has a better CV . F**k me you really are thick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) Oh and by the way as I alluded to in one of my firsts posts, if I was an employer and a foreign person and a british person applied for a job with *exactly* the same qualifications, I'd employ the British worker every time. When I wouldn't would be if the foreign worker is better qualified for the job. WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT TO GET YOU IDIOT??!!!!! Edited January 22, 2011 by Frugal Git Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northwestsmith2 Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Migrants according to the ECHR report have a very different view on life compared to a UK national. Jobs are temporary, exchange rates compensate, the bonus is learning a language and don't get caught up in long term thinking. You will be out of this in the long term. Or You may be working picking potatoes, qualified as a nurse but at least you don't have to spend the rest of your life in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Oh and by the way as I alluded to in one of my firsts posts, if I was an employer and a foreign person and a british person applied for a job with *exactly* the same qualifications, I'd employ the British worker every time. When I wouldn't would be if the foreign worker is better qualified for the job. WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT TO GET YOU IDIOT??!!!!! But many employ foreign workers as they are easy to exploit not because they are better qualified or work harder by virtue . If anyone has showed they are an idiot on this thread it is you and not the poster that you answered and you still did not give proper answers to his question , which was your experiences of looking for work now ? don't just say you have give details when were you last unemployed ? where did you obtain work ? what work ? ect ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 But many employ foreign workers as they are easy to exploit not because they are better qualified or work harder by virtue . If anyone has showed they are an idiot on this thread it is you and not the poster that you answered and you still did not give proper answers to his question , which was your experiences of looking for work now ? don't just say you have give details when were you last unemployed ? where did you obtain work ? what work ? ect ect. I'm not giving away details. All I'll say is recently, on both sides (i also interview for jobs on behalf of my current employer occasionally). I'm also fortunate enough to have confidence in interview situations, and the lucky to have the experience of to back it up. Thus, I generally get offered a job if I go for it. Anyway, since I've been there, we've made plenty of positions available, and generally filled them with British workers. The only time we didn't was, as it happens, when the person hired had direct experience of a foreign market which would be useful. That person was French. The area was the tech sector. The only idiot is him. I've no problem with you - you just seem to be misguided, whereas he's (bulltrraderpt) clearly got an unseemly agenda which you're seemingly unable to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 The only idiot is him. I've no problem with you - you just seem to be misguided, whereas he's (bulltrraderpt) clearly got an unseemly agenda which you're seemingly unable to see. Your the misguided one if you think mass immigration at a time of high unemployment is not having a detrimental affect on our Nation . A post on one of the topics recently made a point when answering a question about employing from abroad due to skill shortages . He said with a population of 60+ million in 99.99% of cases we should be able to fill jobs from within . Untill people realize this and act upon it we are heading in ever decreasing circles where our own host population is concerned and this is not going to end well. Training our own might be more expensive in the short term but will have longer term benefits to the whole country , but a major problem of companies in this country and the govenment is that they only look at the short term while it is the disenfranchised that bear the long term down side of this policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie The Tramp Returns Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 The problems with this country became greatly enhanced when from 1st January 2004 being the day when hordes of cheap labour was allowed to enter the UK without restriction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Your the misguided one if you think mass immigration at a time of high unemployment is not having a detrimental affect on our Nation . A post on one of the topics recently made a point when answering a question about employing from abroad due to skill shortages . He said with a population of 60+ million in 99.99% of cases we should be able to fill jobs from within . Untill people realize this and act upon it we are heading in ever decreasing circles where our own host population is concerned and this is not going to end well. Training our own might be more expensive in the short term but will have longer term benefits to the whole country , but a major problem of companies in this country and the govenment is that they only look at the short term while it is the disenfranchised that bear the long term down side of this policy. I've said 100 times I don't agree with mass immigration. I've said I'd employ british workers over foreign workers if they have the same qualifications I merely said that filling a hypothetical job that requires a foreign language with someone who speaks it rather than someone who doesn't is common sense, and yet you continue to want to argue I cannot argue with an idiot any longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I've said 100 times I don't agree with mass immigration. I've said I'd employ british workers over foreign workers if they have the same qualifications I merely said that filling a hypothetical job that requires a foreign language with someone who speaks it rather than someone who doesn't is common sense, and yet you continue to want to argue I cannot argue with an idiot any longer. So thats 2 idiots now accoriding to you lol . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 So thats 2 idiots now accoriding to you lol . Indeed. Congratulations - your final post relegated you to being described as such too. You kept on accusing me of believing in something (uncontrolled immigration) that I had explicitly stated I didn't. Thus I decided I'd misjudged you all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Indeed. Congratulations - your final post relegated you to being described as such too. You kept on accusing me of believing in something (uncontrolled immigration) that I had explicitly stated I didn't. Thus I decided I'd misjudged you all along. Read back through your posts as they condoned it . Your responses to people including me such as" Victim mentality" and blame to people who were affected by it does not show that you do not believe in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delmar Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Quite simple Look at the young generation they have nothing , no job prospects no hope of buying a house or even renting a house at a price they can afford . The student riots are just the start . Young men are at their strongest and most aggresive stage in life in their 20's , the biggest carming influence for them is getting married and having a family . No job no house no wife no family . Let things carry on for another few years and see the fall out when they realize ( well they are realizing now ) that they have nothing and nothing to lose and see what happens. There is no carrott for them to grow up settle down and join society . In the past people would moan in the pub and talk big,they then went home and back to work the next day. Today the internet and mobil phone will enable them to do something about their situation as they can organise instead of just moaning down the pub. All respect is now being lost especailly respect of govenments and bankers , institutions that were looked upto in the past by their parents are now being found out for what they really are and the next generation is not going to sit back on dole money being told they are not good enough but a person from Poland can have a job. Have worked in manufacuring for a lot of my life and met some quite hard men in those jobs would not like to have seen some of them idle with no future , their kids will be . +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Read back through your posts as they condoned it . Your responses to people including me such as" Victim mentality" and blame to people who were affected by it does not show that you do not believe in it. Yup, I was accusing people who were moaning about things that were within their control to change, but which they didn't wish to of having a victim mentality. I never, ever condoned uncontrolled immigration, explicitly or implicitly. Interesting that the posters who agreed with what I said are those who seem to have taken control of their own life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) Interesting that the posters who agreed with what I said are those who seem to have taken control of their own life. A lot of the posters who have dissagreed with what you have said have also taken control of their lives ( including me ) however having taken control of our lives does not cloud our judgement when we see how immigration saturation is having a detrimental affect on people in our society and has impacted on us and can/will impact on us in the future. Edited January 23, 2011 by miko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frugal Git Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) A lot of the posters who have dissagreed with what you have said have also taken control of their lives ( including me ) however having taken control of our lives does not cloud our judgement when we see how immigration saturation is having a detrimental affect on people in our society and has impacted on us and can/will impact on us in the future. I still don't understand how what I said can be disagreed with by anyone with a modicum of sanity, common sense or rationality. Let's flesh out this hypothetical job further. It's a translation service from english to french. Three almost identically qualified CV's come in: a - An english person who doesn't speak french b - An english person who does speak fluent french c - A french person who speaks fluent english. Who do I choose to hire. I'd choose to hire 'b', but can you seriously tell me I should hire 'a' over 'c'? If so, good luck running a business. edit - unwanted smiley Edited January 23, 2011 by Frugal Git Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miko Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I still don't understand how what I said can be disagreed with by anyone with a modicum of sanity, common sense or rationality. Let's flesh out this hypothetical job further. It's a translation service from english to french. Three almost identically qualified CV's come in: a - An english person who doesn't speak french b - An english person who does speak fluent french c - A french person who speaks fluent english. Who do I choose to hire. I'd choose to hire 'b', but can you seriously tell me I should hire 'a' over 'c'? If so, good luck running a business. edit - unwanted smiley The reason for mass immigration was to keep wages down in the lower levels of the job market not for jobs requiring people with language skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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