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Si1

Property Purchases And Upgrades By Members Of My Family - Terrible Timing

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this is quite scary, on one side of my family, dominated by a large portion of emotional thinking (lot of long term public sector employees in fact), my cousins on that side, and my brother, with significant help from parental life savings for deposits, have made the following house price purchases and upgrades (reference this against the HPC graph - http://www.housepric...house-price.php :

Cousin 1: bought first house 1988, upsized end 2003

Cousin 2: bought regional city centre apartment (with parents' massive multi-5 figure deposit of course) before promptly moving to another city and renting it out as a canny investment (sic), 2005

Brother: Bought house end-2004, waited for recent 2010/2011 house price bounce/peak to upsize

Me: wanted to buy 2001, no help, student loans and car finance too much so decided against it as money would have been tight, compounded by utter utter patronising discouragement from family (including brother)

this is just house price bubble mentality personified, chasing the herd - the losses of family wealth are buttock-squelching, little IQ behind the decisions

Edited by Si1

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this is quite scary, on one side of my family, dominated by a large portion of emotional thinking (lot of long term public sector employees in fact), my cousins on that side, and my brother, with significant help from parental life savings for deposits, have made the following house price purchases and upgrades (reference this against the HPC graph - http://www.housepric...house-price.php :

Cousin 1: bought first house 1988, upsized end 2003

Cousin 2: bought regional city centre apartment (with parents' massive multi-5 figure deposit of course) before promptly moving to another city and renting it out as a canny investment (sic), 2005

Brother: Bought house end-2004, waited for recent 2010/2011 house price bounce/peak to upsize

Me: wanted to buy 2001, no help, student loans and car finance too much so decided against it as money would have been tight, compounded by utter utter patronising discouragement from family (including brother)

this is just house price bubble mentality personified, chasing the herd - the losses of family wealth are buttock-squelching, little IQ behind the decisions

Is Cousin 1 happy in his home? If so what's the problem? Upsizing after 15 years is hardly extravagant is it?

Ditto your brother, is he actually happy in his home?

Why do you assume that anyone wanting a new house is chasing the herd, Cousin 1 certainly won't have lost anything?

They all probably think you're a twit for sitting about waiting for a 40% crash in prices.

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Why do you assume that anyone wanting a new house is chasing the herd, Cousin 1 certainly won't have lost anything?

I would assume, being a first cousin, he has a pretty good idea of their mind set.

Given your apparent rosey/contrarian prognosis for housing at the current time shouldn't you be busy snapping up some bargains? :unsure:

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Is Cousin 1 happy in his home? If so what's the problem? Upsizing after 15 years is hardly extravagant is it?

Ditto your brother, is he actually happy in his home?

tight for cash and have to work hard to make ends meet, cousin 1 nearly had a divorce over it as they never seem to have much money and he has to spend so much time at work

Why do you assume that anyone wanting a new house is chasing the herd, Cousin 1 certainly won't have lost anything?

(1) I don't, it's in the timing, have you looked at the chart? (2) actually yes he has, a h*ll of a lot of money

They all probably think you're a twit for sitting about waiting for a 40% crash in prices.

oh god you're one of them aren't you, categorically innumerate, I'm surrounded by them...

Edited by Si1

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tight for cash and have to work hard to make ends meet, cousin 1 nearly had a divorce over it as they never seem to have much money and he has to spend so much time at work

(1) I don't, it's in the timing, have you looked at the chart? (2) actually yes he has, a h*ll of a lot of money

oh god you're one of them aren't you, categorically innumerate, I'm surrounded by them...

Has he ever said he wishes he hadn't bought the house?

The house is worth more than when he bought it, no?

Nope, you're surrounded by family members who probably think you're a smug twit, and I guess would have something to say about you discussing their finances to strangers.

Edited by bingobob777

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Has he ever said he wishes he hadn't bought the house?

The house is worth more than when he bought it, no?

you're stupid, the marginal opportunity cost is staggering, but that's long words you don't understand heh...

Nope, you're surrounded by family members who probably think you're a smug twit, and I guess would have something to say about you discussing their finances to strangers.

oh get stuffed it's anonymous, I'm anonymous, they're anonymous

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you're stupid, the marginal opportunity cost is staggering, but that's long words you don't understand heh...

oh get stuffed it's anonymous, I'm anonymous, they're anonymous

Has he ever expressed regret about buying the house?

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I would assume, being a first cousin, he has a pretty good idea of their mind set.

Given your apparent rosey/contrarian prognosis for housing at the current time shouldn't you be busy snapping up some bargains? :unsure:

And this rosey/contrarian prognosis was expressed where exactly?

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Has he ever expressed regret about buying the house?

No. Do you know anything in the remotest about human nature and cognitive dissonance or are you as bad as that as you are with numbers?

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You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. Find new ways to derive pleasure, schadenfreude can be quite enjoyable. ;)

twisted mind you, didn't want this to happen

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No. Do you know anything in the remotest about human nature and cognitive dissonance or are you as bad as that as you are with numbers?

That's fine, he bought a house that he's lived in for 8ish years and never expressed any regret about buying. In other words he's bought a home for him and his family.

He hasn't sat gambling for 8 years that prices will fall to a point where he thinks he might be happy to buy, good on him.:lol:

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That's fine, he bought a house that he's lived in for 8ish years and never expressed any regret about buying. In other words he's bought a home for him and his family.

He hasn't sat gambling for 8 years that prices will fall to a point where he thinks he might be happy to buy, good on him.:lol:

I can't go into further details as it would allow some kind of identification, but I promise you the family life is not settled or admirable, there are severe emotional compromises within the whole situation as a result of having an overwhelming financial commitment, which have effected their only child (can't afford another one) in a very negative way that will probably be lifelong. not much of a family.

Edited by Si1

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this is quite scary, on one side of my family, dominated by a large portion of emotional thinking (lot of long term public sector employees in fact), my cousins on that side, and my brother, with significant help from parental life savings for deposits, have made the following house price purchases and upgrades (reference this against the HPC graph - http://www.housepric...house-price.php :

Cousin 1: bought first house 1988, upsized end 2003

Cousin 2: bought regional city centre apartment (with parents' massive multi-5 figure deposit of course) before promptly moving to another city and renting it out as a canny investment (sic), 2005

Brother: Bought house end-2004, waited for recent 2010/2011 house price bounce/peak to upsize

Me: wanted to buy 2001, no help, student loans and car finance too much so decided against it as money would have been tight, compounded by utter utter patronising discouragement from family (including brother)

this is just house price bubble mentality personified, chasing the herd - the losses of family wealth are buttock-squelching, little IQ behind the decisions

I must say that your family does seem to have extraordinary bad timing when it comes to the housing market, and it seems to have made them miserable. But the question Bingobob asked is still legitimate. If they were comfortable with their mortgage payments, there's a good chance that they simply wouldn't care about housing price trends, they'd just get on with their lives.

Until you come along an pi$$ on their chips of course!

In fact, if cousin 1 has been canny, he should have completed his 25-year mortgage term. If that was the case, his housing costs should now be considerably cheaper than yours!

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Brother: Bought house end-2004, waited for recent 2010/2011 house price bounce/peak to upsize

Me: wanted to buy 2001, no help, student loans and car finance too much so decided against it as money would have been tight, compounded by utter utter patronising discouragement from family (including brother)

this is just house price bubble mentality personified, chasing the herd - the losses of family wealth are buttock-squelching, little IQ behind the decisions

May aswell share mine:

Brother: Bought in 2001. Just accepted an offer and will be banking considerable profits before renting with his American gf in NY.

Me: Bought in 2005, sold for a profit in 2010, bought a great family house in nice area. Enjoyed low interest rates and overpaid massively in the last few years - all on a pretty average wage. Just hit 30 and will be mortgage free in my forties.

Parents: Rejected an offer for almost 20x 1980's purchase price. Decided to keep the big family town house so they can host family get togethers, grand kids, etc. Will this make them less wealthy after a possible HPC? Sure. But so what. Cashing in on record HPI would just be greedy and we're different here at HPC aren't we! Actually it's probably thier moral obligation not to sell (at that price) ;)!

Maybe I would be more wealthy if I played a different hand? Who knows? Who cares. We're not greedy like those BTL dudes are we!! Are we? House? Check. Family? Check. Mortgage free and financial independence on the way? Check.

I have nothing against those that decided to wait and I really hope it works out for you. Personally I didn't want to spend the best years of my life waiting to settle down. And if settling down isn't your thing then why ever buy a house!

Don't get me wrong, im not pro high house prices and want them to come down, I just can't agree that buying is such a bad mistake. If you like it and can afford it then surely we're all just 25 yrs from being mortgage free? And for those who enjoyed historically low interest rates and used that to overpay it'll be even sooner :):)!

Good luck to you and your family :)

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How my family fooked it up......

1960s – Grandparents. Penthouse in the Grampians, Shepard's Bush could have brought but carried on renting. Had the money to buy

1983 – Grandma and step grandad (inherited from great grandad – the only person to have any sense having had the house built!) sell 5 bed detached (1920s 120ft garden) in Ruislip, pre 80s boom.

1994 – Grandma and step grandad sell 4 bed with land 1700s cottage near Canterbury – it breaks my heart to see the house on google maps - £130k

1994 – Grandma and Step grandad buy new build mini barn conversion in Kent countryside – current est £180k

1994 – Newly divorced mother uses some of the above money to buy but then sells pre boom to…..

1995 – Buy detached 3.5 bedder in Harrogate with new husband, divorce by 98 and sell pre Brown bubble.

1998 – Buy terraced cottage in North Yorkshire

2009 – Despite being 6k away from mortgage free at the age of 56 my mum shacks up with a spiv who pursuedes her to remortgage as a buy to let (with the house being transferred to some shitty company he set up to do HIPS!!!) freed up money to buy some modernish place in Easingwold with all the equity used to put deposits in both (he told her not to tell me until after it had completed!)…..bless mr Spiv he has put new carpets and curtains in so my mum thinks its fair.

How to blow a Million in 2 generations!

My old man does not believe in the bubble but then he has always rented.

I really fear for my mum who has £260k worth of buy to let and homeowner mortage outstanding approaching gher 60s when neither of them ear much. She has sold her future.

Edited by Brave New World

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...narcissistic gobbledegook...

You're that weird person who never has an argument rather than a rationalised blurb going every which way to support your own prejudices. Spectacular if I may say so.

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How my family fooked it up......

1960s – Grandparents. Penthouse in the Grampians, Shepard's Bush could have brought but carried on renting. Had the money to buy

1983 – Grandma and step grandad (inherited from great grandad – the only person to have any sense having had the house built!) sell 5 bed detached (1920s 120ft garden) in Ruislip, pre 80s boom.

1994 – Grandma and step grandad sell 4 bed with land 1700s cottage near Canterbury – it breaks my heart to see the house on google maps - £130k

1994 – Grandma and Step grandad buy new build mini barn conversion in Kent countryside – current est £180k

1994 – Newly divorced mother uses some of the above money to buy but then sells pre boom to…..

1995 – Buy detached 3.5 bedder in Harrogate with new husband, divorce by 98 and sell pre Brown bubble.

1998 – Buy terraced cottage in North Yorkshire

2009 – Despite being 6k away from mortgage free at the age of 56 my mum shacks up with a spiv who pursuedes her to remortgage as a buy to let (with the house being transferred to some shitty company he set up to do HIPS!!!) freed up money to buy some modernish place in Easingwold with all the equity used to put deposits in both (he told her not to tell me until after it had completed!)…..bless mr Spiv he has put new carpets and curtains in so my mum thinks its fair.

How to blow a Million in 2 generations!

My old man does not believe in the bubble but then he has always rented.

I really fear for my mum who has £260k worth of buy to let and homeowner mortage outstanding approaching gher 60s when neither of them ear much. She has sold her future.

b*gger

you sure you're not my 2nd cousin?

(if you're pug ugly as sin then that's a sign)

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b*gger

you sure you're not my 2nd cousin?

(if you're pug ugly as sin then that's a sign)

Oh my feaures are far too fine, i am more lurcher ugly :)

Only thing we can take from our situations is that we have learnt not what to do from our relatives.

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Here's mine

Both set's of Grandparent's rented most of the time Mothers parent's bought late in life her Dad was a Dentist he died and her mother moved about 6 x after that , sold up for a few thousand moved in with her son and spent the lot leaving enough to be buried in 1974.

Dads parent's lived in the ground floor of a house another family lived upstairs Grandad was offered the whole house for £600 in the 50's he turned it down , a few years later he was found laying on the pavement after leaving a pub ( he had £600 in his back pocket ) died in 1973 and there was a few hundred pounds left after costs.

Uncle bought in mid 50's new build Essex £1500 widow still lives there today value about £200k

Dad Bought 1961 £3750 still there value about £315-325k .

Brother bought 1982 £20k endowment mortgage , remortgaged for £25k a few years later endowment lapsed after divorce , ex wife went over to repayment and has a few years left on loan , value about £165-175k. Last year both he and ex wife contacted by endowment company the endowment had matured and there was 5k in it ( nice surprise as they though when it lapsed they lost the lot but what was in there had been building up over the years.

Me bought sold moved up down , sideways backwards, f-ck knows how many times I have moved STRd in 2007 and bought outright in 2009 flat worth about £100k

Saw a flat I paid £50k for in 1993 and sold for £75k in 1997 on rightmove the other day for £289k Felt sick to my back teeth.

Younger brother bought 2001 sold 2003 and spent the 20k profit , rents a bedsit for £400 pm , more than his old mortgage.

Sister £150k mortgage on modest house worth about £200k bought in 2005 second home after selling FTB flat . Two kids low wages both have to work and struggle to live .

Moral of the story buy a place if you can don't rent take out a 25 year repayment mortgage and stay there paying it off . Don't move about just stay there and pay it off.

Edited by miko

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Me bought sold moved up down , sideways backwards, f-ck knows how many times I have moved STRd in 2007 and bought outright in 2009 flat worth about £100k

Saw a flat I paid £50k for in 1993 and sold for £75k in 1997 on rightmove the other day for £289k Felt sick to my back teeth.

Nobody predicted this housing bubble - that is the thing with bubbles, if they were mechanistic they wouldn't be bubbles. Bear in mind Warren Buffet and George Soros missed out on dotcoms as well as the properdie bubble but are both much richer than those who partook, after the event.

Younger brother bought 2001 sold 2003 and spent the 20k profit , rents a bedsit for £400 pm , more than his old mortgage.

Sister £150k mortgage on modest house worth about £200k bought in 2005 second home after selling FTB flat . Two kids low wages both have to work and struggle to live .

Moral of the story buy a place if you can don't rent take out a 25 year repayment mortgage and stay there paying it off . Don't move about just stay there and pay it off.

You're saying buy and hold investments for the long term, this certainly works as transaction costs are a bugger. But this applies to other growth assets including shares etc, so also I would say try to buy at or below the long term price level against asset-income.

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Nobody predicted this housing bubble - that is the thing with bubbles, if they were mechanistic they wouldn't be bubbles. Bear in mind Warren Buffet and George Soros missed out on dotcoms as well as the properdie bubble but are both much richer than those who partook, after the event.

You're saying buy and hold investments for the long term, this certainly works as transaction costs are a bugger. But this applies to other growth assets including shares etc, so also I would say try to buy at or below the long term price level against asset-income.

Give you another one

Dads other brother

Bought a house late 50's , don't know how much but not much as back in the 50's houses were cheap he was 22 and just married . One month after buying the house he got killed in a motor bike accident , the insurance company paid out and his young wife was mortgage free ( she then found out that she was pregenant ) she had her son and remarried having two more sons. In the 60's they sold the house and moved to Ireland buying a pub. This went wrong and they came back here , they never got back on their feet again after losing all the money in the pub and both died pennyless in the 80's.

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Give you another one

Dads other brother

Bought a house late 50's , don't know how much but not much as back in the 50's houses were cheap he was 22 and just married . One month after buying the house he got killed in a motor bike accident , the insurance company paid out and his young wife was mortgage free ( she then found out that she was pregenant ) she had her son and remarried having two more sons. In the 60's they sold the house and moved to Ireland buying a pub. This went wrong and they came back here , they never got back on their feet again after losing all the money in the pub and both died pennyless in the 80's.

sh*t b*gger etc. I am sorry.

one of those side-stories - going into the hospitality industry seems to be a very common way to lose money, awful awful business, I am sorry.

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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