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richcrashman

Students For Cuts

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I'm currently at university doing a part time degree as a mature student.

Had an email this morning from the N.U.S. calling for folks to go to a couple of demos, a.k.a. Students against cuts.

I couldn't help myself firing of a quick email back asking if i could have a group "Students For Cuts". :lol:

I advised the president of local NUS to learn about money and who creates and controls it!!

Looking forward to getting my reply!!

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I'm currently at university doing a part time degree as a mature student.

Had an email this morning from the N.U.S. calling for folks to go to a couple of demos, a.k.a. Students against cuts.

I couldn't help myself firing of a quick email back asking if i could have a group "Students For Cuts". :lol:

I advised the president of local NUS to learn about money and who creates and controls it!!

Looking forward to getting my reply!!

Of any group it really should be todays students that campaign for a balanced budget, the more the government racks up debt the more tax they will have to pay in the future ... if any future ever decides that it will live within its means again.

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I'm currently at university doing a part time degree as a mature student.

Had an email this morning from the N.U.S. calling for folks to go to a couple of demos, a.k.a. Students against cuts.

I couldn't help myself firing of a quick email back asking if i could have a group "Students For Cuts". :lol:

I advised the president of local NUS to learn about money and who creates and controls it!!

Looking forward to getting my reply!!

Brilliant well done. This thing is the NUS are just labour supporting debt junkies so I doubt you'll ever convince anyone.

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NUS is a union, they are pro labour anti conservatives, writing to a union about something that doesn't fit the party line won't work.

When the labour party introduced fees and abolished grants there were very small demonstrations.... when the conservatives did something that was proportionally smaller they kicked off... The time to kick off was at the start when the labour party was in power.

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Of any group it really should be todays students that campaign for a balanced budget, the more the government racks up debt the more tax they will have to pay in the future ... if any future ever decides that it will live within its means again.

the students don't really know what to demonstrate against - it's only slightly below the surface that they realise all they are railing against is the loss of their right to subsidised support of their future position in the middle classes, paid for by the working classes.

And yes they're anti-tory and pro-labour just for the sake of it, naturally...!

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Are you a member of the NUS?

Is NUS membership opt-in or opt-out at your place of study?

FWIW, my college opted out of auto-enrollment by popular vote amongst the students. So I was never an NUS member.

(We also elected a paid-up Young Conservative as our union president. He's now a correspondent with the BBC).

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Yes i'm a member of the NUS.

I think we had an opt out on the forms when we enrolled.

Have to admit i wanted it for my student discounts (not that i buy anything).

I know they are pro labour (without really knowing why).

But i figure you have to chip away where you can. If all they ever hear is loony left propaganda that's all they will ever think.

Could also be a bit of fun making them allow me to have the club that is pro cuts!!! :lol:

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I know they are pro labour (without really knowing why).

they're just young. I bet many many HPCrs flirted with socialism in therir younger days

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Good thinking student.

Severe cuts in the pay of University Staff, and their bloated pensions, will mean large reductions in the student fees that lead to the onerous debt the older generation are trying to place upon you.

More general cuts to state expenditure, particularly civil service pay and pensions, state pensions, and benefits, will lead to a general reduction in taxation, which will reduce your cost of living, again meaning you will need to borrow less to live whilst being a student.

Lower taxation will also make it more likely companies will want to set up businesses here, and more likely that business will survive here, giving you a job after you graduate, such that you can repay the lower debts that you can incur.

I am not a student, but I can say that you are right, the NUS is currently a Turkey organisation voting for Christmas.

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they're just young. I bet many many HPCrs flirted with socialism in therir younger days

Yes i think you're right, they just need a proper education. But they need to open their eyes for that.

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I am not a student, but I can say that you are right, the NUS is currently a Turkey organisation voting for Christmas.

Yes, but they haven't seen the farmer polishing his gun ready!!! :lol:

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I'm currently at university doing a part time degree as a mature student.

In other words you're not a real student. :lol:

they're just young. I bet many many HPCrs flirted with socialism in therir younger days
I'm middle aged and I've flirted with socialism all my life, although I've always voted Lib Dem. Now that the Lib Dems have become mere lobby-fodder for the Tories, I'd now class myself as a Labour voter. So I'm no longer just flirting with socialism. I would say that Blair's New Labour was definitely not socialist, but tried to be a kind of feelgood, all things to all men party. Under Brown it deteriorated into incompetent muddle. But the Torylition that followed is intent on punishing the voters for the sins of the bankers and Brown's government, and that's just not on.

That's why I feel comfortable switching my allegiance from Lib Dem to Labour.

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NUS is a union, they are pro labour anti conservatives, writing to a union about something that doesn't fit the party line won't work.

When the labour party introduced fees and abolished grants there were very small demonstrations.... when the conservatives did something that was proportionally smaller they kicked off... The time to kick off was at the start when the labour party was in power.

Same with stop and search

Same with ID cards

Same with excise duties

Same with privatization of Royal mail/post office

Same with CGT

Sometimes i think as a rightwinger I should try and become a Liebour MP. You get a lot more right wing things done because the morons called the british public dont expect it.

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I'm currently at university doing a part time degree as a mature student.

Had an email this morning from the N.U.S. calling for folks to go to a couple of demos, a.k.a. Students against cuts.

I couldn't help myself firing of a quick email back asking if i could have a group "Students For Cuts". :lol:

I advised the president of local NUS to learn about money and who creates and controls it!!

Looking forward to getting my reply!!

Excellent. Well Done.

More of us HPC'ers need to start getting the message out onto different forums.

To a wider audience.

Social websites, like Facebook, are statistically the most frequented 'hangouts' of Students.

I joined The Student Room last month, and have started posting occasionally over there.

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=60

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they're just young. I bet many many HPCrs flirted with socialism in therir younger days

I think that depends a lot on your generation and - specifically - what were the big issues of your formative years.

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Same with stop and search

Same with ID cards

Same with excise duties

Same with privatization of Royal mail/post office

Same with CGT

Sometimes i think as a rightwinger I should try and become a Liebour MP. You get a lot more right wing things done because the morons called the british public dont expect it.

Gary North calls this the political "hip pocket", that is when the left is in power they can sell out their interest groups because they already have them in their "hip pocket", the left gets a free pass. i.e in the US Obama sends drones to kill babies abroad and there are no protests.

When the tories are in power they also sell out their members and small business i.e people they purport to represent but because these groups are in their hip pocket they aren't going anywhere

It's always a move towards corporatism by both parties

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Good luck! I've stopped viewing universities as centres of knowledge and now see them as New Labour breeding grounds, every good socialist (from Hitler onwards) knows how imprtant it is to hijack the education system and infiltrate vulnerable minds. And you've got to hand it to Labour, they have done a smashing job.

Give them a few years on the debt treadmill and they might come round, better still just lobby mature students; they'll have more idea about how it all works.

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No reply yet, still waiting baited breath. :P

I don't have a big problem with putting up the reply.

I still try and spread the word to anyone who will listen.

Couple of the guys in my modules (we are all mid 30's) are poles apart.

1 has family, bought house in 2007. He is very interested and now watches relevant programs and youtube vids etc, even thinking about putting some saving into metals. He has really grasped the hole we are in. He's had a real awakening.

The other has just moved in with new girlfriend, in negative equity on his existing house and has CC debt from lively lifestyle. So he's just gone BTL on his old place as he couldn't afford to sell at small loss! He is hoping that HPI will cover his negative equity and debts! I asked what he would do if interest rates rise? He said he's had it if they do !! ;)

Started to convert another group i work with !!! :lol:

We have to spread the alternative to the VI rhubarb that the BBC spits out. I think many would never find it on there own but with a little nudge in the right direction they are eager to discover more.

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Hello. Interesting discussion. Just to say that I work in the university sector and while I agree with the general sentiment here that the government should not be paying for middle class kids to go to university, I do worry about the effect this is going to have on students from poor backgrounds.

First, to set the context: One of the problems with the Labour government's plans for higher education was this silly idea that over 50% of young people should go onto university. I look forward to the day that Gove's reforms come in and those new universities offering media studies courses etc go under. The UK needs a diversified workforce with far more young people learning valuable trades and the like.

So we need fewer young people going on to third level? Yes, I believe we do. But this is where the recent fees increase causes some difficulty. I would estimate that about 90% of my students come from extremely wealthy backgrounds (and I mean WEALTHY, holiday homes in Barbados types). For the most part, their parents are connected to the movers and shakers in my discipline, and their parents set up jobs for them when they leave. I have seen wealthy students with very average academic ability (and poor social skills) obtain high-flying graduate jobs while a poorer student with outstanding talent joins the dole queue or goes abroad.

It is all very well to say that only 25% of young people should go on to university in a diversified economy, if that 25% consists of those students that are best placed to succeed at university. Having visited many schools in disadvantaged areas over the past few months, I am sure that the fees increase will make it even less likely that smart and capable poorer students will go on to university.

So, I take the point that working class families should not be funding our very wealthy students to get high-flying graduate jobs. But please do not forget the other side of the coin. Do not forget those exceptional students from poor backgrounds who could go on to become outstanding engineers, doctors, scientists and benefit the British economy as a whole (as well as paying higher tax rate). The government talks about scholarships in this new system but for every one scholarship that is given out, you will have tens of wealthy students to whom £9,000 a year means nothing.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the issue of fees is not black and white. There is still mass segregation in British society, particularly in education.

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I think that depends a lot on your generation and - specifically - what were the big issues of your formative years.

honesly disagree with you there - the ypoung, being idealistic, tend to be attracted to socialism more - famous alumni include Michael Portillo and Winston Churchill

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I have seen wealthy students with very average academic ability (and poor social skills) obtain high-flying graduate jobs while a poorer student with outstanding talent joins the dole queue or goes abroad.

And those same average students will tell you- with perfect sincerity- that they got those high flying jobs entirely on merit- not because they are cynical hypocrites but because the help they receive is so intrinsic to their reality that it seems as natural and inevitable as breathing.

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Hello. Interesting discussion. Just to say that I work in the university sector and while I agree with the general sentiment here that the government should not be paying for middle class kids to go to university, I do worry about the effect this is going to have on students from poor backgrounds.

First, to set the context: One of the problems with the Labour government's plans for higher education was this silly idea that over 50% of young people should go onto university. I look forward to the day that Gove's reforms come in and those new universities offering media studies courses etc go under. The UK needs a diversified workforce with far more young people learning valuable trades and the like.

So we need fewer young people going on to third level? Yes, I believe we do. But this is where the recent fees increase causes some difficulty. I would estimate that about 90% of my students come from extremely wealthy backgrounds (and I mean WEALTHY, holiday homes in Barbados types). For the most part, their parents are connected to the movers and shakers in my discipline, and their parents set up jobs for them when they leave. I have seen wealthy students with very average academic ability (and poor social skills) obtain high-flying graduate jobs while a poorer student with outstanding talent joins the dole queue or goes abroad.

It is all very well to say that only 25% of young people should go on to university in a diversified economy, if that 25% consists of those students that are best placed to succeed at university. Having visited many schools in disadvantaged areas over the past few months, I am sure that the fees increase will make it even less likely that smart and capable poorer students will go on to university.

So, I take the point that working class families should not be funding our very wealthy students to get high-flying graduate jobs. But please do not forget the other side of the coin. Do not forget those exceptional students from poor backgrounds who could go on to become outstanding engineers, doctors, scientists and benefit the British economy as a whole (as well as paying higher tax rate). The government talks about scholarships in this new system but for every one scholarship that is given out, you will have tens of wealthy students to whom £9,000 a year means nothing.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the issue of fees is not black and white. There is still mass segregation in British society, particularly in education.

surely that is what the new student loans scheme addresses?:

eg, poor talented student. the major risk is it doesn;t work out for them and they don't want to burdened wiuth debts in the event they end up working in a factory instead. Racks up 30k debts, doesn't work out for him, doesn't have to pay them off because he never earns enough anyway so is fine, so it is not really 30k of debt in that case, it's a generous scheme. If he DOES make it then the repayments are not such a problem since he earns enough. It's imperfect but it's not awful in a limited money system, and I agree too many people go to uni these days.

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surely that is what the new student loans scheme addresses?:

eg, poor talented student. the major risk is it doesn;t work out for them and they don't want to burdened wiuth debts in the event they end up working in a factory instead. Racks up 30k debts, doesn't work out for him, doesn't have to pay them off because he never earns enough anyway so is fine, so it is not really 30k of debt in that case, it's a generous scheme. If he DOES make it then the repayments are not such a problem since he earns enough. It's imperfect but it's not awful in a limited money system, and I agree too many people go to uni these days.

yes, it should work, in theory. Problem is: in practice, I am speaking to talented poor students every day who simply cannot see past the potential £40,000 debt. All I am saying is that the fees increase will impact on the number of these students coming to my university at least, and it will ensure that even more of our places are filled with nice but dim wealthy students whose parents are well connected. Just outlining my personal experience with this.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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