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I for one have learnt alot about the property market, on this site in the last year or so.

So I think it's fair to say that you would be mad to BTL at the moment, but there will be a time when it may become a wise investment again.

So lets be honest who on this forum would consider it in the future, or is it just socially unaccepable at any time ?

I will admit here and now that, when the time is right, and if i've got any spare money I would definately consider it.

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Hmm.

I have come to think it is not 'acceptable'. I used to think about leaving a nest-egg aside for a future BTL investment but now I think I am just going to pay off as much of the cost of my home as possible.

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Guest muttley

I couldn't be doing with the hassle of residential BTL.I might consider commercial property.

I consider BTL to be a business,not an investment.As such it is open to the same rigors,ups and downs of any business.

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I don't think BTL is immoral.

Foolish financial suicide right now.. granted..

Old Plan:

Get a second house.. stick tennants in it for 25 years..

they pay your mortgage..

result.

Current Plan

was:

Buy a property.. its really expensive.. but hell you can shift it in a year for a massive profits.. Just loose on rent for a few months and its easy money in the bank.

Pretend that the Plan was:

Okay, the prices havent gone up.. and infact have dipped by a few thousand and no one wants to buy your BTL house.. you are loosing money hand over fist monthly as the rent does not even cover your mortgage... Pretend that you were prepared for this and it is still your retirement plan.. as you fork out several hundred a month and hope it all gets better..

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BTL has become a dirty word here because idiots looking for easy money have stuffed up house prices. This will drop out as the people expecting easy money start, in fact, losing it by the bucketload and subsequently the market will correct. Like any gold rush, some will get rich, some will get burnt, and once the fever calms down people will think of BTL differently.

As I said in another post, being a Landlord is just providing a service, and people doing it as a service business, managing their properties responsibly and buying properties with a sound eye on the financials of it should not be regarded with disdain. I happen to rent a property I bought, though it was not purchased as a BTL. I feel I have a duty of care towards my tenants and always carry out repairs promptly and replace any damaged goods. Consequently, i've made almost no profit, but capital gains have (again, unintentionally) done me right - that and the money i've sunk into upgrading the place.

Would I do it intentionally? No. It's too much hassle on a small scale. If I could afford a couple of streets or blocks of flats I might bother, but the margins are too small on just a few properties.

What I might do, which propbably makes me a lower form of life is - come the next boom cycle- become a flipper and work the market as I would any other asset class - buy cheap & sell high.

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I for one have learnt alot about the property market, on this site in the last year or so.

So I think it's fair to say that you would be mad to BTL at the moment, but there will be a time when it may become a wise investment again.

So lets be honest who on this forum would consider it in the future, or is it just socially unaccepable at any time ?

I will admit here and now that, when the time is right, and if i've got any spare money I would definately consider it.

Like any investment it has to make sense in and of itself and that's judged by the yields, I'm sure most BTL'ers before 2000 primarily bought because the yields justified it then and in the longterm, the capital gains were still a potential downside risk through most of the 90's.

Of course the mania of late is something else, like the dot.coms that had no earnings but piles of debt, people have become totally dizzy and driven prices far above what the yield can justify, of course the MEW'ing and house of cards approach has driven this, they're playing with other peoples money without considering the dangeriously high gearing.

If people are buying purely on a short term speculative basis and subsidizing their tenents then obviously the market has overshot, if they can't make it pay, who can? Who are they going to cash out to? they are the last fool, they're left holding the baby.

If it makes sense from a disspassionate investment point of view based on the yields and not highly leveraged using funny money then professional investors may come back in again one day.

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This question isn't much different to asking whether its moral to have a job or not.

I buy places to secure a higher income. I take risks, I lose the opportunity to make other choices in my life, I earn an income because of it.

People work to secure a higher income, they take risks, they lose the opportunity to make other choices in their lives, they earn an income because of it.

Is either moral?

Is it moral to sell Coke & Mars Bars for a profit in a corner store?

These are BASIC principles in our society.

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This question isn't much different to asking whether its moral to have a job or not.

I buy places to secure a higher income. I take risks, I lose the opportunity to make other choices in my life, I earn an income because of it.

People work to secure a higher income, they take risks, they lose the opportunity to make other choices in their lives, they earn an income because of it.

Is either moral?

I dunno, but you nick your tenants' broadband, I'm not sure that's moral :lol:

Edited by BuyingBear

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That's the neighbours broaband..... :D

Oh, that's ok then :P

It couldn't have been one of your tenants thinking about, no adsl in the slums, if they could afford it anyway, especially after their Dickensian landlord has his wicked way with their wearysome wage to add to his worrysome wedge.

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Guest Guy_Montag
BTL has become a dirty word here because idiots looking for easy money have stuffed up house prices. This will drop out as the people expecting easy money start, in fact, losing it by the bucketload and subsequently the market will correct. Like any gold rush, some will get rich, some will get burnt, and once the fever calms down people will think of BTL differently.

As I said in another post, being a Landlord is just providing a service, and people doing it as a service business, managing their properties responsibly and buying properties with a sound eye on the financials of it should not be regarded with disdain. I happen to rent a property I bought, though it was not purchased as a BTL. I feel I have a duty of care towards my tenants and always carry out repairs promptly and replace any damaged goods. Consequently, i've made almost no profit, but capital gains have (again, unintentionally) done me right - that and the money i've sunk into upgrading the place.

Would I do it intentionally? No. It's too much hassle on a small scale. If I could afford a couple of streets or blocks of flats I might bother, but the margins are too small on just a few properties.

What I might do, which propbably makes me a lower form of life is - come the next boom cycle- become a flipper and work the market as I would any other asset class - buy cheap & sell high.

I totally agree with you, btl is a business not an investment, treat it like a job. I also think it is too risky. A bad tenant or two, some problems with the roof and you could easily end up heavily out of pocket. Of more concern is that the govt. or local govt. changes the rules without much notice & that flat that you used to rent out to 5 students, now has restrictive multiple occumpancy rules imposed on it. Or you have to get all the electrics PAT tested & replace all the furniture with that labeled as flame retardant.

Nope, the smart money is in flipping & when the time comes, that's what I think I would go for.

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Here's a good way to get into BTL...

1. Become a billionairre.

2. Find a remote village with say 200 flats/houses.

3. Each time a property comes onto the market buy it. The locals will try to buy it also, but as you're a billionairre you can simply out-bid them.

4. Pretty soon prices will be well out of reach of the locals and whenever a property comes onto the market you can snap it up.

5. Eventually you'll own the entire village and every resident will effectively be working to pay your mortgages.

Presto!

This is what's known as creating demand, which is the opposite of addressing a demand. One is moral, I'll let you guess which one it is.

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I couldn't be doing with the hassle of residential BTL.I might consider commercial property.

I consider BTL to be a business,not an investment.As such it is open to the same rigors,ups and downs of any business.

True. I would agree with Warren Buffet

who said that he did not understand how

property could constitute an investment at all,

since the same average old house does not

become more attractive with time as wine

or art does;

Land is a proper investment from this perspective

of course due to limited supply, not property built

on it which rots and in need of constant up-keep.

Hence the moral:

Land – investment, property built on it – mere business.

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I for one am not sure if I would have the business nose to do BTL, but maybe if I considered houses to be cheap at some point in the future then it would be a wise move, if money I could afford to lose.

However, I fancy the new residential investment trusts, I like the idea that I canexpose investment to property at such a point that I deem it good value, and all along, if it suits my lifestyle, live in good value rented accomodation thus giving me relative freedom to move and follow gainful/interesting employment where necessary moving around the country/world without having to maintain a ho0use for someone.

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Guest rigsby II

I stalled at the first hurdle, never quite made BTL landlord.

I had a few BTL all ready to go in 2001/2002

Then when a prospective Kosovan tenant threatened to firebomb the letting agency and put bricks through all my windows, I put them up for sale instead pronto.

Add to that the impromptu mosque in the next doors front room and hal-al slaughterhouse in the garden, I thought sod this for a game of soldiers.

I like to sleep at night.

Next time I may go a bit more up-market though, if the price is right.

:)

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Nope, the smart money is in flipping & when the time comes, that's what I think I would go for.

What is it about this country that spawns this "money-for-nothing" parasitic attitude by the bucketload?

I for one have learnt alot about the property market, on this site in the last year or so.

So I think it's fair to say that you would be mad to BTL at the moment, but there will be a time when it may become a wise investment again.

Great, so the site itself is creating more of the [ offensive text removed by moderator ] who caused this problem in the first place. <_<

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What is it about this country that spawns this "money-for-nothing" parasitic attitude by the bucketload?

Flipping is no different to buying and selling shares. In a boom, all you're doing is exploiting a market trend.

Great, so the site itself is creating more of the [ offensive text removed by moderator ] who caused this problem in the first place.  <_<

Those causing the problem are people who see BTL as a gravy train, not as a business.

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I have come to think it is not 'acceptable'. I used to think about leaving a nest-egg aside for a future BTL investment but now I think I am just going to pay off as much of the cost of my home as possible.

Right, so if you dont own your own place where do you live? At home?

Landlordism is really repugnant. You've got to consider the consequences of your money making decisions.

zzzzzz.....another trotskyite right outta college.

Why dont you FO back to your parents place then?

Repugnant is when people post half-arsed opinions.

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What is it about this country that spawns this "money-for-nothing" parasitic attitude by the bucketload?

Great, so the site itself is creating more of the [ offensive text removed by moderator ] who caused this problem in the first place.  <_<

Hang on a minute, its not always money for nothing as many BTL landlords are about to find out very soon, if they haven't already.

I've got no great love for BTL'ers but, I dont hold a grudge against them either, and yes they have put us FTB'ers in a bad position, but thats business mate, accept it, our day will come, and you should be making your plans for it now.

BTL'ers took the risk and good luck to those that made money, but your day has gone, and some will pay a heavy price for jumping in without any research, and expecting to make a "quick buck"

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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