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Ologhai Jones

Daily Politics On House Price

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Just for information:

At the end of the Daily Politics today, it was announced that one of the subjects they're going to cover tomorrow (Thursday the 20th of January) is house prices.

It's hard to imagine their coverage will be overly extensive (and it may turn out to be a remote-control-throwing experience for some on here! :D), but anyway... there it is in case you're interested.

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Tory MP "We think house prices have risen too high and will be announcing an innovative policy for FTBs to help them get on the ladder"

LibDem MP "We warned about rising house prices for years. Unfortunately now we're in govt. we've reneged on all our promises and nobody cares what we say anymore"

Labour MP "Can I put it on expenses?"

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Tory MP "We think house prices have risen too high and will be announcing an innovative policy for FTBs to help them get on the ladder"

LibDem MP "We warned about rising house prices for years. Unfortunately now we're in govt. we've reneged on all our promises and nobody cares what we say anymore"

Labour MP "Can I put it on expenses?"

Nah, it will be Roy Boulger, clocking up and banking another appearance fee.

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Just for information:

At the end of the Daily Politics today, it was announced that one of the subjects they're going to cover tomorrow (Thursday the 20th of January) is house prices.

It's hard to imagine their coverage will be overly extensive (and it may turn out to be a remote-control-throwing experience for some on here! :D), but anyway... there it is in case you're interested.

Their 'contact us' details if anyone wants to try:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/the_daily_politics/contact_us/default.stm

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Nah, it will be Roy Boulger, clocking up and banking another appearance fee.

let's hope so and he gets the full on Brillo treatment

Although I rather like Brillo I suspect he will prove to be a housing VI

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Their 'contact us' details if anyone wants to try:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/the_daily_politics/contact_us/default.stm

Sent. :)

I have a very modest dream: I just hope they mention it was a bubble, and that we are still near peak level. That is all. :(

I know, too much to ask.

But if you think a second about it... this is North Korea level of disinformation, isn't it??!!

3 years after the bubble first tried to burst itself, and most of the nation doesn't even know about it. ... :huh:

Unfeckingbelievable.

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Their 'contact us' details if anyone wants to try:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/the_daily_politics/contact_us/default.stm

Just sent a second one:

________________________________________________________________________

Subject: Bubble and North Korea

Sorry, I forgot one point: Please just mention it was a bubble? Please?

Am I asking too much?

If so, are we really better than North Korea?

Thanks,

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Dear Andrew;

Perhaps you will have the courage to point out the Elephant - or Mammoth - in the Room: House prices have been ludicrously driven up mainly as a result of MASSIVE mortgage fraud - i.e. Predatory Liar Loans - and unless and until prices come down to a sustainable level based on REAL, non-liar incomes, and on the only sensible basis of 3 x single salary or 4 x dual salary, the UK will NEVER be a happy and normal place in which to live.

High property prices have increased the cost of everything and made life miserable for far too many - for households, businesses and governments. They have increased living costs, production costs and government costs (and taxes), thus reducing Britain's international competitiveness, impoverishing us all. Nothing is ever going to change for the better for this country unless we grasp the nettle now and let house "prices" decline 40-50%, and NOT artificially prop them up with low interest rates, "quantitative easing" and all the other methods/subsidies being used.

EP

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I sent one but didn't save the text.

It went along the lines of HPI being a tax engineered by the government to force more households to have two workers so they contribute two sets of income tax. I also gave a maths example of how with HPI when upsizing the "profit" on a house sale, is purely fictitious and that percentage is merely the increase in the funding gap between the houses, i.e. the public have been conned into believing debt is wealth.

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Ooh, what did you say? :)

The Usual. :)

Didnt save the text.

Ive seen the lightweight discussions on housing before on TDP.

Waste of time. Politican's steer the conversation.

Nobody wants to hear from those who dont own property. Because they think it will be political suicide.

Just sent this as well.

The UK median Household Income is one way of considering affordability.

The last time house prices followed their long term inflationary affordability as a proportion of household income was the mid 1990's.

It is clear that if prices fall to the same level of affordability relative to median household income earnings and interest rates, as they did in the mid-1990s, we are still looking at a 50% + fall, from 2007 peak prices.

Home ownership has remained pretty level since 1990.

An important difference between this bubble and the late-1980s bubble is that this time there are a lot more buy-to-let speculators. These people are highly leveraged (their debts are high relative to their assets) so small changes in asset prices make a big change to their situation. As it becomes more difficult to borrow money, many of these people will find that they cannot refinance at affordable rates when their 'teaser' rates come to an end. The long term average Base rate is at 5%. When IR rise again these BTL Speculators must sell their properties or the bank will repossess.

I believe Under 10% of the UK homeowning [owner occupier] population would be facing negative equity if a 50% housing crash occured

When IR do increase, the BTL investor, will not be in the position of the owner occupier homeowner, [with negative equity but an affordable mortgage,] who can afford to hang on as long as he doesn't lose his job, or move house.

The BTL speculators should have to lower their price to sell. [but the bank bailouts have given the banks, an opportunity to engineer a soft bottom in the housing market. Which is in effect, theft. Stealing my money via QE and future taxes etc, to prop up house prices, making sure I cannot afford mine own, and remain stuck in debt slavery having to pay for a 'liar loan' landlords retirement]

Who could afford their own house if they had to buy it now?

No-one.

So who exactly is the government supporting here?

Because its not 'Joe Bloggs, the average worker, who simply wants to be able to work for a house, a job and a family, is it?

Its the Vested Interests.

Have you looked at the figures? Do you know how much Owner Occupier Debt, there is compared to BTL debt?

Do you know when there will be more 'voters' priced out of housing than those facing negative equity, unless a 50% housing crash occurs?

Who do you think those voters will be voting for by 2015? The Party whose policies are to keep house prices massively overinflated?

The Coalition need to act a lot quicker to redress the balance, otherwise risk being tarred with the same brush as Labour.

Raise CGT. Increase IR. For starters. Stop stealing my money. We've already suffered in debt slavery for a decade.

A 50% to 60% reduction from peak prices would have occured if the banks had not been bailed out. [This should have happened already. And It is simply a return to the long term average affordability of housing]

Where is the bailout for the people forced to waste tens upon tens of thousands in rent, for over a decade, as house prices went further and further out of our reach? House prices were purposefully manipulated to rise by Labour. You think the cuts and pain are just arriving now. Try working for nothing for over a decade and being completely ignored by everyone.

Its Theft.

Why should we work for nothing for another decade?

Its the biggest fraud in history. Overseen and assisted by The Labour Party and carried out by the Banks.

Why is it that the BBC do not want this social injustice to become widely acknowledged by the Public? Why do you never tell the story from the perspective of the millions who are 'priced out?'

Edited by Dan1

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The Usual. :)

Didnt save the text.

Ive seen the lightweight discussions on housing before on TDP.

Waste of time. Politican's steer the conversation.

Nobody wants to hear from those who dont own property. Because they think it will be political suicide.

Just sent this as well.

The UK median Household Income is one way of considering affordability.

..........///...........//

Its the biggest fraud in history. Overseen and assisted by The Labour Party and carried out by the Banks.

Why is it that the BBC do not want this social injustice to become widely acknowledged by the Public? Why do you never tell the story from the perspective of the millions who are 'priced out?'

Excellent. Well said. THE TRUTH of course..... Which is why you won't read/hear it on the BBC or anywhere else except a few places like HPC of course.... :rolleyes:

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Very good everyone but you need to keep it short in the hope of getting it mentioned. Short little soundbites they can read of in a couple of seconds.

Edited by Papa Serf

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Dear Andrew;

Perhaps you will have the courage to point out the Elephant - or Mammoth - in the Room: House prices have been ludicrously driven up mainly as a result of MASSIVE mortgage fraud - i.e. Predatory Liar Loans - and unless and until prices come down to a sustainable level based on REAL, non-liar incomes, and on the only sensible basis of 3 x single salary or 4 x dual salary, the UK will NEVER be a happy and normal place in which to live.

High property prices have increased the cost of everything and made life miserable for far too many - for households, businesses and governments. They have increased living costs, production costs and government costs (and taxes), thus reducing Britain's international competitiveness, impoverishing us all. Nothing is ever going to change for the better for this country unless we grasp the nettle now and let house "prices" decline 40-50%, and NOT artificially prop them up with low interest rates, "quantitative easing" and all the other methods/subsidies being used.

EP

Thanks Eric, I am flattered. :)

All the best,

( I just hope Andrew reads those messages. He seems to be the "delegating" type. I think he has his heart in the right place, is competent, but... a bit lazy. )

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I keep hearing the term "predatory liar loans" on this site and tbh don't know what you mean, so using the term to try and convince Joe Public probably just sounds ranty.

:lol: Not difficult to look it up --

See all below

and see here - http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&biw=1020&bih=567&q=predatory+liar+loans&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&fp=6526bea6af5447b8

and keep going.... :rolleyes:

--------------------------

+ See here: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=155756

Gordon Moron Broon could have STOPPED

PREDATORY LIAR LOANS;

They were THE rocket fuel that inflated the MASSIVE property bubble......

He COULD have stopped them in their tracks.

Instead - he totally ignored the warnings - and - he knighted James Crosby, head of HBOS - and one of the main peddlers of toxic & fraudulent PREDATORY LIAR LOANS. Read all about HIM below!!!

Edited by eric pebble

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And EXCELLENT - and RARE article about Predatory Lending from the Herald Scotland:

Curb property addiction to avoid another disaster

IAIN MacWHIRTER

It used to be said that a man's price is just a few pounds short of his mortgage. Though in Westminster that should now be his second mortgage, and women MPs, like Hazel Blears, have been just as bad as the men. It's widely accepted now that our political system will require radical change to restore public confidence. But there's something else that is needing reform: the housing market. Our national obsession with property corrupted parliament by turning many of our politicians into property speculators.

Read all here: V Good.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/curb-property-addiction-to-avoid-another-disaster-1.910898

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Dear Andrew;

Perhaps you will have the courage to point out the Elephant - or Mammoth - in the Room: House prices have been ludicrously driven up mainly as a result of MASSIVE mortgage fraud - i.e. Predatory Liar Loans - and unless and until prices come down to a sustainable level based on REAL, non-liar incomes, and on the only sensible basis of 3 x single salary or 4 x dual salary, the UK will NEVER be a happy and normal place in which to live.

High property prices have increased the cost of everything and made life miserable for far too many - for households, businesses and governments. They have increased living costs, production costs and government costs (and taxes), thus reducing Britain's international competitiveness, impoverishing us all. Nothing is ever going to change for the better for this country unless we grasp the nettle now and let house "prices" decline 40-50%, and NOT artificially prop them up with low interest rates, "quantitative easing" and all the other methods/subsidies being used.

EP

Your Masonry needs a good scruBBing!

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Off Topic.

I do actually wonder occasionally if those of us priced out of housing, have some legal recourse against the government?

For instance:

Could some very clever Barrister/QC argue on behalf of the people who are priced out of housing, who do not own property, that it is 'unreasonable' for that section of society, to pay the same amount, [in taxes etc] as those who do own property? [subsequent to the Bank Bailouts]

Or that:

Those who do not own property, or have a mortgage, should be refunded by the government, for the devaluation of the pound in their pockets, due to the effects of Quantative Easing?

Or work out an equation whereby the people whom are priced out of housing, should have their income taxes offset by some method, which takes into account the 'unreasonable' position that the government have placed the 'priced out section of society in?

Or could we petition a body like the taxpayers alliance to organise a serious tax revolt?

Theoretically, is a legal recourse plausible?

Imagine the attention it would get from the media.

Edited by Dan1

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Off Topic.

I do actually wonder occasionally if those of us priced out of housing, have some legal recourse against the government?

For instance:

Could some very clever Barrister/QC argue on behalf of the people who are priced out of housing, who do not own property, that it is 'unreasonable' for that section of society, to pay the same amount, [in taxes etc] as those who do own property?

Or that:

Those who do not own property, or have a mortgage, should be refunded by the government, for the devaluation of the pound in their pockets, because of Quantative Easing.

Or work out an equation whereby the people whom are priced out of housing, should have their income taxes offset by some method, which takes into account the 'unreasonable' position that the government have placed a certain section of scoiety in?

Would it be theoretically possible?

You could make the above argument very easily and many have made the argument on here. I have never heard a decent counter to the argument, though i have seen a few attempts

Further -

Imo, there is a watertight argument that the only people who should be paying taxes are the owners of real estate property.

These solid arguments have been around for about 100 years, but i don't think the British people are paying much attention to logic or morality in this area

Edited by Stars

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You could make the above argument very easily and many have made the argument on here. I have never heard a decent counter to the argument, though i have seen a few attempts

Imo, there is a watertight argument that the only people who should be paying taxes are the owners of real estate property.

These solid arguments have been around for about 100 years, but i don't think the British people are paying much attention to logic or morality in this area

With that kind of pressure, and associated media attention, even if it never got to court, would it push the government towards equilibrium?

Hasten a change to CGT, or IR Increases?

If everyone on here, and the Priced out website, pledged a quid, we could probably get the best legal representation in the country! :D

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Off Topic.

I do actually wonder occasionally if those of us priced out of housing, have some legal recourse against the government?

......//.....

Imagine the attention it would get from the media.

I have said MANY times here on HPC: There could be a recourse to the Law

1 - Crime/Fraud - Criminal Law route: - Priced-out have been excluded THANKS TO cancerous effect of LIAR LOANS: i.e. Person A with LIAR LOAN "buys" property in Street A: Person B HAS TO MATCH THIS PRICE - because of COMPARATIVE PRICING of property - done almost daily by eager EAs and Surveyors...... i.e. Person A's "price" BECOMES THE NORM OVERNIGHT -- NOT ONLY FOR STREET A -- BUT ALSO fo ALL STREETS AND LOCALITIES NEAR STREET A - and further afield. i.e It only takes a few people armed with LIAR LOANS to drive ALL the prices locally - which quickly encompasses MORE AND MORE STREETS, HAMLETS, VILLAGES, TOWNS, CITIES. I.E - IT SPREADS LIKE WILDFIRE --- Like a cancer --- "Price" driven up RAPIDLY even if just 20-40%of "buyers" are armed with LIAR LOANS.

EVERYONE HAS TO MATCH THE "PRICE" SET BY THE PERSON WHO ARTIFICIALLY BOOSTS IT FRAUDULENTLY IN THE FIRST PLACE USING A LIAR LOAN. IT QUICKLY BECAME THE NORM.

THUS --- --- BECAUSE OF THIS VAST FRAUD =-- EVERYONE WAS QUICKLY FORCED INTO OVER-PAYING. I.E. MARKET MANIPULATION BY FRAUD.

2 - Other recourse = European Law --- Price Fixing........

Any clever lawyers out there to facilitate a CLASS ACTION????

I have frequently suggested this over the years..... :rolleyes:

Edited by eric pebble

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Done:

Re: House Prices to be discussed on DP 20/1/11

I'm sure if you are discussing house prices, there will be the usual 'experts' claiming to be speaking on behalf of first-time buyers and demanding that the banks lend more money to home buyers.

Why don't you ask the 'experts' why they believe the problem is a lack of mortgage funding and not the more fundamental problem of housing costs being too high.

As a first-time buyer, I have watched the house price bubble inflate due largely to increasingly risky lending practices over the preceeding decade (e.g. self-cert mortgages, 125% loans etc.). However, I didn't want to burden myself with a millstone of debt in the midst of an unsustainable bubble.

Now the banks have reverted back to sensible lending and I for one am glad, as this is beginning to force average home prices back into line with average wages.

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  • 311 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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