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Mortgage Fraud & Hpi

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Been looking at properties for the past year & making low offers. Increasingly the properties i'm viewing are repos.

For example http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-17816505.html on sale at 65k but sold for 275k in Jan 2008.

Or http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-28671349.html which (i am informed) was remortgaged in 2007 for 425k.

I'm not aware of the full details surrounding the 2 cases above but i suspect that if a person could do it once (over valuation from a Chartered Surveyor together with loose lending standards from mortgage supplier) they could do it several times & when the game was finally up, disappear into the sunset with a tidy lump sum.

Now only the 1st example was a bona fide transaction in that it made it onto the official land registry figures and thus had an influence on the published indices. However, in both cases the banks have received a kicking. What i wonder is how prevalent this was. With repo levels not as high as expected (yet), because of bank forebearance, then can we expect to see more examples like the above?

Unclear

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then can we expect to see more examples like the above?

Unclear

I'm aware that just as in the US, organised crime (and disorganised crime) became aware of the ease of taking money off the Banks if you could line up a friendly valuer and solicitor. Many many more of these to come in the UK in my view.

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Haven't actually seen this myself, and I am in the thick of sorting out mortgage disasters.

Don't deny that opportunities were taken, but surprisingly the people I talk to never raise this kind of activity.

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Maybe they are all BTLs. Mortgages based on projected income/rental, possibly overstated, with valuations base on very low yields. Probably all assets transferred into special purpose property companies to absolve the owners of the original property of responsibility. A trust or partnership will own that company and have received a special dividend to suck up the released cash and then distribute it among partners with very limited tax liability. I'm not saying this is what this is, but its the kind of thing that people do.

Been looking at properties for the past year & making low offers. Increasingly the properties i'm viewing are repos.

For example http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-17816505.html on sale at 65k but sold for 275k in Jan 2008.

Or http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-28671349.html which (i am informed) was remortgaged in 2007 for 425k.

I'm not aware of the full details surrounding the 2 cases above but i suspect that if a person could do it once (over valuation from a Chartered Surveyor together with loose lending standards from mortgage supplier) they could do it several times & when the game was finally up, disappear into the sunset with a tidy lump sum.

Now only the 1st example was a bona fide transaction in that it made it onto the official land registry figures and thus had an influence on the published indices. However, in both cases the banks have received a kicking. What i wonder is how prevalent this was. With repo levels not as high as expected (yet), because of bank forebearance, then can we expect to see more examples like the above?

Unclear

Edited by fallingbuzzard

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Mortgage Fraud & LIAR LOANS = Endemic. In fact - THE HIGH OCTANE FUEL THAT HAS BROUGHT THE WEST TO ITS KNEES......

The Ongoing Cover Up of the Truth Behind the Financial Crisis May Lead to Another Crash.

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2009/10/ongoing-cover-up-of-truth-behind.html

The Crime of Our Time: Was the Economic Collapse "Indeed, Criminal?"

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15676

+ see this;

http://investmentwatchblog.com/economist-galbraith-there-will-be-no-recovery-until-we-use-the-word-fraud-regularly-and-consistently-otherwise-the-endemic-problem-will-deepen-and-accelerate/

Edited by eric pebble

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Pricing Error Surely?

Property is cheaper in this area but a 4 bedroom flat for this price?

It's above a shop.

It's not really a 4 bed flat it's a three bed with the kitchen moved into the lounge.

It's CT band A so I don't see how anyone could have been fooled into thinking 275K was appropriate.

tim

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Haven't actually seen this myself, and I am in the thick of sorting out mortgage disasters.

Don't deny that opportunities were taken, but surprisingly the people I talk to never raise this kind of activity.

Okay cuckoo,

What sort of disasters are you seeing? Ones due to excessive spending, or due to reductions in income, or liar loan disasters where the borrower never had a chance to repay the loan?

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It's above a shop.

It's not really a 4 bed flat it's a three bed with the kitchen moved into the lounge.

It's CT band A so I don't see how anyone could have been fooled into thinking 275K was appropriate.

tim

"guaranteed no checks"....bound to miss a few obvious scams I would have thought.

then again, there is no sub prime in the UK.

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Been looking at properties for the past year & making low offers. Increasingly the properties i'm viewing are repos.

For example http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-17816505.html on sale at 65k but sold for 275k in Jan 2008.

Or http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-28671349.html which (i am informed) was remortgaged in 2007 for 425k.

I'm not aware of the full details surrounding the 2 cases above but i suspect that if a person could do it once (over valuation from a Chartered Surveyor together with loose lending standards from mortgage supplier) they could do it several times & when the game was finally up, disappear into the sunset with a tidy lump sum.

Now only the 1st example was a bona fide transaction in that it made it onto the official land registry figures and thus had an influence on the published indices. However, in both cases the banks have received a kicking. What i wonder is how prevalent this was. With repo levels not as high as expected (yet), because of bank forebearance, then can we expect to see more examples like the above?

Unclear

This is the tip of the ice burgh there was massive fraud in the St Annes area .i know of at least 4 other properties bought as single properties cut into flats and sold as investments to punters down South at well inflated prices with so called assured rents, the rents at around £1200 per month,They have never rented for more than £500 look at . flat 7 344 clifton Drive North on with Reeds Rains it will sell for about £60,000 last sold in 2007 for over £200,000 There are loads of these being dripped fed on to the market.

Edited by barrabus

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This is the tip of the ice burgh there was massive fraud in the St Annes area .i know of at least 4 other properties bought as single properties cut into flats and sold as investments to punters down South at well inflated prices with so called assured rents, the rents at around £1200 per month,They have never rented for more than £500 look at . flat 7 344 clifton Drive North on with Reeds Rains it will sell for about £60,000 last sold in 2007 for over £200,000 There are loads of these being dripped fed on to the market.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Fraud, fraud, fraud.... everywhere..... :rolleyes:

Fraud begats fraud...

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:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Fraud, fraud, fraud.... everywhere..... :rolleyes:

Fraud begats fraud...

I asked the FSA for a list of the names and addresses of mortgage brokers they had banned. They don't bother keeping a list :lol:

They would have to google to find out who and where they were

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=%22mortgage%22+%22final+notice%22+%22section+56%22+site%3Awww.fsa.gov.uk%2Fpubs%2Ffinal&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq

"section 206" will relate to financial penalties against firms, "section 66" fines against individuals

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I asked the FSA for a list of the names and addresses of mortgage brokers they had banned. They don't bother keeping a list :lol:

They would have to google to find out who and where they were

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=%22mortgage%22+%22final+notice%22+%22section+56%22+site%3Awww.fsa.gov.uk%2Fpubs%2Ffinal&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq

"section 206" will relate to financial penalties against firms, "section 66" fines against individuals

Jeeeezss ---- The FSA are such a bunch of numpties... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

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I'm aware that just as in the US, organised crime (and disorganised crime) became aware of the ease of taking money off the Banks if you could line up a friendly valuer and solicitor. Many many more of these to come in the UK in my view.

...like these.... <_<

Please respect FT.com's ts&cs and copyright policy which allow you to: share links; copy content for personal use; & redistribute limited extracts.

Chelsea Building Society hit by £41m mortgage fraud

Published: August 21 2009 11:44 | Last updated: August 21 2009 19:49

Chelsea Building Society has become the latest lender to be hit by mortgage fraud, taking a £41m charge, which pushed the mutual into a first-half loss of £26m.

The Chelsea, which recently lost its chief executive and was downgraded by ratings agency Moody’s, said it had uncovered fraud on hundreds of buy-to-let mortgages dating from 2006 to 2008. Many of the loans were on new-build homes in northern cities such as Manchester and Leeds.

Typically, the frauds involved third-party surveyors, solicitors and other intermediaries artificially inflating the value of the properties. The society said the “vast majority relate to professional collusion” and could have involved intermediaries taking “unofficial fees” from developers.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cf9bd49e-8e3a-11de-87d0-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1DhyyLpJn

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I'm aware that just as in the US, organised crime (and disorganised crime) became aware of the ease of taking money off the Banks if you could line up a friendly valuer and solicitor. Many many more of these to come in the UK in my view.

It certainly seems to have been easier and more profitable than entering the premises wearing a balaclava and waving a pistol.

There will be no prosecutions in the UK. It was so rife that there are not enough prisons to hold everyone complicit in the the fraud. In fact, there would be more people in prison than roaming the streets.

Crime pays.

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I seem to remember reading that 40% of mortgages are self cert, or some high percentage. I emailed my MP saying that all mortgages from 2000 on should be investigated, and all the fiddled salary loans should be prosecuted. The law has been broken, and in a civilised society those responsible should be prosecuted.

I wonder if there is a way to get this more into the public eye.

These loans must have played a major part in driving prices up.

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Looking for isolated cases of fraud is a bit like trawling the court records of the 3rd Reich seeking out evidence of violent crime.

The whole British economy from 2000 onwards was based on a fundamentally fraudulent principle - that house price inflation alone could sustain indefinite economic growth. Sometime around 2001 this idea became economic and political orthodoxy, and still in the minds of politicians economic growth and HPI are inseparable. That's why they will happily burn public services, infrastructure, NHS, education, but will still pump 100s of billions into banking in order to support higher house prices.

HPI on UK scale could not occur without fraud at the systemic level-operated by banks, allowed by regulators and encouraged (and ultimately financed) by government.

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I seem to remember reading that 40% of mortgages are self cert, or some high percentage. I emailed my MP saying that all mortgages from 2000 on should be investigated, and all the fiddled salary loans should be prosecuted. The law has been broken, and in a civilised society those responsible should be prosecuted.

Apparently the law clearly states that Mortgage fraud alone is not against the law - you have to have committed the fraud and have appeared on BBC1s 'The Apprentice'.

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Apparently the law clearly states that Mortgage fraud alone is not against the law - you have to have committed the fraud and have appeared on BBC1s 'The Apprentice'.

Clearly this is related to the law which states that you cannot be an illegal immigrant unless you have appeared as a contestant on 'The X-Factor'.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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