Labour - Pension Age To Rise To 67

[Vivaldo]

After all, do our leaders ever get their ideas from any other country?

[BuyingBear]

After all, do our leaders ever get their ideas from any other country?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whilst the unfunded gold plated public sector schemes will still remain at 60 with everyone actually retired by the age of 55 anyway, nice.

[Jason]

What does everyone think to the retirement age in the public sector? Should it be increased to 65 (from 60)?

I personally disagree with the proposed strikes (not that I have a say). I think the public sector should count themseleves lucky, with their pensions guaranteed.

With private pensions not paying what people expect, having to work longer past 65 to make up the shortfall, I don't think the public sector should be complaining. They'll get no support from those who have to work past 60 - isn't that almost everyone in the private sector!?!

[the end is a bit nigher]

for a public sector worker on £23k their pension is worth a further £8k per annum salary (i.e. what u would have to earn to buildup your own pension to get the same benefits as them)

[oracle]

After all, do our leaders ever get their ideas from any other country?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well they're considering legalising euthanasia too.......I guess that'll reduce the pension bill a bit as well.(harsh but fairly accurate methinks)

...and I suppose the complacency about bird flu will do for a few more OAP's which the government will be quietly pleased about too.

Edited September 18, 2005 by oracle

[SarahBell]

Nah OAPs don't go out enough to get bird flu. The risk will be taken to them by specially trained "visitors"

[oracle]

[on a slightly more sinister note,I was slightly jesting about the lack of action concerning bird flu but on giving it more thought I reaslised something.

...if little old lady corks it the will is split between the beneficiaries,and that includes sale of property/assets.

when next of kin etc get this money what are they going to do with it????......easy,spend it all on cars,holidays(and probably a job-lot of lemsip!)

...it's the ultimate in MEW/EQUITY RELEASE!!!!.....cunning!

the government will cream it in VAT,IHT,and less pension expenditure.

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

I think the public sector should count themseleves lucky, with their pensions guaranteed.

When the pension funds run out of money just put an additional levy on council tax payers to make up the shortfall, as the Fire Service`s pension fund in London.

[50:50]

What does everyone think to the retirement age in the public sector? Should it be increased to 65 (from 60)?

I personally disagree with the proposed strikes (not that I have a say).  I think the public sector should count themseleves lucky, with their pensions guaranteed.

With private pensions not paying what people expect, having to work longer past 65 to make up the shortfall, I don't think the public sector should be complaining.  They'll get no support from those who have to work past 60 - isn't that almost everyone in the private sector!?!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I work in the public sector and I can inform you that our pensions are by no means guarenteed nor does everyone retire at 60.

Since I started work 5 years ago our pension conditions have been changed twice, I am not at all confident that the government will honour its pension obligations when I reach retirement in 35 years (when I will be 63 BTW). I fully expect the government will increase the retirement age as it has been talked about for some time.

[brainclamp]

I work in the public sector and I can inform you that our pensions are by no means guarenteed nor does everyone retire at 60.

Since I started work 5 years ago our pension conditions have been changed twice, I am not at all confident that the government will honour its pension obligations when I reach retirement in 35 years (when I will be 63 BTW).  I fully expect the government will increase the retirement age as it has been talked about for some time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nearly all of the 5.8 million people in the public sector have a retirement age of 60 with an index linked final salary pension, if not 55. Any changes the goverment makes will not take effect till 2018 at the earliest.

[Jason]

I work in the public sector and I can inform you that our pensions are by no means guarenteed nor does everyone retire at 60.

Since I started work 5 years ago our pension conditions have been changed twice, I am not at all confident that the government will honour its pension obligations when I reach retirement in 35 years (when I will be 63 BTW).  I fully expect the government will increase the retirement age as it has been talked about for some time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I am wrong in what I say I will happily be corrected by yourself (or others).

You say you are not confident that your pension is guaranteed? Don't public pensions come from current taxes? So the tax I pay today are paying for those currently retired. Because of this I have never known of a public pensions shortfall, and retired people receiving less than stipulated.

However, I do know of several private pensions where they have received less than expected. Private pensions are not guaranteed. Even the final 'guaranteed' salary pensions rely on the liquidity of the pension pot, unlike the liquidity of the government/treasury as is with public pensions.

I may sound a little bitter, and I don't want to get at public workers like yourself. The public sector do offer a great service in most cases (nurses/teachers/police/fire-people), but I do dislike it when I read how they are unhappy have to work a few extra years. Whereas myself, aged 24, face a very bleak retirement, as do many in my generation.

[50:50]

Nearly all of the 5.8 million people in the public sector have a retirement age of 60 with an index linked final salary pension, if not 55. Any changes the goverment makes will not take effect till 2018 at the earliest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you provide a link to the official source for your figures? I suspect those who will retire at 60 will already be near retirement age. Some government departments tend to take on a lot of university graduates now so the younger public sector workers are likely to have a higher retirement age as they started work later.

The latest round of pension changes will come into effect in 2013.

Edited September 19, 2005 by 50:50

[50:50]

If I am wrong in what I say I will happily be corrected by yourself (or others).

You say you are not confident that your pension is guaranteed? Don't public pensions come from current taxes? So the tax I pay today are paying for those currently retired.  Because of this I have never known of a public pensions shortfall, and retired people receiving less than stipulated.

However, I do know of several private pensions where they have received less than expected.  Private pensions are not guaranteed.  Even the final 'guaranteed' salary pensions rely on the liquidity of the pension pot, unlike the liquidity of the government/treasury as is with public pensions.

I may sound a little bitter, and I don't want to get at public workers like yourself.  The public sector do offer a great service in most cases (nurses/teachers/police/fire-people), but I do dislike it when I read how they are unhappy have to work a few extra years.  Whereas myself, aged 24, face a very bleak retirement, as do many in my generation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, you are correct in what you say in that public pensions come from current taxes and it all works ok at the moment but who is to say that will be the case in the future. The government have consistantly been trying to errode pension benifits since I started work and I still have a long way to go to retirement (I'm only 27 myself).

Luckily I am paid more than the average nurses/teacher/police/fire-person but if I was to do my equivelent job in the private sector I would be paid considerably more than I get now and I could make my own arrangements for my retirement fund. The civil service pension makes up for the lower pay and if they take it away I and many others would leave pretty quickly.

[Jason]

Yes, you are correct in what you say in that public pensions come from current taxes and it all works ok at the moment but who is to say that will be the case in the future.  The government have consistantly been trying to errode pension benifits since I started work and I still have a long way to go to retirement (I'm only 27 myself).

Luckily I am paid more than the average nurses/teacher/police/fire-person but if I was to do my equivelent job in the private sector I would be paid considerably more than I get now and I could make my own arrangements for my retirement fund.  The civil service pension makes up for the lower pay and if they take it away I and many others would leave pretty quickly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the public sector was paid less than the private sector, I would agree to the extra benefits. But public sector workers earn 17% more than equivalent private sector jobs according to this article.

[50:50]

If the public sector was paid less than the private sector, I would agree to the extra benefits.  But public sector workers earn 17% more than equivalent private sector jobs according to this article.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It depends on the job I suppose but I suspect its just more BBC misinformation. I've looked into this regularly and I'd probably get about £10k more per year if I was to do my job in the private sector.

[New Darker Law]

If the public sector was paid less than the private sector, I would agree to the extra benefits.  But public sector workers earn 17% more than equivalent private sector jobs according to this article.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

For goodness sake Jason. If the public sector is so damned great why not get a job with them and stop whinging?

In my experience, whilst there can be highly paid jobs in the public sector, most of these qualified individuals could earn a good deal more in salary by working for the private sector. In general salaries are still poorer in the public sector.

I am not happy with unfunded pension schemes either, but we have this system now and I sure as hell wouldn't want anyone denied a pension in old age.

Public sector pensions in all walks have been changing in recent years. Progress is slow, but it is happening.

Now I must declare my hand. I work in the private sector.

NDL

[Jason]

For goodness sake Jason.  If the public sector is so damned great why not get a job with them and stop whinging?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, I may just do that. Where can I discuss these things if I can't discuss them here?

I don't have much else say about public & private pension differences, so I won't disturb you any more with this subject.

Edited September 19, 2005 by Jason

[Elizabeth]

In my experience, whilst there can be highly paid jobs in the public sector, most of these qualified individuals could earn a good deal more in salary by working for the private sector.  In general salaries are still poorer in the public sector.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, the money's crap, but the people are nicer !

[aclwalker]

It's probably a lot harder to compare public sector with private sector than it used to be since there's very little left in the public sector that is also done in the private sector. There is very little government chemistry left, for example.

Also, lots of work is simply outsourced to the private sector now anyway, for example government IT work. Are these sub-contracted jobs then counted as private or public sector? You never know with the government/BBC these days. Basically, the BBC article, like most 'official' reports should not be trusted in the slightest.

It was certainly true in the past that the relatively poor pay in the public sector was 'compensated' for by better and more secure pension arrangements.

We have all seen the "tax abuse" postings, but these are hardly representative of the typical public sector job and are simply there to provide jobs for the boys. I seriously doubt if the typical public sector job is all milk and honey. For a start, why would the government need to pay over the odds (in relation to the private sector) if there has been general downward pressure on wages due to outsourcing to Asia and importing of labour?

I think the public sector has got every right to complain about erosion of their agreed terms. Is anyone here seriously saying they wouldn't do the same?

Most of the arguments against such protests from the public sector seem to boil down to "their pension scheme is better than mine so they should just shut up".

Hardly a convincing or balanced argument.

EDIT: spelling

Edited September 19, 2005 by aclwalker

[Michael]

If the public sector was paid less than the private sector, I would agree to the extra benefits.  But public sector workers earn 17% more than equivalent private sector jobs according to this article.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

public sector jobs even with London weightings are relatively poorly paid compared to similar private sector jobs in the London area.....However if you move to Cornwall or Wales or Newcastle the same job will pay a lot more than most private sector jobs in those areas