The Observer - Report Or Advert?

[Average Joe]

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/cash/story/...1572356,00.html

well now theyve opened my eyes to that little gem, i think i'll pop straight down the bank first thing and get myself a nice big mortgage!

[Pluto]

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/cash/story/...1572356,00.html

well now theyve opened my eyes to that little gem, i think i'll pop straight down the bank first thing and get myself a nice big mortgage!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

" But in the very near future we will be issuing certificates from our branches that will be valid for 28 days. Homebuyers can show these to estate agents to prove they will be able to access sufficient funds to buy the home they are interested in"

That's it! Great...I'm running down there first thing Monday am to get my certitcate for a Mortgage at 5 to 7X my salary. I'm gonna run down to the EA's office and wave that bad boy in his face. Yeah, that's what I'm gonna do...Yeah...I'm going to on that housing lladder at last. Then all I need to do is fill the forms in for the MEW and I'm set for life.

[oldmisery]

surely income is a VERY good indication of what people can afford.

[theChuz]

I dont like this one bit :angry:

However, those with debts and children fare less well. The single borrower on £25,000 a year with £100 a month loan payments and £1,000 on credit cards would be able to borrow £103,000 through the new method, or £226,000 if his or her salary was bumped up to £50,000. Likewise, a couple with a joint income of £60,000 with no children could borrow £221,000. But a couple with one child could borrow £213,000 and this drops to £205,000 for two children and £197,000 for three, reflecting the cost of children on a family's budget.

So, on 25K by the standard rule of 4 times income(tops) you could borrow 100K.

Now, with £100 a month debt, plus £1000 on credit cards you can borrow 103K

They all want lining up on a wall and shot. This is extra fuel to a fire that was finally dying out. Will have to keep an eye on this.

[Bearfacts]

I really wouldnt get too excited about this or any other 'new products'. I believe some lenders have been lending upto 9 x income, where parents secure the loan against their homes. In any case 'self-cert' mortgages have been available for ages and they basically meant that you could borrow whatever you fancied regardless of your income, the onus was on you to ensure that you could pay it back. Whatever they try now, they can't actually make the lending criteria any looser than they have been for many years. Infact the likelihood is that lending criteria will be tightened in coming years.

[Vivaldo]

Why can't we end up with 10 times income multiples before the crash, like Japan did.

However, we've had self-cert for a while, but does self-cert offer worse rates than standard mortgages.

Time to regulate the lenders - they're evil!

[theChuz]

Its the principle that annoys me abit but never mind ey... gold and bankcruptcy stocks.

Labi sifre - Something inside so strong is always a good pick me up song. I am aware that i demean the song a little by applying it to our Economic / HPI mess

The higher you build your barriers

The taller I become

The farther you take my rights away

The faster I will run

You can deny me

You can decide to turn your face away

No matter, cos there's....

Something inside so strong

I know that I can make it

Tho' you're doing me wrong, so wrong

You thought that my pride was gone

Oh no, something inside so strong

Oh oh oh oh oh something inside so strong

The more you refuse to hear my voice

The louder I will sing

You hide behind walls of Jericho

Your lies will come tumbling

Deny my place in time

You squander wealth that's mine

My light will shine so brightly

It will blind you

Cos there's......

Something inside so strong

I know that I can make it

Tho' you're doing me wrong, so wrong

You thought that my pride was gone

Oh no, something inside so strong

Oh oh oh oh oh something inside so strong

Brothers and sisters

When they insist we're just not good enough

When we know better

Just look 'em in the eyes and say

I'm gonna do it anyway x 2

Something inside so strong

And I know that I can make it

Tho' you're doing me wrong, so wrong

You thought that my pride was gone

Oh no, something inside so strong

Oh oh oh oh oh something inside so strong

Brothers and sisters

When they insist we're just good not enough

When we know better

Just look 'em in the eyes and say

I'm gonna do it anyway x 4

Because there's something inside so strong

And I know that I can make it

Tho' you're doing me, so wrong

Oh no, something inside so strong

Oh oh oh oh oh something inside so strong

[Dicky]

I really wouldnt get too excited about this or any other 'new products'. I believe some lenders have been  lending upto 9 x income, where parents secure the loan against their homes. In any case 'self-cert' mortgages have been available for ages and they basically meant that you could borrow whatever you fancied regardless of your income, the onus was on you to ensure that you could pay it back. Whatever they try now, they can't actually make the lending criteria any looser than they have been for many years. Infact the likelihood is that lending criteria will be tightened in coming years.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Selfcerts came into the public domain when a BBC reported uncovered the corrupt business in late 2003, the intent of the program was to highlight the shady business of EA's their mortgage advisers and lenders, instead it encournaged more and more to take out such loans as a quick way onto the houseing ladder, this explains the 20% rise between 2003 and mid 2004, unfortuntely the BOE had other ideas when they found out about such practices by raising IR, who wouldn't have thought the rise in IR from 3.5% to 4.75% would have killed this robust economy Gordon kept harping on about, Self certs and IO loans are more common place than first thought, it now counts for 50% of all mortgages. As much as I'd hate to say it, if IR don't fall soon we're going to have the mother of all recessions, just look at the u-turn on council tax reform, the rebanding of houses in the South East would have meant the average household forking out about £240 extra a year, that would normally be considered chump change but so volitile now is the economy even £20 a month extra is considered risky.

The party is well and truely over we can now longer borrow our way out of recession... expect more and more hor$e sh1t articles like these, it usually marks the beginiing of the end.

Edited September 18, 2005 by Dicky

[Golden Shower]

Here's a better way for the banks to do their calculations;

Ask client to list and sum up all their monthly expenses.

Take the remainder of the client's and keep it for themselves!

[theChuz]

I just realised my playlist on the computer is quite fitting

Labi sifre - Something inside so strong

You hide behind walls of Jericho

Your lies will come tumbling

Deny my place in time

You squander wealth that's mine

My light will shine so brightly

It will blind you

Martika -Toy soliders From the government?

Step by step, heart to heart, left right left,

We all fall down like toy soldiers.

It wasn't my intention to mislead you,

It never should have been this way. What can I say?

It's true, I did extend the invitation,

I never knew how long you'd stay.

When you hear temptation call,

It's your heart that takes, takes a fall.

Won't you come out and play with me

Step by step, heart to heart, left right left,

We all fall down like toy soldiers.

Bit by bit torn apart, we never win,

But the battle wages on for toy soldiers.

It's getting hard to wake up in the morning,

My head is spinning constantly. How can it be

How could I be so blind to this addiction

If I don't stop the next one's gonna be me.

Only emptiness remains, it replaces all, all the pain.

Won't you come out and play with me

Step by step, heart to heart, left right left,

We all fall down like toy soldiers.

Bit by bit torn apart, we never win,

But the battle wages on for toy soldiers.

Only emptiness remains, it replaces all, all the pain.

Won't you come out and Play with me?

Step by step, heart to heart, left right left,

We all fall down like toy soldiers.

Bit by bit torn apart, we never win,

But the battle wages on for toy soldiers.

Step by step, heart to heart, left right left,

We all fall down like toy soldiers.

Bit by bit torn apart, we never win,

But the battle wages on for toy soldiers.

Smiths - how soon is now

I am the son and heir

of nothing in particular

You shut your mouth

how can you say

I go about things the wrong way

When you say it's gonna happen "now"

well, when exactly do you mean?

see I've already waited too long

Rolling stone / Inkubus Sukkubus - Paint it black

I see a red door and I want it painted black

No colors anymore I want them to turn black

I see the girls walk by dressed in their summer clothes

I have to turn my head until my darkness goes

I see a line of cars and they’re all painted black

With flowers and my love both never to come back

I see people turn their heads and quickly look away

Like a new born baby it just happens ev’ry day

I look inside myself and see my heart is black

I see my red door and it has been painted black

Maybe then I’ll fade away and not have to face the facts

It’s not easy facin’ up when your whole world is black

Echo & the Bunnymen - People are strange

nuff said really.

Tatu - All the things she said.

All the things she said

All the things she said

Runnin' through my head (3x)

All the things she said

All the things she said

Runnin' through my head (2x)

All the things she said

All the things she said

This is not enough,

enough

Thats my current playlist

Edited September 18, 2005 by theChuz

[apom]

surely income is a VERY good indication of what people can afford.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interest rates change.. affordability should be taking into account.

The economy has never allowed prices to be sustained above 4times..

and can't..

and these new loan amounts still don't cover the current prices.

at all..

Irrelevent.

the multiples mentioned above are just over 4 times salary.

In Devon average two bed flat is £145,000

This is the average first time home.

The average first time salary (age 25-35) is less then £20,000 actually its not even £18,000

The lending.. sorry first time buyers are now at 6% country wide..

and not many of them are using mortgages that reflect their income at all.

"Self Cert" or lie to buy...

this is of no importance.

[Guest The dude]

Its the principle that annoys me abit but never mind ey... gold and bankcruptcy stocks.

Labi sifre - Something inside so strong is always a good pick me up song. I am aware that i demean the song a little by applying it to our Economic / HPI mess

The higher you build your barriers

The taller I become

The farther you take my rights away

The faster I will run

You can deny me

You can decide to turn your face away

No matter, cos there's....

Something inside so strong

I know that I can make it

Tho' you're doing me wrong, so wrong

You thought that my pride was gone

Oh no, something inside so strong

Oh oh oh oh oh something inside so strong

The more you refuse to hear my voice

The louder I will sing

You hide behind walls of Jericho

Your lies will come tumbling

Deny my place in time

You squander wealth that's mine

My light will shine so brightly

It will blind you

Cos there's......

Something inside so strong

I know that I can make it

Tho' you're doing me wrong, so wrong

You thought that my pride was gone

Oh no, something inside so strong

Oh oh oh oh oh something inside so strong

Brothers and sisters

When they insist we're just not good enough

When we know better

Just look 'em in the eyes and say

I'm gonna do it anyway x 2

Something inside so strong

And I know that I can make it

Tho' you're doing me wrong, so wrong

You thought that my pride was gone

Oh no, something inside so strong

Oh oh oh oh oh something inside so strong

Brothers and sisters

When they insist we're just good not enough

When we know better

Just look 'em in the eyes and say

I'm gonna do it anyway x 4

Because there's something inside so strong

And I know that I can make it

Tho' you're doing me, so wrong

Oh no, something inside so strong

Oh oh oh oh oh something inside so strong

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chuz...nice song..the right kind of defiant sentiment....but more Smiths please!

Edited September 18, 2005 by The dude

[zorn]

surely income is a VERY good indication of what people can afford.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, it's terrible. A single person on £50,000 per year with no children or debt can afford very much more than a couple on £25,000 each with three children, a £8,000 car loan, £15,000 on credit cards and another £10,000 unsecured loan.

[uro_who]

The problem with the affordability mortgage is that it is even more likely to tie you into being a mortgage slave than an income multiplier. The reason that lending is traditionally 2 - 2.5 x joint or because it gives some leeway for having children, being part time, temporary loss of income or overtime etc.

What these b@st@rds are suggesting, will lock you into no car, holiday, children, no wife on part time etc. for a very long while. The only thing that would allow you to change your circumstances is increase in salary through promotion. Try that in a recession.

But I agree, its so 1990. The writing is well and truly on the wall. The usual suckers have already taken the bait, letsw keep this rolling by trying to find some more suckers to turn into addicts.

[Guest muttley]

letsw keep this rolling by trying to find some more suckers to turn into addicts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you just break your Hippocratic oath?

[uro_who]

Did you just break your Hippocratic oath?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think there were several oaths in that.

[Guest muttley]

I think there were several oaths in that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK

I won't tell Hippocrates if you don't.

[Smell the Fear]

I just realised my playlist on the computer is quite fitting 

Labi sifre - Something inside so strong

You hide behind walls of Jericho

Your lies will come tumbling

Deny my place in time

You squander wealth that's mine

My light will shine so brightly

It will blind you

Martika -Toy soliders   From the government?

Step by step, heart to heart, left right left,

We all fall down like toy soldiers.

It wasn't my intention to mislead you,

It never should have been this way. What can I say?

It's true, I did extend the invitation,

I never knew how long you'd stay.

When you hear temptation call,

It's your heart that takes, takes a fall.

Won't you come out and play with me

Step by step, heart to heart, left right left,

We all fall down like toy soldiers.

Bit by bit torn apart, we never win,

But the battle wages on for toy soldiers.

It's getting hard to wake up in the morning,

My head is spinning constantly. How can it be

How could I be so blind to this addiction

If I don't stop the next one's gonna be me.

Only emptiness remains, it replaces all, all the pain.

Won't you come out and play with me

Step by step, heart to heart, left right left,

We all fall down like toy soldiers.

Bit by bit torn apart, we never win,

But the battle wages on for toy soldiers.

Only emptiness remains, it replaces all, all the pain.

Won't you come out and Play with me?

Step by step, heart to heart, left right left,

We all fall down like toy soldiers.

Bit by bit torn apart, we never win,

But the battle wages on for toy soldiers.

Step by step, heart to heart, left right left,

We all fall down like toy soldiers.

Bit by bit torn apart, we never win,

But the battle wages on for toy soldiers.

Smiths  - how soon is now

I am the son and heir

of nothing in particular

You shut your mouth

how can you say

I go about things the wrong way

When you say it's gonna happen "now"

well, when exactly do you mean?

see I've already waited too long

Rolling stone / Inkubus Sukkubus - Paint it black

I see a red door and I want it painted black

No colors anymore I want them to turn black

I see the girls walk by dressed in their summer clothes

I have to turn my head until my darkness goes

I see a line of cars and they’re all painted black

With flowers and my love both never to come back

I see people turn their heads and quickly look away

Like a new born baby it just happens ev’ry day

I look inside myself and see my heart is black

I see my red door and it has been painted black

Maybe then I’ll fade away and not have to face the facts

It’s not easy facin’ up when your whole world is black

Echo & the Bunnymen - People are strange

nuff said really.

Tatu - All the things she said.

All the things she said

All the things she said

Runnin' through my head (3x)

All the things she said

All the things she said

Runnin' through my head (2x)

All the things she said

All the things she said

This is not enough,

enough

Thats my current playlist 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a slightly disturbing playlist The Chuz.

Makes me think of the kind of thing the murderer in Silence of the Lambs would listen to in his basement, wearing a silk negligee and stroking his poodle.