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Life After 1980S Iranian Terrorist Siege

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I thought this was interesting;

iranian-embassy.jpg

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1082475/Surviving-Iranian-Embassy-siege-gunman-freed-enjoy-life-sight-seeing-benefits.html

Fowzi Nejad, 51, has been granted parole after serving 28 years for his part in the hostage-taking,

It is certainly cheaper to give him £1000 a month benefits than to keep him in prison. The guy was a young man, 23, when he was involved in the seige, more than half a life-time ago. One has to allow for people to change and grow up. I'm certainly not the person I was when I was 23.

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No, that is right. That is why I didn't put up an outrageous headline in the thread. I hope he does some charity work with his free time if he is unemployed still - that's what I'd be doing.

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IIRC the majority of them were dupes rather than hard core terrorists who were told to go in and wave a few guns around then they'd be given a few quid and safe passage out. Didn't turn out that way.

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It is certainly cheaper to give him £1000 a month benefits than to keep him in prison. The guy was a young man, 23, when he was involved in the seige, more than half a life-time ago. One has to allow for people to change and grow up. I'm certainly not the person I was when I was 23.

It's interesting to question whether lifers do 'grow up' in prison. If the essence of growing up is having one's views and actions moulded by experience, then lifers certainly don't gain that experience.

Being coshed into submission by the instruments of the State is not the same as growing up and those who have spoken to lifers to started young will know what I mean.

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IIRC the majority of them were dupes rather than hard core terrorists who were told to go in and wave a few guns around then they'd be given a few quid and safe passage out. Didn't turn out that way.

How interesting. I replied to this, and then it disappeared. I'll try again.

Yes, it does seem so. It looks very much like the SAS more or less executed 2 of them well and truly after they had surrendered and thrown away their weapons. 2 of the other terrorist deaths were a bit dodgy too. The guy who has just beeen released is very lucky to be alive. The SAS bloke who had hold of him was taking him back inside to finish the job until it was pointed out to him that the world's media had a whole heap of cameras pointed at him...

Looks like both sides got to send their respective messages through these young guys.

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How interesting. I replied to this, and then it disappeared. I'll try again.

Yes, it does seem so. It looks very much like the SAS more or less executed 2 of them well and truly after they had surrendered and thrown away their weapons. 2 of the other terrorist deaths were a bit dodgy too. The guy who has just beeen released is very lucky to be alive. The SAS bloke who had hold of him was taking him back inside to finish the job until it was pointed out to him that the world's media had a whole heap of cameras pointed at him...

Looks like both sides got to send their respective messages through these young guys.

I know we are all supposed to be on the side of fair play and the Geneva convention etc... but if you went into the above scenario to rescue the hostages would you take prisoners? Do you seriously think the SAS plan for taking prisoners during the rescue attempt? It's a military operation and you are their to neutralise the threat.

A dead terrorist can't shoot back, set off a grenade or detonate a bomb. It might be harsh, unsporting to shoot someone who's surrendered but I doubt the team assaulting the building had the manpower to deal with prisoners in a secure manner. How many men would it take to deal with 1 prisoner? This would slow down the team, you lose momentum you lose the advantage. In an assault of this nature speed is all important, you haven't got time to think or be nice, you've got to keep moving, keep the aggression and never slow down.

I'm afraid once you've gone down route of assault there is no being nice or taking prisoners, this guy only got about because some of the hostages liked him and rescued him during the assault. I seem to remember reading that the SAS shot one of the terrorists holding a grenade coming down the stairs, I'm afraid the only option is to neutralise the threat.

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I'm afraid once you've gone down route of assault there is no being nice or taking prisoners, this guy only got about because some of the hostages liked him and rescued him during the assault. I seem to remember reading that the SAS shot one of the terrorists holding a grenade coming down the stairs, I'm afraid the only option is to neutralise the threat.

Normally, I would agree and it is easy to criticize from an armchair, but...

There is a big difference between shooting a terrorist with a grenade (and we will never know whether the guy with the afro on the stairs had a grenade or not - it was the excuse given), and taking two men who were kneeling on the floor with their hands on their heads having thrown their weapons out the window, putting them against a wall and shooting them in the brain stem. There are multiple eye witness accounts of this incident. The fellow who was released from prison was under control and outside of the embassy building, but one of the SAS guys was then going to take him back into the building, out of sight, until he was stopped. Would it be reasonable if he had been killed in those circumstances? I don't see too much difference between that case and the two guys who were kneeling with their hands on their heads inside the building. The surviving terrorist was saved by media presence.

I suspect the SAS were given the order not to take any prisoners to send "a message." From a utilitarian perspective, that may have been a reasonable thing to do. It would certainly give anyone else tinking [sic] of doing something similar pause. From an individual justice perspective, it isn't so clear. The rule of law is important. If you make an exception for one, you implicitly make an exception for all.

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Does anyone really care?

They had all the time in the World to surrender before the SAS attack.

Once the assault was on, it was 'no prisoners'

It sent a powerful message to the World's terrorists.

The deterrent effect probably saved a few lives.

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A dead terrorist can't shoot back, set off a grenade or detonate a bomb. It might be harsh, unsporting to shoot someone who's surrendered but I doubt the team assaulting the building had the manpower to deal with prisoners in a secure manner. How many men would it take to deal with 1 prisoner? This would slow down the team, you lose momentum you lose the advantage. In an assault of this nature speed is all important, you haven't got time to think or be nice, you've got to keep moving, keep the aggression and never slow down.

So by your reckoning when British navy terrorists were caught in Iranian waters it would have been fine to shoot them there and then?

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So by your reckoning when British navy terrorists were caught in Iranian waters it would have been fine to shoot them there and then?

Ken,

What British Terrorists?

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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