Impact Of Second Homes Owners On Communities

[Soton]

From personal experience in the New Forest. Prices are driven up by second home owners particularly 2 up 2 down places which should house young families.

Typically a 2 up 2 down sells for 300k (under 55sqm) .

My street has many second homes empty all week and every time another comes on the market it is sold to a second home buyer aged 45 ish.

The shops suffer , the pubs suffer , the spirit suffers and so does the local school.

As we have a small child it would be great for her to live in an area with other small children but as most homes are now second homes to 45 year old (ish ) owners who buy these 2 up 2 downs for fun out of equity from their first home I doubt this will happen.

The attitude of these people also stinks as they pay no interest in getting involved in the community.

[winkie]

The evidence is happening now. Please re-read the intitial post about 2nd homes contributing to the demise of societies.

Pensioners pay into local businesses.

Empty 2nd homes don't.

A simple enough concept really.

...an empty second home is like the home not existing...a village is made up of the people who permanently live in it, what those people do for a living and where they spend their money.

Someone I know lives in a semi-detached house, the house next door is a second home, they feel like they are living in a detached.

Another lives a similar property and the house is used as a holiday let, they do not know from one week to the next who will be staying there, how noisy they will be etc, etc.

Small village communities require better transport and jobs that will pay enough to pay for the houses, once the work is there, more has to be done to provide affordable housing.....no good having homes without the work or all you will have owning places like this are retired civil servants on index linked pensions a few elderly old natives and rich second homeowners with a splattering of holiday lets...hey ho.

[MrPin]

The evidence is happening now. Please re-read the intitial post about 2nd homes contributing to the demise of societies.

Pensioners pay into local businesses.

Empty 2nd homes don't.

A simple enough concept really.

Yes you are right, and there is a great difference!

[rxe]

Pensioners pay into local businesses.

Empty 2nd homes don't.

A simple enough concept really.

My last post on the subject, you're really not addressing the points.

Pensioners don't contribute to schools. They don't have children - so schools close.

Pensioners don't go to work, so they don't support the places that cater for the working population - shops, lunch places etc.

Pensioners (generally) don't have large discretionary incomes, so their spending in the local economy is a lot lower than (say) a family

Per above, pensioners have time and are willing to look for a bargain, so they tend to shun the overpriced local shops and head for supermarkets.

By way of example, my Aunt contributed chuff all to the local economy when she lived there. She bought her fags and food (in that order) from a discount chain supermarket, and went for a walk on the beach in the afternoon.

(Note, I have nothing at all against pensioners, I'm simply pointing out the economic reality).

Given the proportion of pensioners on the IoW, I would imagine that this has a far bigger effect than second homes.

Now, second home owners, by definition are pretty affluent. They get their investments fixed, managed and maintained. They spend (large amounts) in local businesses when they are there. Yes, the local businesses will look more like a tourist economy, but what else do you expect on the IoW?

Again, how come you can go to Spain and find local economies that are thriving and expanding despite very significant second home ownership?

I would suggest that rather than railing against second home owners, you look at planning policy and the overall makeup of the population. These are the things that are radically different in Spain.

And again....why does being born in an area give you a right to a cheap house in that area? I'd quite like a nice house in EC1 (yes, I was even born in the middle of London)...but I recognise that this would be an expensive luxury.

[Daft Boy]

Why does the IoW council insist on building so many new homes designated as 'holiday homes' (planning permission preventing year round occupancy)?

goodness knows why. Developers are giving sweeteners somewhere along the line. No affordable housing or extra road or community infrastructure is required in these type of developments so profits can be maximised. large estates of such holiday homes are all empty. Places such as Island Harbour on the Medina river are a disaster. £450K (now £250k) houses that no one buys or wants. Unable to rent them out to local families because of occupancy restrictions and poor facilities.

Prospective second home buyers do not want them because holiday home restrictions make them a bad investment compared to traditional village and sea side properties.

The only upside is that the mainland developers always end up bankrupt. Unfortunately they take a lot of local small suppliers with them

[Daft Boy]

My last post on the subject, you're really not addressing the points.

Pensioners don't contribute to schools. They don't have children - so schools close.

Pensioners don't go to work, so they don't support the places that cater for the working population - shops, lunch places etc.

Pensioners (generally) don't have large discretionary incomes, so their spending in the local economy is a lot lower than (say) a family

Per above, pensioners have time and are willing to look for a bargain, so they tend to shun the overpriced local shops and head for supermarkets.

Again, how come you can go to Spain and find local economies that are thriving and expanding despite very significant second home ownership?

I would suggest that rather than railing against second home owners, you look at planning policy and the overall makeup of the population. These are the things that are radically different in Spain.

And again....why does being born in an area give you a right to a cheap house in that area? I'd quite like a nice house in EC1 (yes, I was even born in the middle of London)...but I recognise that this would be an expensive luxury.

Pensioners , believe it or not, are a natural part of a community. Second home owners are not. They are cuckoos who kick the youngsters out of the nest. That is why there is now an imbalance .

Spain is different. Homes are built specifically for second home owners. They do not buy up the old existing stock from the locals. It would be the same if existing property was bought up by overseas buyers and not replaced with new builds. There is one price for locals and another for overseas buyers. Second home owners money is an addition to the local spanish economy not a poor replacement. It would be great in the UK if a new dwelling was required to be built in the same area for every dwelling sold as a second home to maintain a balance within the community.

[Oh Well :(]

There are some very jealous and bigoted people who post on here.

I have first hand experience of Cornwall over the last 30 years. Second homers spend a lot of money and in fact create local jobs particularly in the building industry. For example small terraced cottages which are damp are renovated at high cost to make second homes. They are small with no parking, no gardens and unsuited for families.

Just look at Redruth if you want to know how Cornwall would be without second home owners. I know plenty of local people from ordinary backgrounds who with a little skill and a lot of hard work own there own homes. There are of course many others who sit back complaining whilst accepting the handouts paid for by the high taxes levied on the rest of us.

[Doctor Gloom]

[quote name=Oh Well ' timestamp='1294494809' post='2847600]

There are some very jealous and bigoted people who post on here.

I have first hand experience of Cornwall over the last 30 years. Second homers spend a lot of money and in fact create local jobs particularly in the building industry. For example small terraced cottages which are damp are renovated at high cost to make second homes. They are small with no parking, no gardens and unsuited for families.

Just look at Redruth if you want to know how Cornwall would be without second home owners. I know plenty of local people from ordinary backgrounds who with a little skill and a lot of hard work own there own homes. There are of course many others who sit back complaining whilst accepting the handouts paid for by the high taxes levied on the rest of us.

How do second home owners spend "a lot of money" in an area in which they merely visit for a few weeks a year. You are suggesting renovation works, which is frankly short term employment for select individuals and not necessarily those who live in that area, and not the whole community en mass who largely suffer when they are not there. Suggeting that second homes create jobs and 'wealth' in local communities is a perposterous claim.

Yes I am a 'peasant' as you are implying, and I certainly would enjoy watching locals suffer as a result as my blinkered actions.

[Doctor Gloom]

If you spend 90% of your income in London and only 10% in Cornwall it has a huge impact. The government needs to make owning second property very expensive. It would be reasonable to charge much higher council tax (2x or 3x). Unfortunately there are ways around everything so enforcement would be difficult.

I think it is upon communities now to pull together, and make their feelings known about the negative impact of 2nd homes has in their areas. On the Isle of Wight we are losing a major island town combined, due to second home ownership. In tight times this is magnifying the problems caused to local businesses, schools and amenities numerous times over. As a result the island has lost an easy 20% of retail revenue for its small businesses are trades, as for rural pubs, many are being forced to shut due to the impact of 2nd homes.

Some people on here seem to think second home owners spend 100% in each place all the time, and seem to think giving a little bit of work to local painter and decorators is enough... it isn't!

[Doctor Gloom]

Why does the IoW council insist on building so many new homes designated as 'holiday homes' (planning permission preventing year round occupancy)?

Probably to reduce the impact on existing rural communities. Sadly the damage has already been done.

[Daft Boy]

I think it is upon communities now to pull together, and make their feelings known about the negative impact of 2nd homes has in their areas. On the Isle of Wight we are losing a major island town combined, due to second home ownership. In tight times this is magnifying the problems caused to local businesses, schools and amenities numerous times over. As a result the island has lost an easy 20% of retail revenue for its small businesses are trades, as for rural pubs, many are being forced to shut due to the impact of 2nd homes.

Some people on here seem to think second home owners spend 100% in each place all the time, and seem to think giving a little bit of work to local painter and decorators is enough... it isn't!

Its not about having a downer on second home owners its about justice. They should be made to pay additional tax to offset the damage they do to local communities. Think of it as community service rather than an ASBO.

[Doctor Gloom]

Given the proportion of pensioners on the IoW, I would imagine that this has a far bigger effect than second homes.

Not a bigger effect, just one that is contributed to... by second home owners. Maybe you're right, we should start culling the elderly just so communities can survive by backfilling with those who do pay into local communities ALL the time.

Joined up thinking, not.

[libspero]

This is a very interesting area, and one I have not yet formed an opinion on.

It is obviously apparent that demand for housing is pushed up by second home buyers in some rural areas.

It is also apparent that many of these communities are (or are becoming) effective holiday resorts, with seasonal demand and oft absent populations.

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

In places like this where asset values are high and earnings are low it's not surprising that many young people choose to up sticks and move to other areas with better employment prospects and more affordability. The question is, would they have travelled in search of better employment prospects anyway? Would many of these places become effective slums without the seasonal trade and higher asset values?

I think were the UK housing/population balance not so acute second home ownership would be no problem at all and it would not be an issue for people to have multiple homes where ever they choose. Given that we struggle to manage either side of the equation, it seems like a bad idea not to at least insist that second home owners pay the same for the privilege, if not slightly more.

The best way to achieve this would probably be to base more of the tax burden on home ownership and less on income.. such as setting council tax at a percentage of home value rather than an arbitrary value across the board. The two problems with this are that it would proportionally hit low earners hardest, and it would be almost impossible to convince people that it would actually be in their interest to do so thus politically hard to implement (although it could probably be slipped through as an "update" to existing council tax, ie, revaluing all houses from scratch since it hasn't been done since 1991.. then introducing a % of value system on the basis that it would save people in small homes money on their tax bill. This % could then be increased gradually up to a maximum of say 2 or 3% while reducing income taxes. If second home owners had to pay 2-3% of the homes value every year it would certainly make a lot of people think twice).

[Doctor Gloom]

Its not about having a downer on second home owners its about justice. They should be made to pay additional tax to offset the damage they do to local communities. Think of it as community service rather than an ASBO.

There goes my chances of seeing flaming dwellings, spoilsport

Second home owners don't want to pay the extra tax and oppose it vigerously even on here, nor care about the communities they destroy as noted by a few more people on here. People have a downer on them for these reasons. If they vote for change they would be doing themselves a hugh favour in times of blight. But I cannot see this anytime soon. They will be viewed largely as a cancer of the community until things improve on their part to combat the problems caused.

[winkie]

Rural areas are a haven place to live for some and a hell place to live for others......a few in between that can savour the serenity and secure a job that can support the lifestyle that they have become accustomed to, and all the benefits it has to offer.....Many young would imo what more from life, they would prefer to be in the centre of all the goings on and excitement of the moment a large town or city would have to offer...so move out (often when they move to university) and take up something that has more to offer them socially, emotionally and financially.

So is it good for the young and good for the old?.......and only good for those in the middle who can afford to live and/ or buy there.

[evlw]

Who is it who sells these homes at inflated prices in the first place?

Locals who then complain that their children can't afford to buy at the high prices they have set.

 I can't afford to buy in the same part of a City where I was born because the prices have risen hugely over years.  should I have a 'right'  not to pay the market price like everyone else? 

[TenYearToGetMyMoneyBack]

On 1/8/2011 at 11:18 AM, rxe said:

Pensioners (generally) don't have large discretionary incomes, so their spending in the local economy is a lot lower than (say) a family

That certainly isn't what I see around here. The people I have known / know who drive Lexus venicles have all been pensioners. My colleague who retired last month has all but said he is going to spend spend spend. He already has the £18000 Motorbike.

I can see that the biggest benefit of being a pensioner is that you can't be made redundant so don't have to have a backup plan or savings in case of that.

Back to second homes this road has two out of ten. One has the Londoner owners in it at the moment and they have always planned to retire here.

The other is bizarrely an insurance policy. The owner was living with her partner and his family before she ever bought it. Because she isn't married she knows that if anything happened to him she would be homeless and left nothing hence the back-up house. Having been in a similar situation (Girlfriend of twelve years had a mid-life crisis and asked me to leave) I fully understand that. However, the problem could be equally solved by a savings account that actually tracked or bettered house prices.

[SickOfWaiting]

20 hours ago, evlw said:

Who is it who sells these homes at inflated prices in the first place?

Locals who then complain that their children can't afford to buy at the high prices they have set.

 I can't afford to buy in the same part of a City where I was born because the prices have risen hugely over years.  should I have a 'right'  not to pay the market price like everyone else? 

When the market involves the wealthiest Russian, Arab, Chinese, Indians, Americans ... well people from all over the planet looking to hide their ill gotten gains, then you can hardly claim it to be a free market which is what you're inferring.

Try going to all those nations i name, with the exception of America and buy a house that sits on its own land.

British people have created a civilised society where property rights are respected, and these fkers have come along make sure British people can't afford to buy, but we are taxed to the hilt to police their houses.