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The Masked Tulip

So, Where Are These Job Cuts Then?

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The meeja is reporting this morning that the much talked about QUANGO cuts have not happened... and it is a kind of fluff item on the news as they appear to be saying this is important but they are not giving the story enough prominence.

If you recall, the week before Christmas the meeja was full of stories of thousands of Public Sector workers getting their redundancy notices over the Christmas holidays. If that had happened you would imagine that by now there would be cries of protest up and down the country.

I have come to the conclusion that it is all FUD - talk publicly about massive Public Sector cut-backs, make the odd prominent sacrifice of an entire QUANGO but in reality not cut that much.

In other words, I don't believe we are going to see vast numbers of redundant workers hoping to sell their houses.

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My gf says that redundancies have already started at the hospital where she works, starting at the top.

I think throwing people off the roof is a tad drastic Harry, but I imagine that the odd HPCer might welcome it.

Where is this Harry?

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My gf says that redundancies have already started at the hospital where she works, starting at the top.

...are they voluntary? can work out to be expensive. ;)

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Email from a friend who works in Local Govt this morning. Enitire legal team being made redundant. Legal services going to bought in from private firms.

That will save a lot of cash then :rolleyes:

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Email from a friend who works in Local Govt this morning. Enitire legal team being made redundant. Legal services going to bought in from private firms.

That will save a lot of cash then :rolleyes:

What is stopping them from being made redundant then being redeployed with the new private firm? ;)

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Where would one get independent statistics for this rather than the drip-feed of info from the media? Like a mom and yoy house price index but for Public sector workers.

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I think throwing people off the roof is a tad drastic Harry, but I imagine that the odd HPCer might welcome it.

Where is this Harry?

East Kent Hospital Trust, QEQM in Margate.

Also noticed in the local rag a few weeks ago that my local council, which had been advertising some job or other at £95,000 per annum plus bonuses, have decided this job doesn't need doing after all and have withdrawn the post.

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My ex colleagues at UK Border Agency have told me about lots of people volunteering gleefully for the gold plated voluntary redundancy package that was on offer, especially those aged 40 up - I think it was something along the lines of 2 years salary (tax free I believe?) plus the final salary pension kicking in at aged 50 (lump sum and annuity) instead of 60.

Those amongst them whose job descriptions were "frothy" and non frontline were especially keen to go, since the new forced redundancy package is so much lower.

So successful has the uptake been that it would seem doubtful that any forced redundancies will be required - hence nasty strikes and protests are avoided.

An example of how real savings are years away in the public service - since so much money has to be spend to get rid. By the time the loss of 1 job is turning a salary saving "profit", the organisations will be so short staffed (due to natural wastage too) that new recruitment will start!

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Email from a friend who works in Local Govt this morning. Enitire legal team being made redundant. Legal services going to bought in from private firms.

That will save a lot of cash then :rolleyes:

But one could argue that Private Sector employees are more efficient and work harder than their public sector counterparts. Therefore it could potentially be cheaper. But then again some private firms are very good at ripping of clueless council management. An example would be when my dad used to work within out Local Education Authority. The power supply on his bog standard PC packed up. A private engineer came out and replaced it with a second hand one for £100. Unbelieveable when the part is worth about £15 and it would take 10 mins to put it in.

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My ex colleagues at UK Border Agency have told me about lots of people volunteering gleefully for the gold plated voluntary redundancy package that was on offer, especially those aged 40 up - I think it was something along the lines of 2 years salary (tax free I believe?) plus the final salary pension kicking in at aged 50 (lump sum and annuity) instead of 60.

Those amongst them whose job descriptions were "frothy" and non frontline were especially keen to go, since the new forced redundancy package is so much lower.

So successful has the uptake been that it would seem doubtful that any forced redundancies will be required - hence nasty strikes and protests are avoided.

An example of how real savings are years away in the public service - since so much money has to be spend to get rid. By the time the loss of 1 job is turning a salary saving "profit", the organisations will be so short staffed (due to natural wastage too) that new recruitment will start!

They're effectively taking a wages bill, spiking it in the short term, saving a bit of money in the medium term and still landing themselves with a similar future pensions bill. Suppose it saves a little money in the medium term, but it's still like emptying a bath with an egg cup as far as the deficit and debt is concerned.

Edited by General Congreve

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What are you expecting?

Boarded up council offices, schools with burning oil drums outside them?

Every single one of my public sector clients are losing staff but they still have to deliver the services.

As an example one council I am working at are losing about 10% of their staff but it is phased over a year. They are losing about 50% through redundancy and 50% through natural wastage. It won't shock you to hear of the £400k put aside for redundancy settlements over £250k is going to the Chief Executive and £100k to a senior manager. The rank and file are getting naff all in most cases.

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It won't shock you to hear of the £400k put aside for redundancy settlements over £250k is going to the Chief Executive and £100k to a senior manager. The rank and file are getting naff all in most cases.

Surely that's good? I mean, the Chief Exec is only going to have 2 houses at most, whereas the rank and file will have many houses between them. So the less money the rank and file get, the quicker they'll be forced to sell up and cause an HPC. So good on those at the top for taking the lions share of redundancy money, they're doing us all a favour in their own selfish way.

Edited by General Congreve

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my aunt and her partner both lost their jobs in the public sector recently.

they are happening.

Apparently there have been quite a few redundancy notices flying around Oldham, where they are holding the by-election.

According to the Office of National Statistics, the constituency has 12,000 public sector workers, representing 1 in 4 of the constituency’s workforce. This is a huge part of the electorate currently feeling bruised by the government and fearful of their job prospects.

In the last week alone the GMB union reports that 800 redundancy notices were dished out by Oldham Council at the start of the New Year – just days before the big vote.

Not so promising for the coalition. :)

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What are you expecting?

Boarded up council offices, schools with burning oil drums outside them?

Every single one of my public sector clients are losing staff but they still have to deliver the services.

As an example one council I am working at are losing about 10% of their staff but it is phased over a year. They are losing about 50% through redundancy and 50% through natural wastage. It won't shock you to hear of the £400k put aside for redundancy settlements over £250k is going to the Chief Executive and £100k to a senior manager. The rank and file are getting naff all in most cases.

+1

Absolutely right, all my friends in public service are expecting/planning 25% cuts but that will be over time and there will be an attempt to keep the services provided... we are not talking about closing departments and boarding up offices (yet), Sometimes I think people on here are expecting us to go from a bloated public service to Mad Max in months. There is an in-between!

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Surely that's good? I mean, the Chief Exec is only going to have 2 houses at most, whereas the rank and file will have many houses between them. So the less money the rank and file get, the quicker they'll be forced to sell up and cause an HPC. So good on those at the top for taking the lions share of redundancy money, they're doing us all a favour in their own selfish way.

There is a hole in your assessment: the Chief Exec will buy up the cheap houses and rent them back to the rank and file. Affordable housing (for me and you) will not occur if wealth continues to be re-distributed to the already wealthy; they will hoover everything up.

There is nothing good about this.

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But one could argue that Private Sector employees are more efficient and work harder than their public sector counterparts. Therefore it could potentially be cheaper. But then again some private firms are very good at ripping of clueless council management. An example would be when my dad used to work within out Local Education Authority. The power supply on his bog standard PC packed up. A private engineer came out and replaced it with a second hand one for £100. Unbelieveable when the part is worth about £15 and it would take 10 mins to put it in.

Sorry it doesn't work like that - think in terms of a small business - c. £35-50k salary/dividends, insurances, accountant fees, van + running costs, carrying a certain amount of stock blah-de-blah.

Apportion a small share of these costs to fitting a new PSU, add £15 and kerpowie - £100, or £80 or whatever. Certainly not £20 or something.

Running a small business should produce enough income to support a family and it won't by charging unit cost + 10minutes of your time.

Re OP I think its cruel and stupid the way the govt. have mainly just flagged up future cuts and kicked the job loss can down the road.

Creates false hope and means that we will see massive job cuts and public sector contract cuts (ie private sector jobs) over a short space of time.

For a while morale in this country is going to be dreadful and quite a few people may well completely freak out.

What's really scary is that a lot of people have trimmed their anuual outgoings by a thousand or so and think they will weather the storm.

Wrong.

I know people with 6-fig household incomes who have cut their outgoings by 25-50% in the last 2 years and are still looking for further savings.

Joe soap is in for one hell of a shock.

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The meeja is reporting this morning that the much talked about QUANGO cuts have not happened... and it is a kind of fluff item on the news as they appear to be saying this is important but they are not giving the story enough prominence.

If you recall, the week before Christmas the meeja was full of stories of thousands of Public Sector workers getting their redundancy notices over the Christmas holidays. If that had happened you would imagine that by now there would be cries of protest up and down the country.

I have come to the conclusion that it is all FUD - talk publicly about massive Public Sector cut-backs, make the odd prominent sacrifice of an entire QUANGO but in reality not cut that much.

In other words, I don't believe we are going to see vast numbers of redundant workers hoping to sell their houses.

Isn't it good news that people arn't losing their jobs?

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In other words, I don't believe we are going to see vast numbers of redundant workers hoping to sell their houses.

Voluntary redundancy period is happening in various HE institutions, including mine. If not enough people bite, then we'll get compulsories 2nd half of the year.

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But one could argue that Private Sector employees are more efficient and work harder than their public sector counterparts. Therefore it could potentially be cheaper. But then again some private firms are very good at ripping of clueless council management. An example would be when my dad used to work within out Local Education Authority. The power supply on his bog standard PC packed up. A private engineer came out and replaced it with a second hand one for £100. Unbelieveable when the part is worth about £15 and it would take 10 mins to put it in.

There's an inherent efficiency in outsourcing. When you employ staff, you employ them through busy times when they slog their guts out, and slack times when they twiddle their thumbs and plot against you. When you outsource, you pay for the people when they're needed, not all the time. The provider of those people supplies a number of clients and so is better-placed to smooth over the peaks and troughs in an individual client's workload.

That of course is an idealised picture. It works well in some cases (e.g. bring in specialist expertise as and when it's needed). But even in simple always-on functions like customer-facing staff you still outsource emergency cover, and from there it's a sliding scale through covering planned absence (like holidays or maternity) to the whole caboodle.

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Sorry it doesn't work like that - think in terms of a small business - c. £35-50k salary/dividends, insurances, accountant fees, van + running costs, carrying a certain amount of stock blah-de-blah.

Apportion a small share of these costs to fitting a new PSU, add £15 and kerpowie - £100, or £80 or whatever. Certainly not £20 or something.

Running a small business should produce enough income to support a family and it won't by charging unit cost + 10minutes of your time.

He could have been a sole trader. Either way £100 to replace a farking PSU? come on.

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My ex colleagues at UK Border Agency have told me about lots of people volunteering gleefully for the gold plated voluntary redundancy package that was on offer, especially those aged 40 up - I think it was something along the lines of 2 years salary (tax free I believe?) plus the final salary pension kicking in at aged 50 (lump sum and annuity) instead of 60.

Those amongst them whose job descriptions were "frothy" and non frontline were especially keen to go, since the new forced redundancy package is so much lower.

So successful has the uptake been that it would seem doubtful that any forced redundancies will be required - hence nasty strikes and protests are avoided.

An example of how real savings are years away in the public service - since so much money has to be spend to get rid. By the time the loss of 1 job is turning a salary saving "profit", the organisations will be so short staffed (due to natural wastage too) that new recruitment will start!

CB,

another great post from you.

I dont think that those at the top realise that what they should be trying to do is cut the cost of the public sector, which is different to cutting the numbers employed.

Giving someone two years salary, and a pension at about 50 may well cut the numbers working, but it doesnt sound like it is going to save the taxpayer much if anything. And in addition we are getting less people working on our behalf protecting the porous border.

The important thing overall is that we get as many bangs for the buck as we can. We appear to be saving a cent, but losing an entire bang on this one, and from what I hear, this is going to be common up and down the entire country.

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  • 284 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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