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The jigs up for Portugal.

chart?h=152&w=240&range=1y&type=gp_line&cfg=BQuote.xml&ticks=GSPT10YR%3AIND

I just dont see how a shrinking economy is going to come back from 7% interest rates. No Harry Houdini story to see here.

Makes me wonder about all those bonds that the ECB bought by issuing bonds of its own. Someone is going to take a bit of a bath on that, though the banksters will have taken their cut for arranging it all.

The politics of this seem to be changing. I get the feeling that those who are not in favour of bailouts are getting the upper hand. We might see a reversion to the Lehman's policy of letting it go, and letting both borrowers and lenders feel the pain.

I guess what would happen is the countries would be allowed to default, they would then have to balance their budgets immediately. Banks in other countries will fail, and the governments will take them over after giving the bond holders and depositors a hair cut. The loss is ultimately going to be taken by those owning the bonds and shares of the banks, and that will be pension funds and rich individuals.

What we really need now is legislation to allow governments to reduce salaries, both in the public sector, and of the banks that they are about to take over. None of this human rights tosh, the maths of the situation requires greater respect. Maths trumps human rights on this occasion.

I was reading one thread that stated that benefits are going to go up in the UK by 3% plus. Given that we have the pressure of global wage arbitrage causing private sector wages to stagnate at best, and therefore fall in real terms, none of this government largesse can be afforded anymore. Not here in the UK, not in Europe either.

The ones who are going to take the brunt of this are the pensioners. Again, the maths may be cruel, but you have to give the resources to those working and producing if you want your economy to succeed. Things look very bad for a lot of people, and most dont realise the danger they are in.

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Can anyone help me by telling me the simple steps to add a picture?

right click your photo of choice

select copy image location( I Use Firefox)

Click reply to thread, in the tool bar 2 from the right of the smiley face, in between the safety clip and the envelope is a picture, click on this. Paste in your url

click preview post

job done

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only been on a few years..I msut be stupid.thanks for that.

I think he was referring to me.

As for asking dumb questions, dont fear doing it. Sometimes it is the only way to find out. And if you dont know you just dont know, knowledge and intelligence are different things.

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Portugal looking doomed to a bailout, not that it will help much in the long term. Default is inevitable without robust GDP growth and inflation. Recession looks more likely at the moment.

Greece, Ireland, Portugal & Spain need a plan to restore rapid growth fast or all will be bailed out and eventually default. Virtually impossible without a large devaluation which is rather difficult in a currency union.

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The ones who are going to take the brunt of this are the pensioners. Again, the maths may be cruel, but you have to give the resources to those working and producing if you want your economy to succeed. Things look very bad for a lot of people, and most dont realise the danger they are in.

Pushing resources towards those working and producing isn't the answer, unless you can separate the "useful" jobs from the non-jobs. The is a strong temptation for governments to engage in all sort of useless projects to create yet more "non-jobs", where nothing is produced but a circular shuffle of taxpayers money, but it hides a lot of economic woes, for a time.

Edited by corevalue

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Pushing resources towards those working and producing isn't the answer, unless you can separate the "useful" jobs from the non-jobs. The is a strong temptation for governments to engage in all sort of useless projects to create yet more "non-jobs", where nothing is produced but a circular shuffle of taxpayers money, but it hides a lot of economic woes, for a time.

You are assuming that governments will dictate where the money is spent.

Simply reduce the taxes on those working, and let the market decide where to allocate the resources.

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Portugal looking doomed to a bailout, not that it will help much in the long term. Default is inevitable without robust GDP growth and inflation. Recession looks more likely at the moment.

Greece, Ireland, Portugal & Spain need a plan to restore rapid growth fast or all will be bailed out and eventually default. Virtually impossible without a large devaluation which is rather difficult in a currency union.

Hmm...... I remember c 2004-2006/7 saying to people that the utterly insane property "values" in Spain & Ireland were COMPLETELY & UTTERLY UNSUSTAINABLE, and would, in the end, lead to tears. HA! I was laughed at and told how wrong I was........ Well; I KNEW I was right. And this whole thing ain't even vaguely over yet...... How sad it is that I was right -- but how people completely DENIED how mad and unsustainable the whole big bubble was.... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

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Im really loking forward t italy collapsing and exiting the Euro...it's a great place to go on holiday but it's just too expensive these days to even think about it.

Every global monetary collapse has a silver lining :lol::lol::lol::lol:

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Interesting image from the NY Times via Mish's blog.

Shows very clearly how awful the situation is for the Euro.

web%2Bof%2Bdebt.png

Just done a quick tot up of the debts to France 911bn, Germany 704bn and Britain 418bn

We are a winner!!!

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Just done a quick tot up of the debts to France 911bn, Germany 704bn and Britain 418bn

We are a winner!!!

That is some clusterf*ck!

The way these things work though, I'm sure that Britain, France and Germany also owe those 5 countries several bn so you'd need to know the net exposure before declaring victory.

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Portuguese rallied a bit during the day, only to end on a nightmare.

Apparently they need to auction some debt next week, and no one is going to buy.

A bailout to be organised over the weekend? Or will they do a Lehman's, and just let it fail?

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Probably a stupid question but is there any reason why the EU can't contra some of these debts?

Solitaire,

a bit of a typo with your question I think. Repost your question and if I can, I will try and answer it for you.

Edited by leicestersq

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Portuguese rallied a bit during the day, only to end on a nightmare.

Apparently they need to auction some debt next week, and no one is going to buy.

A bailout to be organised over the weekend? Or will they do a Lehman's, and just let it fail?

This looks a bit like a precursor to a bailout.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE7070S620110108

They cant go into Monday without some sort of rescue can they?

And we hear that the Chinese might be throwing their money after good, and they are going to buy some European bonds as well.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/europe/110107/eurozone-debt-crisis-china-bonds

I guess if the Chinese go ahead and buy, it will be a bailout of sorts.

I am still expecting something a bit bigger and a bit more formal than we have here. And this time, unlike with the Irish, there are going to be some haircuts. That of course will make the banks like RBS have to take writedowns, so expect some more UK debt to be added to the pile.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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