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The Most Ridiculous Thing On Newsnight Ever?

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First they produced a graph that shows those with the lowest incomes are proportionately impacted more by the VAT rise than those on higher incomes.

Then they say however that some on low incomes have a lot of savings, so instead let's look at how the VAT affects people in proportion to how much they spend rather than how much they earn. Eh? That's a complete tautology. And sure enough they produce a graph that rises a regular intervals. A tax on spending will by definition go up in relation to how much a person spends. Duh!

Do they really think that constitutes a coherent rejoinder to the fact that the VAT rise impacts people more the lower their income?

That man should be sacked. (David Grossman I think it was)

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Lies, damned lies and statistics.

However I don't think the leftists have anything to crow about. My other half, who is on more or less the NMW, got a £125 christmas bonus. The Westminster mafia took £50 of it.

Just one little anecdote. Anybody who thinks big government is for the working poor needs their head read. I use the term "mafia" literally. It's practically your civic duty to pay as little tax to these grasping thieves as possible IMHO.

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Stuck watching BBC News 24 and listening to news today.

They are making it out to be along the lines of 2.5% of the population will be killed (targeting hard working families first of course).

I don't like it - the BBC makes me sick!

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VAT is a regressive tax and does hurt those paid the lowest in real terms, mostley on account of them having to spend all their wages every month. The mega rich often spend their money VAT free on account of offshore accounts/companies etc which then buy out of ECC/UK hence no VAT. This is why the government does it, reward the bankers and other mega rich parasites and punish the cretins that work for a low wage. Of course there are still many that would argue that bankers, CBI indusry types and Multi millionair Football stars contribute far more to the economy and well being of the population than the unwashed majority but they can f*ck off as far as I am concerned.

PS, Im not a socialist or comunist but do have a massive social concsience., Rewarding speculative greed as opposed to enterprise is evil, both morally and economically.

PPs Someone I once went sailing with had an expensive yacht, he owned a film set hire company and bought the boat ostensibly to offer as a set piece, it was used only once or twice but was, in all reallity his toy. All expensives were written against his company, marinas, maintenance, insurance and depriciation etc. Also he didnt pay VAT on it. To note, he was opportunistic rather than enterprising, his sister was in charge of all film set hire for the biggest TV production business in the UK at the time. cant beat nepotism.

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Should have known better than to post my erudite critique on this board of right wing nutters. :blink:

It's a vocal minority, don't let it get you down.

This newsnight piece just reflects how low journalistic standards have fallen. This was in the 'scraping the bottom' category: misinformation at its crassiest. Or in other words, nothing unexpected from today's MSM.

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Should have known better than to post my erudite critique on this board of right wing nutters. :blink:

And probably drunk as well. Try posting earlier in the morning, the right wing nutters maybe more coherent.

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zero vat on most food, children's clothes, rent.

Vat on playstations, chinese tat, meals out.

Depends where you spend it....

Quite.. covered here quite extensively.

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VAT is a regressive tax and does hurt those paid the lowest in real terms, mostley on account of them having to spend all their wages every month. The mega rich often spend their money VAT free on account of offshore accounts/companies etc which then buy out of ECC/UK hence no VAT. This is why the government does it, reward the bankers and other mega rich parasites and punish the cretins that work for a low wage. Of course there are still many that would argue that bankers, CBI indusry types and Multi millionair Football stars contribute far more to the economy and well being of the population than the unwashed majority but they can f*ck off as far as I am concerned.

PS, Im not a socialist or comunist but do have a massive social concsience., Rewarding speculative greed as opposed to enterprise is evil, both morally and economically.

PPs Someone I once went sailing with had an expensive yacht, he owned a film set hire company and bought the boat ostensibly to offer as a set piece, it was used only once or twice but was, in all reallity his toy. All expensives were written against his company, marinas, maintenance, insurance and depriciation etc. Also he didnt pay VAT on it. To note, he was opportunistic rather than enterprising, his sister was in charge of all film set hire for the biggest TV production business in the UK at the time. cant beat nepotism.

Can't quite make head nor tail of this.

Let me see, I'II have to consult my Leftist-liberal Euphemism to English dictionary.

Dum......de.....dum..........Oh....here we go

'Social conscience: Self-declared charitable and public spirited sounding conceit to mask envy or jealousy.'

Now it all makes sense.

Edited by Soon Not a Chain Retailer

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The only aspect of that report which might be considered "fair" or "well balanced" was when some third party nondesript was asked why "his members" supported a VAT rise rather than an NI rise. His answer was "choice" on how the money was spent by the individual.

Otherwise the economically illerate reporter sitting on the newsdesk with his graphs speaking as though he was some sort of expert was talking gibberish.

He didn't even understand the copper graph and the value of scales on it.

BBC you are pathetic.

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Can't quite make head nor tail of this.

Let me see, I'II have to consult my Leftist-liberal Euphemism to English dictionary.

Dum......de.....dum..........Oh....here we go

'Social conscience: Self-declared charitable and public spirited sounding conceit to mask envy or jealousy.'

Now it all makes sense.

[/quote

Actuialy old bean I dont spend any time being jealous of anyone, nor do I walk around with a concieted arrogance. Hard for people like you to understand. I do remember some of your previous posts and they are often somewhat 'anti' human in nature. Your answer to my post gives us an insight into your mind, which is of course that of a aboslute cynic with a cold selfish soul.

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First they produced a graph that shows those with the lowest incomes are proportionately impacted more by the VAT rise than those on higher incomes.

Then they say however that some on low incomes have a lot of savings, so instead let's look at how the VAT affects people in proportion to how much they spend rather than how much they earn. Eh? That's a complete tautology. And sure enough they produce a graph that rises a regular intervals. A tax on spending will by definition go up in relation to how much a person spends. Duh!

Do they really think that constitutes a coherent rejoinder to the fact that the VAT rise impacts people more the lower their income?

That man should be sacked. (David Grossman I think it was)

It is because in Britain we don't pay VAT on food and rent/mortgage.

See a chart here: http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=157026&view=findpost&p=2842368

_48152969_income_grp_vat_rises_466gr.gif

I'm very confused about this "VAT hike affects poorest families the most" argument.

From:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12099638

Taking rough figures from the chart:

£100 out of £9.8k is 1%

£200 out of £16.6k is 1.2%

£300 out of £23.1k is 1.3%

£520 out of £38.1k is 1.36%

£830 out of £49.5k is 1.68%

Seems VAT doesn't actually hit lower earners the hardest...

So we dig a little deeper. The chart above isn't what it says it is. It is actually from http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/junebudget_annexa.pdf page 67, titled "Chart A3: Additional tax due to indirect tax Budget changes in cash terms (£) by expenditure distribution (2012-13)".

Guess what... "Chart A4: Impact of indirect tax Budget changes as a per cent of net income

by expenditure distribution (2012-13)" shows that indirect tax is a smaller "hit" for low spending (aka income?) groups.

charta4.png

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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Can't quite make head nor tail of this.

Let me see, I'II have to consult my Leftist-liberal Euphemism to English dictionary.

Dum......de.....dum..........Oh....here we go

'Social conscience: Self-declared charitable and public spirited sounding conceit to mask envy or jealousy.'

Now it all makes sense.

That says more about you than Steve99.

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Agree, frankly the coverage of the VAT rise has been disgusting. Figures of £400-500 a year worse off for the average family. Total nonsense. Who spends £20k on top of Rent / Mortgage / Food / Public transport? The average man in the street?

You would need to be earning about £70k gross to come anywhere near this. Eating out 7 nights a week, a fleet of cars, clothes etc.

There needs to be a massive sacking of UK business journalists, especially at the Mail and the BBC. With even the most meagre analysis it is obvious the VAT rise will hit hardest those with the highest disposable incomes (after taking out food, Rent / Mortgages payments, newspapers & public transport).

Absolutely disgraceful reporting of this.

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Agree, frankly the coverage of the VAT rise has been disgusting. Figures of £400-500 a year worse off for the average family. Total nonsense. Who spends £20k on top of Rent / Mortgage / Food / Public transport? The average man in the street?

You would need to be earning about £70k gross to come anywhere near this. Eating out 7 nights a week, a fleet of cars, clothes etc.

There needs to be a massive sacking of UK business journalists, especially at the Mail and the BBC. With even the most meagre analysis it is obvious the VAT rise will hit hardest those with the highest disposable incomes (after taking out food, Rent / Mortgages payments, newspapers & public transport).

Absolutely disgraceful reporting of this.

I agree that the 'average' family will not have anything like this kind of increase and the journalism is shit.

However, people who spend a lot on VAT tat can most afford to reduce their consumption slightly. Having a couple less meals out a year isn't that much of a hardship. It's people who are so poor that they live week by week that will be hit the hardest. They might not buy much that attracts VAT, but making that stuff more expensive means when they do need a new pair of shoes or to replace their washing machine, they will have to do without some essentials to pay for the increase.

I think your definition of what is being hardest hit needs some re-evaluation.

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I don't think VAT is a regressive tax at all.

Don't be fooled by the sound of the word though. Regressive taxes are actually better than progressive taxes. With a regressive tax, the poor come a tiny bit closer to paying their fair share. You guys believe in fairness right?

Spare a thought at this time for the tireless workers in the services industry. Company owners pay 20% twice, once on what they earn and again when they spend. 20% twice leaves them scarcely enough left to pay their 50% income tax and 12% National Insurance.

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I don't think VAT is a regressive tax at all.

Don't be fooled by the sound of the word though. Regressive taxes are actually better than progressive taxes. With a regressive tax, the poor come a tiny bit closer to paying their fair share. You guys believe in fairness right?

Spare a thought at this time for the tireless workers in the services industry. Company owners pay 20% twice, once on what they earn and again when they spend. 20% twice leaves them scarcely enough left to pay their 50% income tax and 12% National Insurance.

I think what we would like, is for the rich to start paying their fair share, rather than claiming they are special or entitled. Especially the "special rich" that have grown rich off the back of the state and cronyism.

VAT hikes go some way to address that, though I dare say there will be industrial scale VAT evasion by the "elites" which doubtless the government of the day AND the BBC will turn a blind eye to.

I'm FED UP of having to get my news from Russia Today, Al JaZeera and Private Eye! laugh.gif

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Homeopathy does'nt cure malaria. Ha f**king ha

The MOST important story on Newsnight by a mile.... up there with the expose on Traffigura.

The Homeopath association are a nasty bunch of deluded hippies... they'd be hilarious if it weren't for the fact that they're flogging their snake oil to people on the basis that a few drops of tap water can prevent Malaria or Typhoid.

Nice to see Simon Singh given a platform.

As for VAT..... ALL the media love to stoke the doom & gloom... it's new year so there is f*ck all real news anway.

RT news.... it's like being inside Putin's head..... moral outrage when an RT film crew were arrested in the US.... not a peep about the slaughter of investigative journalists in the Russian Federation.... Anna Politskaya and at least 25 others. Hopelessly biased reporting that childish plays the line that Russia= Best.... everyone else= cr@p.

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  • 285 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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