Richard Branson To Build Oil Refinery

[Jason]

"Sir Richard Branson plans to hold talks with the government about paying for a new oil refinery.

The Virgin Atlantic boss told the BBC he wanted to reduce his airline fuel bill, which has increased by £300m a year over the last two years. "

So, it will take 4 years to build... That'll help then!

More:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4255156.stm

[theChuz]

"Sir Richard Branson plans to hold talks with the government about paying for a new oil refinery.

The Virgin Atlantic boss told the BBC he wanted to reduce his airline fuel bill, which has increased by £300m a year over the last two years. "

So, it will take 4 years to build... That'll help then!

More:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4255156.stm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which to me says that branson see's the price of oil heading in one direction only. If he or his myriad of advisory personale thought it was just a blip then he would sit it out.

[gone west]

"Sir Richard Branson plans to hold talks with the government about paying for a new oil refinery.

The Virgin Atlantic boss told the BBC he wanted to reduce his airline fuel bill, which has increased by £300m a year over the last two years. "

So, it will take 4 years to build... That'll help then!

More:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4255156.stm

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where does he propose to build it? Refineries are huge, smelly, poluting things. Perhaps somewhere around Whitehall, then?

[theChuz]

Where does he propose to build it? Refineries are huge, smelly, poluting things. Perhaps somewhere around Whitehall, then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Placement and capital are just minor points

[ThePiltdownMan]

Are the refineries the bottleneck?

I thought it was the wells?

[right_freds_dead]

i dont know whats wrong with branston, but virgin are the pinnacle of wild consumerism. he built his empire selling millions of black plastic discs.

'why not simply 'nip over' to new york in a huge fuel burning jumbo for a shopping trip?'

'why not get the 'latest' mobiley ringtoneys on your virgin plastic throwaway phones.'

goddammit - why not go blow some freon mincing about the globe in a large balloon ?

this guy lives like a jim i'll fixit winner.....

i hope your not expecting anything other than profiteering for our bearded friend.

[gone west]

Virgin Petrol?

[Guest horace]

I like the man, his style and his flare for making money. I would suggest that all reading this have benefitted from his endevours in some way.

horace

[oracle]

Virgin Petrol?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...you might be onto something here!!!...Branson is fairly canny with his business dealings and he's quite pally with blair,so I wouldn't be at all surprised to have a virgin filling station or two spring up as well.

....yes the problem is with the refineries,the world is running short of light crude now,so the stuff that's being sucked out is heavy(high sulphate) crude,which current refineries have trouble converting to modern fuels.modification or construction of purpose built refineries takes years.

...on top of that you have the middle east about to erupt!!!

LPG from norway is looking quite tempting!

[gone west]

I like the man, his style and his flare for making money. I would suggest that all reading this have benefitted from his endevours in some way.

horace

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and should therefore be paying royalties to the bearded tw*t

[right_freds_dead]

I like the man, his style and his flare for making money. I would suggest that all reading this have benefitted from his endevours in some way.

horace

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

dont get me wrong, hes a cool dude, but at his age he should be getting all hippy and environmental and not more lord king-like. after all - he smokes skunk through a water bong.

[Guest horace]

I will post my view again...

"I like the man, his style and his flare for making money. I would suggest that all reading this have benefitted from his endevours in some way."

If you disagree do so but state your reasons not your prejudice.

horace

[right_freds_dead]

I will post my view again...

"I like the man, his style and his flare for making money. I would suggest that all reading this have benefitted from his endevours in some way."

If you disagree do so but state your reasons not your prejudice.

horace

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

can you give me some of these 'benefit' examples to shoot down ?

[Guest horace]

>> right_freds_dead

How about employment in the U.K.? People gainfully employed, paying taxes and National Insurance contributions? Any idea how many right_freds_dead?

horace

[Time to raise petrol prices]

Four years!

Even if Branson could put up the money to build a refinery (and they are NOT cheap - £2bn a piece according to the BBC article, which even he would have trouble paying), he's already screwed by that point. If price inflation carries on unchecked, oil will be at $250 a barrel plus in four years, and Virgin (along with virtually every other carrier) will be bankrupt.

The days of shipbuilding and coal-fired liners crossing the Atlantic might one day return if this charade goes unchecked.

[right_freds_dead]

>> right_freds_dead

How about employment in the U.K.? People gainfully employed, paying taxes and National Insurance contributions? Any idea how many right_freds_dead?

horace 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thats not thanks to branston.

and to answer your question. 563

the rest are either draw benefits or in local government.

[Guest horace]

>> right_freds_dead

I am sorry. I did not make myself clear. Let me restate as follows...

How about employment in the U.K.(provided by Branson)? i.e People gainfully employed, paying taxes and National Insurance contributions? Any idea how many right_freds_dead?

[right_freds_dead]

>> right_freds_dead

I am sorry. I did not make myself clear. Let me restate as follows...

How about employment  in the U.K.(provided by Branson)? i.e People gainfully employed, paying taxes and National Insurance contributions? Any idea how many right_freds_dead? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thats crystal sir.

i reckon british rail employed more as they ran much more regular services and longer trains. also it was cheaper. they probably employed double the amount.

richard branston doesnt really create anything new. he takes over things and makes them run more efficiently and for a large profit.

[vinny]

I somewhat admire Branson, but either he's saying this for publicity (probable) or he is naive about refining economics. Firstly the refining capacity shortage is not local (as yet) to Britain. We have roughly enough capacity though de bottlenecking / increasing capacity of our existing refineries. Indeed we have been scaling down, in terms of refining sites, for a number of years. It is (mainly) the North American and emerging nations that have the physical problems of not being able to process enough crude, and that now effects us all, but only in terms of crude and it’s derivatives price.

Secondly, building just one refinery will not make any impact. What is required (if current demand and trends of growth in demand are sustained) is significantly more than just one or two refineries. And, as above, this must be relatively local to the area of increased demand or relatively local to a source of crude feed. With the North Sea production thought to be in decline, Europe isn’t the place for new refineries. Indeed, it is generally held that Western Europe is a fully matured if not saturated market for the oil industry.

Thirdly is the difficulty in building a refinery (the first post eludes to one difficulty – time).

1/ It would take years even if a suitable site were found to build a refinery. Then you have to start it up and iron out problems. Even with the most careful of plans and good design there will inevitably be delays / hitches needing more CAPEX.

2/ It would take more money than (I guess) Branson and his company(s) have to build even a small refinery. His £300 million hit per annum would take many years to recoup. Trust me-£300 million would probably buy you, from design to built, a very small distillation unit at most.

A Typical UK refinery (not that big) would be insured for £2000 to £3000 million. And that’s just it’s assets, or in other words bits of plant and tanks. Don’t forget these assets are amortised. Many of the plants are 30 years plus old. A “new build” would easily ,IMO, double that figure. He could borrow the money of course, but that would be a massive gamble. This is one of the reasons big oil companies are so profitable. It is unbelievably hard for anyone to come in and compete with them (it’s slightly easier on the exploration side of things). Do you think he would be wise to do this; he would be gambling on what would be the case in 4 years?

3/The Copyrights to even the most basic of refinery equipment is held by the oil majors. Would he be held to ransom?

4/ He will be completing for personnel and expertise, head to head with oil majors. He has never taken on companies of their size and power before. All of his operations are small scale relative to these giants. To give you an idea, I used to start up production units. And at the very bottom of the ladder, I could reasonably expect to take home 6K PCM. Can you imagine, this is what you would pay your lowest grade staff? Then multiply this figure by many hundreds. He would be competing for labour / expertise at a time that it would be in high demand.

I could go on but I’ll stop there. I’ve probably missed lots of points, but I hope the unlikelihood, in my opinion, of Mr B building a refinery in the UK is clear.

By the way, you may see new refineries in the US, but I think it more likely that existing ones will be upgraded and/or new, bigger, plants replacing old at existing sites.

Last point, has it become more clear to you peak oil chaps that refining capacity has a lot more to do with current prices? You may well be correct in much of what you say but don’t dismiss other factors so easily!!

Vinny.

[OnlyMe]

Uk Planning system - no chance, would take years

UK Structural costs - no chance, would probably cost double compared to elsewhere

Gordon slapped a tax on North Sea oil development, chance of support from existing players - probably close to nil.

[vinny]

Sorry, something just occured to me. Branson is a VI. Would threatening to come in and increase capacity take some heat out of the market? Naive again, but worth a pop if it costs you nothing perhaps?

[van hoogstraten]

He's just in it for a headline. Branson doesnt put money into things...they offer the Virgin name and somebody else puts up the money. Somehow "Virgin Oil Refineries"doesn't cut it.

[right_freds_dead]

im suprised we dont have Virgin Life Pods, stacked up to 6 high by 5 wide. placed wherever there is a need for city lifestyle living. each pod has a stainless steel fitted kitchen and brown vinyl japanese style beds which convert to sofas by revolving a burnt steel lever.

the oitsides could be virgin graphics on deep red with sketchy artists impression figures pointing and reading between lolipop trees. there are no visable cars or buses. or birds.

near it is a canal with no boats or fishermen. besides which is a starbucks and mc'cluskys bar. brawlers are rife. a man was repeatedly punched as he made his way across the concourse near the glass fountain which has anti skateboard blocks cemented into the parapet. he dropped his dominos pizza and ran to the unstaffed lobby.

then skellon arrived.....

[Saving For a Space Ship]

Richard Branson often seems to be called a 'celebrity tycoon' not just a tycoon these days.

The Lingirie off shoot of Virgin, 'Virgin Ware' has closed down here in Chester, so if that branch of Virgin are not doing well i assume its not baby oil Richard will

be refining.

[right_freds_dead]

Richard Branson often seems to be called  a 'celebrity tycoon' not just a tycoon these days.

The Lingirie off shoot of Virgin, 'Virgin Ware' has closed down here in Chester, so if that branch of Virgin are not doing well i assume its not baby oil Richard will

be refining.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it was because they were short of virgins from the chester area.