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eric pebble

The Ongoing Cover Up. Fraud In The Origination Of The Mortgages, Fraud In The Underwriting, Fraud In The Ratings Agencies.

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The answer should be, we should lock all fraudsters up, including those who lied on self cert mortgages.

We seem to think it's acceptable to lie and cheat, so long as we don't personally know the victims (benefit fraud, liar loans, pretty much most white collar crime). Our culture has shifted to thinking that it's not such a big deal, but a physical mugging of 'one person' is, in fact it's successful to walk all over someone else to get what you want. Perhaps if you met the pensioner who was living on less money because of your activities, or had to look at ruined lives so you could have your piece of gold. Then again, they probably wouldn't give a sh1t so long as they get their new car; holiday overseas and larger house.

They've recently privatised water in my area. Bills have obviously sky rocketed overnight. Massive bonuses to directors of new water companies all around, on the back of pushing pensioners even further into penury. (The bonuses are so large you can actually work them out in dollar amount on your annual bill.) The whole system is just broken. It's like LA when the rioters take over and people just loot anything they can get their hands on. The last 30 years have been a slow descent into government sanctioned corporate looting of the general public.

Edited by Tiger Woods?

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I have left job interviews in the past thinking that it was a mistake to relate a story that indicated I had scruples. Seriously. The one that sticks out in my mind was for a job as a entry level trader in a market maker...in hindsight I was rather naive.

Ha ha, I am going to be careful with that! How about chucking 'I'll say anything' onto the CV.

I think lying is destructive in that I have seen it become utterly pathological, like going over to the dark side. The lies they tell themselves are the worst. My last MD was so bad he had lost his grip on reality. He told me his parents were dead. I found out just recently that they are not. Just how messed up is that, seriously my sympathy isn't worth that. Problem is, he hurt everyone around him...

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My dad had a period when he was 100% honest in his accounts, (namely as he needed to money to come from the business to be completely legit). He looks back at that time and thinks how stupid he was to do this.

Perhaps we need a wide ranging campaign to make not paying your tax a patriotic duty - starve the Government beast.

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Fraud is so endemic in Britain that it has become the very large part of its economy.

It starts with people at the bottom who believe telling a few lies on an mortgage or loan application is acceptable. After all if their friends and neighbours do it then it must be OK. The total failure of the state to act against these frauds must make it acceptable, surely?

We then have the full complicity of the banks and financial institutions , who see these many minor crimes only as a lucrative money making scheme. The banks and their employees go on to make Billions of pounds of profits plus bonuses.

Finally at the top we have the Government, regulars and legal system who behave like the three wise monkeys. They conveniently fail to notice anything awry. This is because they also profit from it, politically and financially.

The result it a nation that at all levels is corrupt, and must remain corrupt. Exposing the lies and deceit would bring about the near total collapse in the economy, because it makes up such a large part of it. The Government is so deep in the deception that it will even resort to paying off the fraudsters with fresh tax payers money, and think nothing of it.

The Government feels obliged to partake in a classic money laundering operation, paying off criminals via the banks and welfare system with tax revenues, using clean money to wash away dirty money.

Being honest in a society of crooks is a lonely affair.

Great post.

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Fraud starts at the top.

It then permeats down through the whole system which is designed to 'nudge' (Cameron's mot du jour) those at the bottom to participate else lose out.

We had and still have institutional criminality throughout the banking and political system.

This is 100% clear when you enquire how many thousands of bankers have been jailed since the fraud collapsed in '07? How many have the FSA referred to the SFO? How many public enquiries has Dave initiated?

ZERO

Thus it remains clear that governments of all stripes, New labour, Tory and Libdem implicitly accept institutionalised fraud and criminality in the UK within our banking and related industries. It's become their MO. That's what they do. That's who they are. From top, to bottom. It's normal behaviour

'My word is my bond' became 'F*ck you where's my bonus!' to the point where even today RBS insist unless they pay their traders billions in bonuses the business will suffer. It's institutionalised criminality. Top down, supported by government.

Edited by Red Karma

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Fraud starts at the top..

...//...

ZERO

Thus it remains clear that governments of all stripes, New labour, Tory and Libdem implicitly accept institutionalised fraud and criminality in the UK within our banking and related industries. It's become their MO. That's what they do. That's who they are. From top, to bottom. It's normal behaviour

'My word is my bond' became 'F*ck you where's my bonus!' to the point where even today RBS insist unless they pay their traders billions in bonuses the business will suffer. It's institutionalised criminality. Top down, supported by government.

[/size]

'fraid so.... :rolleyes:

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Fraud is so endemic in Britain that it has become the very large part of its economy.

It starts with people at the bottom who believe telling a few lies on an mortgage or loan application is acceptable. After all if their friends and neighbours do it then it must be OK. The total failure of the state to act against these frauds must make it acceptable, surely?

We then have the full complicity of the banks and financial institutions , who see these many minor crimes only as a lucrative money making scheme. The banks and their employees go on to make Billions of pounds of profits plus bonuses.

Finally at the top we have the Government, regulars and legal system who behave like the three wise monkeys. They conveniently fail to notice anything awry. This is because they also profit from it, politically and financially.

The result it a nation that at all levels is corrupt, and must remain corrupt. Exposing the lies and deceit would bring about the near total collapse in the economy, because it makes up such a large part of it. The Government is so deep in the deception that it will even resort to paying off the fraudsters with fresh tax payers money, and think nothing of it.

The Government feels obliged to partake in a classic money laundering operation, paying off criminals via the banks and welfare system with tax revenues, using clean money to wash away dirty money.

Being honest in a society of crooks is a lonely affair.

To paraphrase Orwell, telling the truth in an age of deceit becomes a revolutionary act.

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Happy New Year Eric, Happy New Year everyone.

As someone who remembers the Money Programme Eric refers to being broadcast (and a few other similarly themed programmes at the time) I wholeheatedly agree.

Earlier this week I was reading through the review of Scott Paterson's book "The Quants: How a New Breed of Math Whizzes Conquered Wall Street and Nearly Destroyed It" on Amazon and got taken aback at a scathing review posted by someone going by the moniker 'hh'. Clearly whoever 'hh' is they are very close indeed to the work of Quants. Despite what you might think about Quants, it wasn't them who encouraged people to sign up to mortgages they couldn't afford.

The people were lured into thinking they had to pay 6-10x their wages just to get a roof over their heads and were lured into becoming 'speculators' on holiday homes, forcing up prices for poorer countries.

This was constantly rammed down peoples throats in the media by the housing Antichrists like Krusty & Beeny (who constantly talked up house prices by getting people to cheat each other by selling carved up 2 bedders as 3 bedders etc to add £60,000 on) etc etc and front line bank staff on bonus schemes just said sign here we'll finish off the fraud loan for you.

Many of us were lucky enough to see the link to youtube where hedgefund and investment bosses said "they know when there is a rising bubble and just play it for all it's worth, whilst keeping quiet about it."

This insinuates that top bankers can see this and also keep quiet until everything goes bust so they can carry on getting huge bonuses - telling the media "they never saw it coming"

Loads of them then walk off into obscurity leaving the devastation behind them (country and economy) and are totally unaccountable due to our fraudulant Govt/City shills, Lords passing biased laws (whilst secretly filling their pockets) and lawmakers who are in league with them. Evil b'stards

Edited by erranta

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The people were lured into thinking they had to pay 6-10x their wages just to get a roof over their heads and were lured into becoming 'speculators' on holiday homes, forcing up prices for poorer countries.

This was constantly rammed down peoples throats in the media by the housing Antichrists like Krusty & Beeny (who constantly talked up house prices by getting people to cheat each other by selling carved up 2 bedders as 3 bedders etc to add £60,000 on) etc etc and front line bank staff on bonus schemes just said sign here we'll finish off the fraud loan for you.

Many of us were lucky enough to see the link to youtube where hedgefund and investment bosses said "they know when there is a rising bubble and just play it for all it's worth, whilst keeping quiet about it."

This insinuates that top bankers can see this and also keep quiet until everything goes bust so they can carry on getting huge bonuses - telling the media "they never saw it coming"

Crikey! That made sense! :o

I hope you are well!

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Depends on who you are. What does that mean?

When it changed form you can be what you want to be, to who you want to be.

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Crikey! That made sense! :o

I hope you are well!

It makes perfect sense and you obviously have more in common with Paddington - maybe you ought to take a rest? :lol:

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Interesting thread.

The last twenty or so years have made the public desire to be one up on their fellow man, be it from a better car, house or what ever. Dishonesty and fraud are just the symptoms of that cancer. Now the situation has changed and the chickens have come home to roost people are being asked via the "big society" to become altruistic to keep the cogs of society turning. Our politicians childishly believe that the public can be changed overnight to suit the expedience of the moment. A tipping issue looks to be the bankers bonuses and it seems that the media are aware hence their discussions of what is to be done. If they go ahead and get their bonuses in march then it could be interesting to see how the public take it. Though I'd not support rioting it would be a sign that the selfish are beginning to turn on each other.

Hearing the comments regarding professional integrity it is a wonder that there isn't more evidence of this erosion of standards. I suspect that we are going to see a steady flow of this in the years to come as this short-sightedness is paid for. I have noticed that if you won't tow the line you are tarred with the title of being left wing. In a similar way that you are misunderstood when peak oil come up in conversation and most can't pigeon hole you so they just assume you oppose their view on climate change. The comment regarding the Orwellian paradox of being made to feel that being honest is some kind of revolutionary act is very apt.

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Interesting thread.

The last twenty or so years (...)

Remember the "old boys network"? Fraud is old. I think the problem just spread more since then. Millions of people borrowed hundreds of billions of pounds. You could even say that we had a process of fraud democratisation! :lol:

:(

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Remember the "old boys network"? Fraud is old. I think the problem just spread more since then. Millions of people borrowed hundreds of billions of pounds. You could even say that we had a process of fraud democratisation! :lol:

:(

Harsh but sadly fair.

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Interesting thread.

The last twenty or so years have made the public desire to be one up on their fellow man, be it from a better car, house or what ever. Dishonesty and fraud are just the symptoms of that cancer. Now the situation has changed and the chickens have come home to roost people are being asked via the "big society" to become altruistic to keep the cogs of society turning.

Just say no! As said I would be quite happy to hunt such people with my bow when the collaspe comes tasty long pig :P

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Just say no! As said I would be quite happy to hunt such people with my bow when the collaspe comes tasty long pig :P

Bow - O.N. bogi

You better stop Pick n Flicking then - New yr resolution? :rolleyes:

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The people were lured into thinking they had to pay 6-10x their wages just to get a roof over their heads and were lured into becoming 'speculators' on holiday homes, forcing up prices for poorer countries.

This was constantly rammed down peoples throats in the media by the housing Antichrists like Krusty & Beeny (who constantly talked up house prices by getting people to cheat each other by selling carved up 2 bedders as 3 bedders etc to add £60,000 on) etc etc and front line bank staff on bonus schemes just said sign here we'll finish off the fraud loan for you.

Many of us were lucky enough to see the link to youtube where hedgefund and investment bosses said "they know when there is a rising bubble and just play it for all it's worth, whilst keeping quiet about it."

:blink::unsure: Sadly - missed by most.... :rolleyes:

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Question is who decides what the underlying risk distribution should be at any given moment in time? Who?

Well,here's an idea : How about the central banks or similar international organisations? We are already up to our eye balls in consumer and producer confidence index-surveys, so why can't they incorporate them (and other related measures) as proxies for integrity/deception/fraud for banks to take into account when they price risk?

Won't work. Boom times distort perceptions. Remember Gordon Brown at the height of the boom and spending like Caligula? He was telling us he would balance the budget over the complete economic cycle. By implication, he thought we were below the average of the cycle, right at the top.

OK, Brown (like Caligula) was mad. Perhaps always mad, though I suspect he once had potential, and was driven insane by his exposure to Pure Evil in The Liar. But the key point is that they had a bandwagon. When the occasional politician (Vince Cable), banker (???) or journalist (???) warned of the bubble, they were easy to marginalise and ignore. Like Cassandra, they went unheeded: noone wanted to listen.

That is the nature of the bubble.

Which brings me back to my regular hobby-horse. We did have a clear and measured indicator of the bubble! M4 money supply - underlying inflation - was soaring ever higher. If the BoE had been mandated to keep M4 rising at 2% a year we really would have had stability: as credit rises, interest rates follow, thus damping it out long before it becomes a bubble (and the reverse in a recession).

Instead we tied UK monetary policy to Chinese industrial expansion, and the rest is history.

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Perhaps we need a wide ranging campaign to make not paying your tax a patriotic duty - starve the Government beast.

Welcome to the campaign!

Having made some efforts last year to keep my tax liability down,

...

On a philosophical note, I regard it as my strong duty to humanity and to my country to ensure my money goes to better places than HM treasury.

Last year I aimed to offset 100% of my income tax (or within a few squid thereof) with tax-saving schemes. It can be done!

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When my dad used to say to me, 'if everyone stuck their head up a chimney, would you' I used to say, 'I would be a fool not to', but perhaps, unfortunately I got his point and kept my own honest path, which until recently has been successful and rewarding, in fact I have won jobs and good business deals because of it. But I now get the feeling that even my professional reputation for honesty is not only utterly devalued, it is distinctly not wanted!

Keep the faith......I know it is hard, but the dishonest and fraudulent liars may get away with it once or even twice, but it will eventually come back to haunt them...I have also got where I am today by trying to be open, honest and transparent with the truth as I can...the rewards may take longer and the road is a bit longer, but over time trust in others and others having trust in you will repay for itself many times. ;)

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Won't work. Boom times distort perceptions. Remember Gordon Brown at the height of the boom and spending like Caligula? He was telling us he would balance the budget over the complete economic cycle. By implication, he thought we were below the average of the cycle, right at the top.

OK, Brown (like Caligula) was mad. Perhaps always mad, though I suspect he once had potential, and was driven insane by his exposure to Pure Evil in The Liar. But the key point is that they had a bandwagon. When the occasional politician (Vince Cable), banker (???) or journalist (???) warned of the bubble, they were easy to marginalise and ignore. Like Cassandra, they went unheeded: noone wanted to listen.

That is the nature of the bubble.

Which brings me back to my regular hobby-horse. We did have a clear and measured indicator of the bubble! M4 money supply - underlying inflation - was soaring ever higher. If the BoE had been mandated to keep M4 rising at 2% a year we really would have had stability: as credit rises, interest rates follow, thus damping it out long before it becomes a bubble (and the reverse in a recession).

Instead we tied UK monetary policy to Chinese industrial expansion, and the rest is history.

not sure of the difference between "boom and bust", and an "Economic Cycle"....the first of which was eliminated by some guy I cant remember his name.

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Keep the faith......I know it is hard, but the dishonest and fraudulent liars may get away with it once or even twice, but it will eventually come back to haunt them...I have also got where I am today by trying to be open, honest and transparent with the truth as I can...the rewards may take longer and the road is a bit longer, but over time trust in others and others having trust in you will repay for itself many times. ;)

Wish I could believe that this is the way....... Sadly, I feel that 'dishonesty' reigns supreme nowadays....... More than ever....

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Wish I could believe that this is the way....... Sadly, I feel that 'dishonesty' reigns supreme nowadays....... More than ever....

As the tide receeds, the boulders and stinking seaweed left on the beach is visible to all.

I too agree with you. I 'm afraid we are in a period where the world is so full of trickery, dishonesty, deception that honest folk with morals are the mugs.

Everybody it seems is out to cheat, lie, rob, deceive whether it be the vendor of a home, the local authority, your car garage, your neighbour, the police.

Keep the faith Eric. The tide will turn and the rotting, smelly seaweed will be washed away. Just a question of when.

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  • 317 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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