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My daughter has rented a flat on her own for 6 months. Now her boyfriend wishes to move in with her. The landlord has no objections, but the letting agency want £90 to do a reference check on him. As the responsibility for rent is with my daughter, i see no reason for a reference check for him, other than £90 for the agency. Can she refuse to pay this needless charge?

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My daughter has rented a flat on her own for 6 months. Now her boyfriend wishes to move in with her. The landlord has no objections, but the letting agency want £90 to do a reference check on him. As the responsibility for rent is with my daughter, i see no reason for a reference check for him, other than £90 for the agency. Can she refuse to pay this needless charge?

what kind of reference check?

is it a 'don't smash up the flat' reference check? or a financial reference?

since the agency may reasonably be expected to vet the tennants for the landlord, then without a signed waiver from the landlord my guess is they are entitled to this

sounds steep tho'...

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My daughter has rented a flat on her own for 6 months. Now her boyfriend wishes to move in with her. The landlord has no objections, but the letting agency want £90 to do a reference check on him. As the responsibility for rent is with my daughter, i see no reason for a reference check for him, other than £90 for the agency. Can she refuse to pay this needless charge?

Of course she can refuse. If the tenancy is still in her name only, then she is 100% responsible for paying the rent and the boyfriend's means are of no consequence.

The agency is trying it on and should be told to go to hell. Reference checks should only be about £35 anyway.

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Of course she can refuse. If the tenancy is still in her name only, then she is 100% responsible for paying the rent and the boyfriend's means are of no consequence.

it might not be related to the bf's means, it might be whether he will smash the place up or not - what if he is a heroin addict, say?

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My daughter has rented a flat on her own for 6 months. Now her boyfriend wishes to move in with her. The landlord has no objections, but the letting agency want £90 to do a reference check on him. As the responsibility for rent is with my daughter, i see no reason for a reference check for him, other than £90 for the agency. Can she refuse to pay this needless charge?

I asked the same question when the la hit me for a fee to check wifey.

They do it because for him to live there he has to be listed on the tenancy. If she walked out then he would be responsible for the rent. They do it to make sure that he is credit worthy to cough up the rent too.

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I asked the same question when the la hit me for a fee to check wifey.

They do it because for him to live there he has to be listed on the tenancy. If she walked out then he would be responsible for the rent. They do it to make sure that he is credit worthy to cough up the rent too.

Except that your first claim "for him to live there he has to be listed on the tenancy", is entirely incorrect

tim

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Except that your first claim "for him to live there he has to be listed on the tenancy", is entirely incorrect

tim

hair splitting but it depends on the la, the basic answer is there though.

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The tenancy is already in one persons name and it will state that nobody else is permitted to stay at the property long term which usually means more than a holiday (2 weeks).

This agreement was accepted when first signed.

To move somebody else in without changing the tenancy agreement is illegal and could or most likely would result in an eviction.

Reasons above are why the new tenant needs to be checked in order to put them on the tenancy agreement which would then make them equally responsible for the property and the rent.

It may seem unfair and/or expensive, but it needs to be done by law.

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The tenancy is already in one persons name and it will state that nobody else is permitted to stay at the property long term which usually means more than a holiday (2 weeks).

This agreement was accepted when first signed.

To move somebody else in without changing the tenancy agreement is illegal and could or most likely would result in an eviction.

Reasons above are why the new tenant needs to be checked in order to put them on the tenancy agreement which would then make them equally responsible for the property and the rent.

It may seem unfair and/or expensive, but it needs to be done by law.

Assuming the clause even exists (which the OP hasnt mentioned) it could easily be deemed an unfair contract term, The tenancy agreement states who is responsible for the property and the rent to be paid, The referencing fee is simply an estate agent way of getting money for doing nothing.

There is NO requirement in law to do this at all and moving somebody in is not illegal!!

Edit to add, in this situation the boyfriend is treated as a guest of the legal occupier and there is nothing the landlord can do about it unless the AST has ended and they issue an S21.

Edited by Rozza

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The tenancy is already in one persons name and it will state that nobody else is permitted to stay at the property long term which usually means more than a holiday (2 weeks).

This agreement was accepted when first signed.

To move somebody else in without changing the tenancy agreement is illegal and could or most likely would result in an eviction.

Reasons above are why the new tenant needs to be checked in order to put them on the tenancy agreement which would then make them equally responsible for the property and the rent.

It may seem unfair and/or expensive, but it needs to be done by law.

Really? Last year, I was the only person referenced (at my cost) by my agent and they knew I would be living with my wife and son. Why does adding her to the lease cost anything? Why the bunkum credit checks on someone who won't be paying the rent?

Its ****-covering, paper-shuffling, existance-justifying, exploitative, fee-producing, piss-taking.

Hence my current insurance question. Agent says you MUST get this insurance bespite it being an unfair term but I have to jump through their hoop to get somewhere to live. Piss-takers.

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The tenancy is already in one persons name and it will state that nobody else is permitted to stay at the property long term which usually means more than a holiday (2 weeks).

This agreement was accepted when first signed.

To move somebody else in without changing the tenancy agreement is illegal and could or most likely would result in an eviction.

Reasons above are why the new tenant needs to be checked in order to put them on the tenancy agreement which would then make them equally responsible for the property and the rent.

It may seem unfair and/or expensive, but it needs to be done by law.

Illegal?

call the police?

AST is a private contract regulated in law....doesnt make a breach Illegal...just a breach...and if the LL is happy, id tell the agent to shove it.

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Assuming the clause even exists (which the OP hasnt mentioned) it could easily be deemed an unfair contract term, The tenancy agreement states who is responsible for the property and the rent to be paid, The referencing fee is simply an estate agent way of getting money for doing nothing.

There is NO requirement in law to do this at all and moving somebody in is not illegal!!

Edit to add, in this situation the boyfriend is treated as a guest of the legal occupier and there is nothing the landlord can do about it unless the AST has ended and they issue an S21.

They can be treated as a guest, but the tenancy if it has been drafted correctly should state that the tenants named on the agreement is responsible and not to permit anybody to live at the address. For a period longer than 2 weeks is classed as living there on a permanent basis.

If this happens then the tenant is in breach of the contract and can be evicted whether or not the AST has ended.

A tenancy is a binding contract and if you sign it, then you agree to the terms.

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Illegal?

call the police?

AST is a private contract regulated in law....doesnt make a breach Illegal...just a breach...and if the LL is happy, id tell the agent to shove it.

Fair point about the landlord. If they allow it, then there should be no issues as long as something is in writing to show this otherwise insurance policies could become void and providing it is not a HMO. If the tenant and landlord are in touch with each other, then they can just put something in writing. If they agent is required to put something in writing, then they will charge.

One problem now is the new HMO licence rules. In some areas you are not allowed to have more than 2 un-related adults living in one property.

In this case if you and a partner are living together and want to move an adult friend in even if the landlord is happy, it cannot be done otherwise the agent and landlord face prosecution.

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Really? Last year, I was the only person referenced (at my cost) by my agent and they knew I would be living with my wife and son. Why does adding her to the lease cost anything? Why the bunkum credit checks on someone who won't be paying the rent?

Its ****-covering, paper-shuffling, existance-justifying, exploitative, fee-producing, piss-taking.

Hence my current insurance question. Agent says you MUST get this insurance bespite it being an unfair term but I have to jump through their hoop to get somewhere to live. Piss-takers.

If the agent was happy to just put you on the tenancy, then that is up to them, but your credit checking would need to prove that you can comfortably cover the rent on your own. Realistically the agent should have added to the tenancy that your wife and son if he was an adult were able to be permitted to reside at the property.

Adding somebody to the lease means that they become equally responsible for the tenancy and the rent, so they need to go through the credit referencing which will incur a charge.

With regards to your insurance question.

I would assume your agent is adding this clause in to pick up some extra cash from an insurance company by supplying you with a policy. Does it state that you have to take their insurance?

If not, then you are free to take your own insurance and supply the agent with proof of the policy. If you don't want the policy, then take it out to get in the property, then cancel it.

I take it the insurance is contents insurance!

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I just wanted to add.

I am not trying to defend other agents because I don't approve of how many of them work and have been a client of several myself.

I am only trying to provide some answers that some of you are looking for rather than watching you list your complaints and have replies from people that have been through the same, so that they can sympathise with you.

I'm trying to run a business and make a living. To do that correctly I want to make sure that I build a business with a good reputation and the last thing I want is to see my company plastered all over a message forum giving it bad press, so I use these forums to learn and to make sure I do not repeat other LA/EA's mistakes.

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Fair point about the landlord. If they allow it, then there should be no issues as long as something is in writing to show this otherwise insurance policies could become void and providing it is not a HMO. If the tenant and landlord are in touch with each other, then they can just put something in writing. If they agent is required to put something in writing, then they will charge.

One problem now is the new HMO licence rules. In some areas you are not allowed to have more than 2 un-related adults living in one property.

In this case if you and a partner are living together and want to move an adult friend in even if the landlord is happy, it cannot be done otherwise the agent and landlord face prosecution.

Interestign about the HMO laws you cite....can you supply Act and section please, as Id like to use this in my anti police state argument.

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If you have 3 unrelated people living in one property, then you require a HMO licence.

There are around 2000 houses in multiple occupation (HMOs) in Swansea, many of which are located in the two central wards of Castle and Uplands.

What is an HMO?

The Housing Act 2004 defines a HMO as a property that is:

•occupied by 3 or more people, forming 2 or more households, sharing amenities e.g. bathroom and kitchen facilities, or

•converted into self-contained flats, but does not meet the requirements of the 1991 Building Regulations and less than two thirds of the flats are owner occupied, or

•occupied by 3 or more people, forming 2 or more households in a converted building that is not entirely self-contained. e.g. a basement flat with shared accommodation with a maisonette at ground & first/second floor levels.

What is a single household?

Section 258 of the Housing Act 2004 specifies when persons are to be regarded as not forming a single household.

To count as a single household, persons must be members of the same family. This includes:

•married couples, or those living as husband and wife, including those in an equivalent same sex relationship; or

•where one of them is a relative of the other.

'Relative' includes parent, grandparent, child, grandchild, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, nephew, niece or cousin, and half relatives, step-children and foster children.

A single household also includes any domestic staff if they are living rent free in accommodation provided by their employer.

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If you have 3 unrelated people living in one property, then you require a HMO licence.

Link

Thanks for the info.

so a boyfriend moving in would be living as a married couple and therefore of no concern to landlord or EA.

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Adding somebody to the lease means that they become equally responsible for the tenancy and the rent, so they need to go through the credit referencing which will incur a charge.

I do not follow this.

Say A wants a tenancy. You do a credit check and establish he can pay the rent. You tell A that you are more than happy to grant him the tenancy. A then says he wants B to be tenant as well. Remember that if B is also tenant A and B will be jointly liable. If the rent is not paid you can sue A or B or both. If only A were the tenant (and remember you agreed he could be) you would only be able to sue A. Whatever B's creditworthiness your position is immediately improved by having another tenant. Why do you need to check the creditworthiness of B?

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Both A and B would be equally liable.

If B moved in without being checked and rent was not paid, then the landlord could take the LA to court for not carrying out satisfactory checks which is in the terms and conditions of every LA's contracts that we have to abide by the terms of NEAE, ARLA etc.

Basically we have to follow these guidelines to cover ourselves from prosecution.

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Thanks for the info.

so a boyfriend moving in would be living as a married couple and therefore of no concern to landlord or EA.

There are no issues with this happening, but the boyfriend needs to be added to the tenancy agreement unless the landlord agrees and it is in writing.

If the LA has a problem with that, then that is for the landlord to sort out. Either find a new agent or demand that the current LA agrees to the landlords wishes. After all it is the LA that is working for the landlord.

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Both A and B would be equally liable.

If B moved in without being checked and rent was not paid, then the landlord could take the LA to court for not carrying out satisfactory checks which is in the terms and conditions of every LA's contracts that we have to abide by the terms of NEAE, ARLA etc.

Basically we have to follow these guidelines to cover ourselves from prosecution.

It still makes no sense.

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Both A and B would be equally liable.

If B moved in without being checked and rent was not paid, then the landlord could take the LA to court for not carrying out satisfactory checks which is in the terms and conditions of every LA's contracts that we have to abide by the terms of NEAE, ARLA etc.

Basically we have to follow these guidelines to cover ourselves from prosecution.

Rubbish. The LA could very easily defend themselves in such a lawsuit by saying they had no idea what the tenant had done. There's no term in a LA-LL contract that says the LA must maintain 24-hour surveillance on the comings and goings at a rented property.

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Rubbish. The LA could very easily defend themselves in such a lawsuit by saying they had no idea what the tenant had done. There's no term in a LA-LL contract that says the LA must maintain 24-hour surveillance on the comings and goings at a rented property.

Of course the LA could deny all knowledge, but then the LA is not doing their job correctly and making false statements. I suppose once you start to bend terms and conditions, then where do you stop? I imagine you just become one of the agents that everybody dislikes and nobody trusts you.

I like to do things right and stay within the terms of service that I offer.

Like I have said the easy way to avoid any grief in this situation is for the tenants to write to the landlord requesting express permission for somebody to stay at the property. If the LL agrees to the request and signs it, then there are no problems and no costs to anybody. I can't see why there should be a fuss about this. People expect the LA to either turn a blind eye (not do their job with due diligence) or ask them to draft a new tenancy for no cost when the tenant could spend 5 minutes writing a letter and the price of a postage stamp to get this done.

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There are no issues with this happening, but the boyfriend needs to be added to the tenancy agreement unless the landlord agrees and it is in writing.

If the LA has a problem with that, then that is for the landlord to sort out. Either find a new agent or demand that the current LA agrees to the landlords wishes. After all it is the LA that is working for the landlord.

youve given one spurious reason for adding the second adult...HMO...now that idea is proved not to be so, you just insist that he needs to be added regardless...

You are beginning to sound like an EA who makes up the law as they go along.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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