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Property Crash & Strs

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From someone on the Piggy Website, their take on STR & a possible houseprice crash:

"It is sickening and disgusting that the STRs should greet any reporting of bad economic news as though it is something to cheer about. The STRs get all excited and are delighted when they hear news that unemployment is rising or that inflation is rising or that more businesses are going bankrupt because it means that home-owners will suffer and the STRs hope to profit from other people's misery.

The callous and sickening disregard of the STRs towards other people is totally disgusting and is just what you would expect of the STR speculator garbage. The STRs are totally unscrupulous and mercenary and take great pleasure and delight at other people's misfortune.

The STRs are hoping that the economy takes a nosedive and enters a steep recession in order that it causes house prices to fall just so that the STRs can profit from the economic decline and make money by buying a property on the cheap from a distressed home-owner who is unable to keep up their mortgage payments because they lost their job.

The STRs are quite happy to see a total economic meltdown and collapse just in order that they can buy a property on the cheap so that they can then sell the property at a significantly higher price in the next property boom.

The STRs cannot wait for a property crash to occur and are getting increasingly anxious and concerned that the property crash is not about to happen soon because any delay in a property crash further reduces the value of the money that the STRs made in selling their house because their money is continually being eroded away by inflation.

The STRs hope to buy a property on the cheap when the crash happens but what they fail to appreciate is that house prices are unlikely to boom again until another economic boom develops which won't happen for ten years and this means that the STRs will effectively be wasting their money buying an asset that won't appreciate in value for ten years which is clearly insane and not a sensible investment decision.

The STRs hope to buy a property for a low price so that they can then sell the property for a high price but there is no point in buying a property for a low price if property prices will remain low for many years because the STRs will just be tying up alot of their money on an asset that is not rising in value and the STRs will lose alot of money in buying a property that is not rising in value and is not likely to rise in value for many years.

The STRs biggest mistake will be to buy a property soon after a crash has occurred because they will be paying alot of money for an asset that will not be rising in value for many years and will not be keeping up with inflation, which means that the STRs will effectively be losing money because the value of any property they buy during a crash will not keep up with inflation.

The STRs will be the long-term losers in the long run. A property crash will cause more problems than it solves and contrary to the expectations of the STRs a property crash will only make the problems of the STRs worse because they will be tempted to buy an asset that won't be appreciating in value and keeping up with inflation and as a consequence they will lose a lot of money in buying a property during a crash."

Sorry it's a bit longwinded but what do the STR crowd on here think?

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*sigh* OK, here I go.

I did not initially sell to make money but to change job and location.

Once sold, it does not make sense to buy now when I can buy with reductions in two years time.

BUT equally important are the other factors in favour of renting - flexibility, freedom, no DIY.

My life has changed for the better since I sold 'to rent' and I have ALREADY made savings.

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I think the poster has summed it up very well.

The STR has taken a hard-nosed view of the market and has had the conviction, and courage, to leave the comfort of owner occupation to seek better returns in other markets, but always with a view to return to the property market when some sort of sanity has returned to prices.

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A bit contradictory.

And... I've never owed a home!

Do these same people worry about my generation not being able to afford a home? I doubt it. The author reminds me of the many gloating/Greedy home owners.

Edited by Jason

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Got bored half way through the rant.....................'the str blah blah blah.....some ***** blah'

how about 'the greedy vendor...................blah blah blah'

or 'the greedy EA.... blah blah blah'

or ' the greedy btl..................blah blah blah'

or the 'i invested in this property.....................blah blah blah'

Effectively, the "i think i'm worth lots even though i've done eff all for it but don't want so see my so called 'equity' disappear" brigade.

Personally, I hope they all go bankrupt.

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Sounds to me like a greedy pig BTL'er venting their anger while their investment is going down the crapper.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to buy a house a lower price. These greedy pigs should be happy someone will eventually come and bail out their sorry arses.

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Sounds to me like a greedy pig BTL'er venting their anger while their investment is going down the crapper.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to buy a house a lower price.  These greedy pigs should be happy someone will eventually come and bail out their sorry arses.

Well said.

There is nothing clever about having to pay 20% (i.e. tens of thousands of pounds) more for something than you would have done a year before. If it were anything else (milk, water, food etc) , people would be up in arms.

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To be fair I think the poster is making some valid points, amongst the obvious invective. If there is a major HPC the ripples from the economy will hit us all as the HPC will be economy driven.

We often post on here re. job losses, neg. sentiment on company statements, unemployment, crap retail sales figures. Yes we can see it all falling apart, as a potential home owner this will benefit you how? If a small percentage that post on here sold in the summer of 2004, to then rent, well done. However, it is a fraction.

The downturn in the economy, so messed up under new Labour, will be painful, you may have relatives, who did not mew, yet find their homes repossessed due to job losses. Feeling smug `cos you sold to rent in 2004 may insulate you, but not if you have to then spend your profits subsidising your job seekers allowance.

Be careful what you wish for....

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Let's put an end to this nonsense once and for all.

STRs, like myself, can wish for the moon to turn blue, it doesn't matter. What most of us did was look at the market and make a rational decision based on what we saw at the time. We are the short sellers of the housing market and provided liquidity at the top. The housing market WILL crash and the UK (and many other) economy WILL (probably) go into recession. Do I wish for house prices to fall? Yes, it would be an advantage to myself and all the FTBs. Do I want a recession and people to suffer? Don't be a prat.

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Let's put an end to this nonsense once and for all.

STRs, like myself, can wish for the moon to turn blue, it doesn't matter. What most of us did was look at the market and make a rational decision based on what we saw at the time. We are the short sellers of the housing market and provided liquidity at the top. The housing market WILL crash and the UK (and many other) economy WILL (probably) go into recession. Do I wish for house prices to fall? Yes, it would be an advantage to myself and all the FTBs. Do I want a recession and people to suffer? Don't be a prat.

I was merely agreeing with some of the rational point in the singing pig poster`s points. Night follows day surely? Are we imagining a scenario where house prices crash, but the good ship economy keeps all FTB`s in a job? I don`t quite get your logic.

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Guest

He doesn't dismiss the house price crash possibility. His comments are also irrelevant.

There must be a million markets that I'm not invested in. But are they deriding me on Internet forums for holding Sterling as opposed to being invested and riding their market bumps?

:rolleyes:

Nobody is required to be invested or to remain invested in UK residential property.

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Guest muttley
From someone on the Piggy Website, their take on STR & a possible houseprice crash:

The STRs cannot wait for a property crash to occur and are getting increasingly anxious and concerned that the property crash is not about to happen soon because any delay in a property crash further reduces the value of the money that the STRs made in selling their house because their money is continually being eroded away by inflation.

A common misconception.

Inflation erodes property equity too.

At least STR money makes interest.

This is assuming a static market.In a falling market STR is a great strategy.

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Let's put an end to this nonsense once and for all.

STRs, like myself, can wish for the moon to turn blue, it doesn't matter. What most of us did was look at the market and make a rational decision based on what we saw at the time. We are the short sellers of the housing market and provided liquidity at the top. The housing market WILL crash and the UK (and many other) economy WILL (probably) go into recession. Do I wish for house prices to fall? Yes, it would be an advantage to myself and all the FTBs. Do I want a recession and people to suffer? Don't be a prat.

I was merely agreeing with some of the rational point in the singing pig poster`s points. Night follows day surely? Are we imagining a scenario where house prices crash, but the good ship economy keeps all FTB`s in a job? I don`t quite get your logic.

Sorry, comments were not aimed at you. Point being, STRs see house prices falling, regardless of what we "wish for". It is simply what we EXPECT to happen. If it were clear to me that a recession will follow, and that possibility is becoming greater everyday, I will position for that as well. My hope is for everyone to prosper, but that will never be reality.

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Sounds to me like a greedy pig BTL'er venting their anger while their investment is going down the crapper.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to buy a house a lower price.  These greedy pigs should be happy someone will eventually come and bail out their sorry arses.

but you missed the point...

"greedy" BTL's are horrible because they've "priced others out the market" and singlehandedly forced wannabe FTB's into perennial rental and financial obscurity.

but "greedy" waiting FTBs or STR's are horrible for wishing for financial and economial havoc to be wreaked upon the popn generally.

1) BTL's comprise a minority of the market, therefore HPI cannot solely be blamed on them... in fact only the percentage of properties they have bought in the overall market represents the degree of proportion of blame... added to this, many are BTL due to pension depletion by GB .... do you really think it's fair to blame HPI solely on a load of BTL's many of whom are trying to garner a pension provision for fear of a cat-food retirement?

2) is either of the 2 "greedy" options worse? Personally, I think that actively wishing for repos and economic havoc at the expense of others and for your own benefit is less moral than trying to better oneself by spreading your investment portfolio for retirement. After all, if people didn't invest in property, they'd be investing in other markets, nearly all of which also have -ve side effects.

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He doesn't dismiss the house price crash possibility. His comments are also irrelevant.

There must be a million markets that I'm not invested in. But are they deriding me on Internet forums for holding Sterling as opposed to being invested and riding their market bumps?

:rolleyes:

Nobody is required to be invested or to remain invested in UK residential property.

OMG, don't tell me you are holding Sterling! :blink::blink:

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Guest muttley

As non-elected spokesperson for the STRs, I would like to point out that being proved right is far more important than making any money.

Furthermore,many of us have become unwittingly STR,and would have quite happily bought back into the market if it wasn't for that cheapskate b@stard who allowed us to be gazumped for a poxy few grand and I hope he has a stroke in his luxury villa on the Algarve............AAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!

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Just briefly ... have you checked about the copyright of the post you have cut and pasted here?  You may be breaching it as it was obtaned off an author from another site .... just a thought ...

With regards to STRs being as bad as the post suggests .. I don;t hink they are any worse than other asset speculators.

With regards to STRs buying back after a crash (if it happens) ... I think the problem for them is not the erosion of asset price as the poster suggests, but the problem is that a crash may accompany a deep recession, with the certainty  that the STRs themselves would in some cases lose their main source of income (their jobs ..) and end up having to eat into the capital that they so cleverly made by selling their homes at the peak of the cycle.  What does that do? it defeats the object of having sold their home in the first place. If they get a recession as some of them are so eagerly willing, they may end up being left with nothing.

That is true, up to a point. Just as in a crash, house prices do not fall to zero, in a recession, not everybody (and remarkably fewer people than most believe) lose their jobs. No one should wish for a recession, but we can take heart that our foresight and decision to sell was correct.

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but you missed the point...

"greedy" BTL's are horrible because they've "priced others out the market" and singlehandedly forced wannabe FTB's into perennial rental and financial obscurity.

but "greedy" waiting FTBs or STR's are horrible for wishing for financial and economial havoc to be wreaked upon the popn generally.

1) BTL's comprise a minority of the market, therefore HPI cannot solely be blamed on them... in fact only the percentage of properties they have bought in the overall market represents the degree of proportion of blame... added to this, many are BTL due to pension depletion by GB .... do you really think it's fair to blame HPI solely on a load of BTL's many of whom are trying to garner a pension provision for fear of a cat-food retirement?

2) is either of the 2 "greedy" options worse? Personally, I think that actively wishing for repos and economic havoc at the expense of others and for your own benefit is less moral than trying to better oneself by spreading your investment portfolio for retirement. After all, if people didn't invest in property, they'd be investing in other markets, nearly all of which also have -ve side effects.

I have not missed the point at all. STR's (which I am not) deserve a lot of credit for what they are doing. They are part of the CORRECTION that is well overdue to get our ecomony back on track for our kids. Our society has to learn that houses are places to bring up a family in NOT investment vehicles so we can milk them well into our retirements.

The BTL crowd should not be SPECULATING with property. If they get burnt, it is there own fault and no one should pity them.

What most folks fail to realize the economy needs a correction to be healthy and strong for the future. Anyone supporting higher property prices (ie more debt) at this present time is foolish.

I for one am looking for a correction - no matter how painful it is.

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Guest The dude
but you missed the point...

"greedy" BTL's are horrible because they've "priced others out the market" and singlehandedly forced wannabe FTB's into perennial rental and financial obscurity.

but "greedy" waiting FTBs or STR's are horrible for wishing for financial and economial havoc to be wreaked upon the popn generally.

1) BTL's comprise a minority of the market, therefore HPI cannot solely be blamed on them... in fact only the percentage of properties they have bought in the overall market represents the degree of proportion of blame... added to this, many are BTL due to pension depletion by GB .... do you really think it's fair to blame HPI solely on a load of BTL's many of whom are trying to garner a pension provision for fear of a cat-food retirement?

2) is either of the 2 "greedy" options worse? Personally, I think that actively wishing for repos and economic havoc at the expense of others and for your own benefit is less moral than trying to better oneself by spreading your investment portfolio for retirement. After all, if people didn't invest in property, they'd be investing in other markets, nearly all of which also have -ve side effects.

"but "greedy" waiting FTBs or STR's are horrible for wishing for financial and economial havoc to be wreaked upon the popn generally."

I'm a would be ftb....please don't confuse my predicament with an STR.....and please please please do not illustrate what a complete fukwit you are by saying that I am greedy. You're an embarrasment.

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I have not missed the point at all.  STR's (which I am not) deserve a lot of credit for what they are doing.  They are part of the CORRECTION that is well overdue to get our ecomony back on track for our kids.  Our society has to learn that houses are places to bring up a family in NOT investment vehicles so we can milk them well into our retirements. 

The BTL crowd should not be SPECULATING with property. If they get burnt, it is there own fault and no one should pity them.

What most folks fail to realize the economy needs a correction to be healthy and strong for the future. Anyone supporting higher property prices (ie more debt) at this present time is foolish.

I for one am looking for a correction - no matter how painful it is.

So BTLers shouldn't speculate with property but it's all right for STRs to do it? Would you like to point out the difference? They're the opposing sides of the same coin.

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So BTLers shouldn't speculate with property but it's all right for STRs to do it?  Would you like to point out the difference?  They're the opposing sides of the same coin.

Okay let me explain:

BTL have borrowed money, which they didn't have, to take a chance (speculate), to make more money.

STR have not borrowed any money, they are actually saving money while waiting for property prices to correct. Ironically they are actually helping the BTL crowd. How are STR's speculating with money like the BTL'ers are?

If they had shorted property values they would be on the opposite side of the coin, but they can't and they haven't.

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I have not missed the point at all.  STR's (which I am not) deserve a lot of credit for what they are doing.  They are part of the CORRECTION that is well overdue to get our ecomony back on track for our kids.  Our society has to learn that houses are places to bring up a family in NOT investment vehicles so we can milk them well into our retirements. 

The BTL crowd should not be SPECULATING with property. If they get burnt, it is there own fault and no one should pity them.

What most folks fail to realize the economy needs a correction to be healthy and strong for the future. Anyone supporting higher property prices (ie more debt) at this present time is foolish.

I for one am looking for a correction - no matter how painful it is.

then you clearly have missed the point.

to speculate, in order to enhance your own life through fear due to economic circumstances, and with a small effect on the FTB by the BTL (clear through the proportions of BTL compared to buy-to-owns), the FTB impact of which is also unobvious to BTLs ... is that morally worse than wishing financial havoc on the unsuspecting and largely undeserving people that any HPC / economic slide / huge increase in unemployment would cause?

I think not.

The latter, by your own admission is what you want.

Allow the market to do what it will, but don't actively wish for others financial ruin...

Edited by xian

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Okay let me explain:

BTL have borrowed money, which they didn't have,  to take a chance (speculate), to make more money.

STR have not borrowed any money, they are actually saving money while waiting for property prices to correct.  Ironically they are actually helping the BTL crowd. How are STR's speculating with money like the BTL'ers are?

If they had shorted property values they would be on the opposite side of the coin, but they can't and they haven't.

Right, so STRs didn't have mortgages, then?

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  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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