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Cut The Shock Doctrine. Radicalize Common Sense.


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HOLA441

Given that my problem with the association of 'left wing' and 'libertarian' is not unique, perhaps you could describe a few practical characteristics of such a society ?

A point of note: a right-libertarian society is at least actually possible and not just theory, I've heard it argued that pre-WWI USA is one example.

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I would probably describe myself as a left libertarian. It seems libertarianism actually started on the 'left'. -

From Wikipedia -

"The first person to describe himself as a libertarian was Joseph Déjacque, an early French anarchist communist. The word stems from the French word libertaire, and was used to evade the French ban on anarchist publications."

"However, the association of socialism with libertarianism predates that of capitalism, and many anti-authoritarians still decry what they see as a mistaken association of capitalism with libertarianism in the United States. As Noam Chomsky put it, a consistent libertarian "must oppose private ownership of the means of production and the wage slavery, which is a component of this system, as incompatible with the principle that labor must be freely undertaken and under the control of the producer.""

Noam Chomsky is probably the highest profile left libertarian.

I would agree with you that it is a absolute shame that socialism so readily associates itself with, and is associated with, the state. My take on it is that libertarianism is a better fit with the left.

I've had the debate on this thread -

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=156238&st=30

which explains my reasoning, if you're interested.

Edited by shipbuilder
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HOLA442

It's kind of funny that a lot of the current critique of the way higher education has gone comes from the neo liberals- their main issue being that the courses on offer are often absurdly divorced from real world needs.

So we get things like 'media studies' courses being attacked for being largely irrelevant to the needs of real employers and the real economy.

Now that may well be true, but what is ironic is that the courses on offer are driven by the demands of the 'consumer'- in this case the would be students that the establishment seeks to attract.

So to lobby for a consumer driven education model, then complain when the content of the courses on offer reflects the aspirational fantasies of teenagers seems totally inconsistent- surely those who support a market driven solution to all things cannot be complaining that the consumers wishes are being met?

What did they expect to happen when they pushed the idea that teenagers should be given the power to define the curriculum? (In their role as 'consumers' of education)

I think its another example of big business externalising costs and effort. A real supply and demand education system would have businesses actively engaged with what universities are offering and also offering apprenticeships and the like themselves.

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HOLA443

Given that my problem with the association of 'left wing' and 'libertarian' is not unique, perhaps you could describe a few practical characteristics of such a society ?

A point of note: a right-libertarian society is at least actually possible and not just theory, I've heard it argued that pre-WWI USA is one example.

.

In my view the only difference between and right and left libertarian society would be that in a left libertarian society, people would be compensated for not having free access to land in the form of a citizen's income. In the world we live in, this would probably be the closest possible to reflecting the principle of 'common ownership of land'.

I hope my posts on the other threads show how this logically leads to natural formation of co-operatives and natural collective decision making, rather than these things being some sort of forced utopian dream that the right tend to see.

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