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gruffydd

Cut The Shock Doctrine. Radicalize Common Sense.

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Interesting, but is it not just a very erudite 'Special Case' plea?

The Police are asking for exemption from the cuts, NHS, Prisons, Civil Service etc. etc.

In fact just about any occupation that relies on the public purse is now putting forward 'Special Case' pleas.

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Sounds like a Tears For Fears song.

Everybody wants to save their jobs?

Cut pay across the board and jeep the jobs. Put everyone on minimum wage and they can balance the books

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This reads to me like something written by a 20 year old fighting the battles of the early 20th century, and therefore not particularly useful or interesting (to me at least.) He's still framing his political analysis as right versus left, which misses a lot of what has happened in the past few decades. The dangerous aspect of the political shift, in my opinion, has been from libertarian to authoritarian, together with an erosion of national sovereignty from a number of directions (though there has been a shift to the right too.)

This ties in with the Wikileaks saga. Wikileaks is, in my view, a long overdue reaction by the libertarian left to the the slow drift of states to the authoritarian right over the last 40 years. The libertarian left has become such a rare beast in public these days, as the public political left has long been authoritarian, so much so that most Americans cannot even conceive of a libertarian left. I mean, you have to start going back to Ghandi and Mandela to find significant left-wing libertarians.

Edited by Tiger Woods?

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Now that they are talking about this kind of weather being the norm for UK Winters I expect, by the Summer, we will have new Council posts such as 'How to walk on the snow Co-ordinators'.

Cycling technician post has just been created in my LA, presumably to teach kids how to ride a bike. Not bad pay either at around £17k per annum (top of scale) MT your probably not a million miles away.

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Cycling technician post has just been created in my LA, presumably to teach kids how to ride a bike. Not bad pay either at around £17k per annum (top of scale) MT your probably not a million miles away.

ours gives out free cycling maps and they're very nice.

Dread to think how much it costs.

Allotments are going to be self-managed. With huge sets of restrictions and inspections by council (to preserve their jobs related to allotments imo)

So only savings is the insurance the allotments will need - at which point some sites might find themselves uneconomical ...

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The dangerous aspect of the political shift, in my opinion, has been from libertarian to authoritarian, together with an erosion of national sovereignty from a number of directions (though there has been a shift to the right too.)

I'd agree with you about a shift towards authoritarianism (e.g. the whole NuLab project) but I see little evidence of a significant rightwards movement. Cameron speaks the right-wing message on localism and handing back powers to individuals, but what have we actually seen? I'm not sure the coalition has the backbone to fight the vested interests on this, but we shall see.

This ties in with the Wikileaks saga. Wikileaks is, in my view, a long overdue reaction by the libertarian left to the the slow drift of states to the authoritarian right over the last 40 years. The libertarian left has become such a rare beast in public these days, as the public political left has long been authoritarian, so much so that most Americans cannot even conceive of a libertarian left. I mean, you have to start going back to Ghandi and Mandela to find significant left-wing libertarians.

I also cannot conceive of a libertarian left. Forced equality of outcomes (the left's reason for existing) requires a powerful interfering state.

Wikileaks seems to me a classical example of right wing libertarianism (see Ron Paul's defence of them).

.

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Allotments are going to be self-managed. With huge sets of restrictions and inspections by council (to preserve their jobs related to allotments imo)

So only savings is the insurance the allotments will need - at which point some sites might find themselves uneconomical ...

The cost of an allotment in my mother's LA has just gone up 400%. Presumably they think they see a golden goose.

.

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This reads to me like something written by a 20 year old fighting the battles of the early 20th century, and therefore not particularly useful or interesting (to me at least.) He's still framing his political analysis as right versus left, which misses a lot of what has happened in the past few decades. The dangerous aspect of the political shift, in my opinion, has been from libertarian to authoritarian, together with an erosion of national sovereignty from a number of directions (though there has been a shift to the right too.)

This ties in with the Wikileaks saga. Wikileaks is, in my view, a long overdue reaction by the libertarian left to the the slow drift of states to the authoritarian right over the last 40 years. The libertarian left has become such a rare beast in public these days, as the public political left has long been authoritarian, so much so that most Americans cannot even conceive of a libertarian left. I mean, you have to start going back to Ghandi and Mandela to find significant left-wing libertarians.

Can the left be Libertarian?

I doubt it.

A caring sharing left wing society sounds great but it is against all human nature.

We all have an inbuilt survival instinct.Just read of mass panics, always the strong push aside, trample over the small and weak.

Of course we deprecate this, but it is pure Darwinism, the strong must prevail over the weak.

That is why we, a small relatively unarmed creature (in its natural state) are still here and not wiped out by something bigger up the food chain.

We manage to live in mutual support because that also has been to our advantage.

A tiger can easily kill a man. Ten men can easily kill a tiger.

I suspect that it is something as simple as this in our make up that causes the great political upheavals that we have seen.

To work, a left wing society has to be highly disciplined such as North Korea.

Anything less, and the purist left winger complains of compromise.

Anecdotally, Honeker, ex president of East Germany was genuinely shocked when the workers tore down the Berlin wall. He could not conceive that they wanted freedom from left wing policies. As I say, this is only anecdotal.

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I also cannot conceive of a libertarian left. Forced equality of outcomes (the left's reason for existing) requires a powerful interfering state.

Wikileaks seems to me a classical example of right wing libertarianism (see Ron Paul's defence of them).

Certainly, mainstream politics has become quite authoritarian so anyone with an anti-authoritarian bent, whether right or left, will see Paul and other right wing libertarians as speaking about ideas which they hold dearly and which aren't represented in the mainstream and hence perhaps mistakenly categorise themselves as being part of the libertarian right.

The idea of a libertarian left is almost non-existent in the mainstream media. Over the last century "left wing" has become identified with authoritarian left wing politics. However, there is a long tradition of a libertarian left. See www.politicalcompass.org for some search terms. In its extreme form you have some form of : libertarian socialism. Noam Chomsky is an example of a modern libertarian socialist.

Our beloved Injin also seems to espouse a philosophy that might be categorised as a form of libertarian socialism.

A lot of the early communists (and the British left in the early and middle part of last century) probably would be classified as having libertarian left ideals. The problem is that authoritarians have a habit of gaining control...and I think an understanding of what was really going on in the Soviet Union woke up a lot of the left wing sympathisers in the West. So, I agree with the previous poster that a large libertarian left wing society is a pipe dream as human nature is a problem - we are, ultimately due to natural selection, hierarchical and controlling. I view it as a philosophy to balance right wing authoritarianism, to remind us that there are other possible ways of doing things, and to remind us of our ideals...and also perhaps as a view that should push us towards smaller community sized organisation where the libertarian left ideas have a better chance of functioning.

Edited by Tiger Woods?

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I found this interesting...

http://academia.edu....ck_Doctrine.pdf

Listening to those un-common, rarified, people is about as far from "common sense" as one can get and as far from 'common' people's lives as one can get!

They hang out together in their insular, bunker mentality 'common' rooms, eGGing each other on with their 'Peer' reviewing, conjuring up new Uni - verses which percentage wise are just as likely to completely fekk up the Country / 'Common' typical working persons life!

And I haven't touched the booze - yet! :P

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I view it as a philosophy to balance right wing authoritarianism, to remind us that there are other possible ways of doing things, and to remind us of our ideals...and also perhaps as a view that should push us towards smaller community sized organisation where the libertarian left ideas have a better chance of functioning.

Given that my problem with the association of 'left wing' and 'libertarian' is not unique, perhaps you could describe a few practical characteristics of such a society ?

A point of note: a right-libertarian society is at least actually possible and not just theory, I've heard it argued that pre-WWI USA is one example.

.

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Now that they are talking about this kind of weather being the norm for UK Winters I expect, by the Summer, we will have new Council posts such as 'How to walk on the snow Co-ordinators'.

I concur,

I wonder how many of these sheep oh sorry people telling us that the current weather (hot/cold/wet/dry) are willing to pin their reputations careers on their predictions ? They change like the seasons and act like braying animals when the wind blows; "the skys falling in chicken licken". Remember this is what a £33 million computer + staff gets us this year : "A mild but very wet winter is forecast this Year". BTW Piers Corbyn predicted this weather with the use of a desk top and data from solar activity ! :lol: There's a potential saving for us all, i.e the public purse ! get rid of the MUG/MET office ! :) I think they only exsist to reinforce the next great wealth extraction mechanism AGW ! Giving the crap at the top the fruits of our toils !

http://www.weatheraction.com/docs/WANews10No38.pdf

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read it and i really dont understand what point he is trying to prove, other than the nature of debating and ideas. Misguided rubbish such as Adam smith said this and that so therefore right wingers cant do this or that.

Whats his point?

Keynes said a lot of things left wingers ignore.

If he believes politicians are bound exactly to stuff old dead guys say, he is naive beyond belief. I think Bliar talked more about Adam Smith than Camerclegg

As with every other no cuts speil, no mention what so ever of facts and figures. Just the usual sloppy cuts are bad, current system is perfect, change scares us.

Edited by Sadman

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I suppose ehat happened in Barcelona before Franco, Hitler and their corporate pals destroyed it, could be seen as left-libertarian. I suppose Orwell was a left-libertarian as well.

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Now that they are talking about this kind of weather being the norm for UK Winters I expect, by the Summer, we will have new Council posts such as 'How to walk on the snow Co-ordinators'.

Yeah, I don't think we'll have to wait until Summer :lol:

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I realise local councils have different sources of funding. Council Tax, Central Government grants, etc, and they will prioritise front line services, but certain rules, such as

Local Councils having to spend the full amount of their budget, in any given year, otherwise they will get a lower budget the following year is one of the reasons why we see sudden flurries of so many un-needed, unwanted council projects.

That's not common sense is it?

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read it and i really dont understand what point he is trying to prove, other than the nature of debating and ideas. Misguided rubbish such as Adam smith said this and that so therefore right wingers cant do this or that.

Whats his point?

Keynes said a lot of things left wingers ignore.

If he believes politicians are bound exactly to stuff old dead guys say, he is naive beyond belief. I think Bliar talked more about Adam Smith than Camerclegg

As with every other no cuts speil, no mention what so ever of facts and figures. Just the usual sloppy cuts are bad, current system is perfect, change scares us.

He is an academic and as such cannot say anything in a straight forward way.

Everything has to buried in obscurantism and made to sound far more important, complicated, intellectual than it really is.

The knowledge bods know that when it comes to cuts, unlike front line services where the effect is immediately seen, in their case, most people will never miss them at all.

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I suppose ehat happened in Barcelona before Franco, Hitler and their corporate pals destroyed it, could be seen as left-libertarian. I suppose Orwell was a left-libertarian as well.

My favourite Orwell quote :-

"The Home Guard could only exist in a country where men feel themselves free. The totalitarian states can do great things, but there is one thing they cannot do: they cannot give the factory-worker a rifle and tell him to take it home and keep it in his bedroom. That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."

I cannot imagine a self declared socialist saying something similar today, and that is a pity.

.

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It's kind of funny that a lot of the current critique of the way higher education has gone comes from the neo liberals- their main issue being that the courses on offer are often absurdly divorced from real world needs.

So we get things like 'media studies' courses being attacked for being largely irrelevant to the needs of real employers and the real economy.

Now that may well be true, but what is ironic is that the courses on offer are driven by the demands of the 'consumer'- in this case the would be students that the establishment seeks to attract.

So to lobby for a consumer driven education model, then complain when the content of the courses on offer reflects the aspirational fantasies of teenagers seems totally inconsistent- surely those who support a market driven solution to all things cannot be complaining that the consumers wishes are being met?

What did they expect to happen when they pushed the idea that teenagers should be given the power to define the curriculum? (In their role as 'consumers' of education)

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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