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November Borrowing Wipes Out All Of 2010/11 Reductions In One Swoop

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8217823/UK-borrowing-hits-new-record-as-Government-spending-jumps.html

Economics
UK borrowing hits new record as Government spending jumps
Britain's public borrowing hit a shocking new record as Government spending surged in November, sounding alarm bells about the Treasury's ability to hit its targets for reining in the UK's finances.
.../
"These figures really are a bolt from the blue," said Andrew Goodwin, senior economic advisor to the Ernst & Young ITEM Club.
"The November figures pretty much wipe out all of the 2010/11 reduction in borrowing in one fell swoop."

Quick, implement Plan B!!!!!!

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What is reality? Especially when you are talking economics.

IMO, much (but not all) is relative. I am in a deflationary spiral at the moment as my rent went down 60% this year and I am holding US $ relative to the £. House prices, my main purchase objective, fell 15% in 2010 and I expect another 15% down in 2011. My Plasma (neo-plasma mind you) Tele went down about 30% in 2010 whihc is when I made the jump.

Deflation is most congenial.

Like they say out West (or is it up North?): One man's meat is another man's poison.

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Why don't the government just implement some spending cuts on things like the public sector? You know, now, not in 2014. Increase CGT on property to 70%.

So far all they have done is get rid of a couple of quangos and given people early retirement. A couple of weeks ago they even reduced the target number of job loses. They clearly do not have a clue and will end up trying to print their way out of trouble.

The ConDems just don't seem to have the stomach to do the cutting required to bring the deficit under control.

If the 'not so' emergency budget is anything to go by then we are heading for disaster. By the time they decided what £6bn to cut the £6bn had already gone up in smoke.

I see a future where they print us into the position of a months wage buying a weeks worth of groceries :unsure:

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What is reality? Especially when you are talking economics.

IMO, much (but not all) is relative. I am in a deflationary spiral at the moment as my rent went down 60% this year and I am holding US $ relative to the £. House prices, my main purchase objective, fell 15% in 2010 and I expect another 15% down in 2011. My Plasma (neo-plasma mind you) Tele went down about 30% in 2010 whihc is when I made the jump.

Deflation is most congenial.

Like they say out West (or is it up North?): One man's meat is another man's poison.

You're channeling Injin! :lol:

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Why don't the government just implement some spending cuts on things like the public sector? You know, now, not in 2014. Increase CGT on property to 70%.

So far all they have done is get rid of a couple of quangos and given people early retirement. A couple of weeks ago they even reduced the target number of job loses. They clearly do not have a clue and will end up trying to print their way out of trouble.

Headline

Cameron & Osbourne throw another £7.Billion at corrupt, bankrupt Irish bankers

Following month's headline "record borrowing"

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It would appear that the Koalishon's plans are dashed.

They never looked viable to me as everything was based on strong growth, high employment (ttansfer from non-productive sector to private sector), continuing HPI (avoiding need to raise the rates) and everyone else who buys our stuff growing too.

Alice-in-wonderland thinking. Comes from having professional politicians running things when the nation needs experience as we had when WW2 broke loose and Winston stepped in having actually served in the military for a fews years as well as the Admiralty. Pity Vince may have cooked his goose getting caried away in front of two charmers (well, maybe one anyway).

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UK borrowing hits new record as Government spending jumps

Britain's public borrowing hit a shocking new record as Government spending surged in November, sounding alarm bells about the Treasury's ability to hit its targets for reining in the UK's finances

Coalition/Tories scorching the scorched earth. They saw NuLabour doing it and think it might work for them as well.

They might as well go the whole hog and try a few rain dances too, they nearly always work in the UK.

Edited by billybong

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It would appear that the Koalishon's plans are dashed.

They never looked viable to me as everything was based on strong growth, high employment (ttansfer from non-productive sector to private sector), continuing HPI (avoiding need to raise the rates) and everyone else who buys our stuff growing too.

Alice-in-wonderland thinking. Comes from having professional politicians running things when the nation needs experience as we had when WW2 broke loose and Winston stepped in having actually served in the military for a fews years as well as the Admiralty. Pity Vince may have cooked his goose getting caried away in front of two charmers (well, maybe one anyway).

Yes,

shame about Vince. After all, declaring War on Murdoch doesnt sound to me like a resigning issue, but something that ought to be praised. I bet that the Torygraph could have got a War on the Bankers statement from him as well, except that wouldnt have been a resigning issue, so not so newsworthy. From the interviews I have seen, he really wanted to have a go at the banks and their leadership, who have been using bonuses and excessive salaries to inveigle monies from the taxpayer and shareholders.

He also appeared to be tight lipped on the forthcoming HBOS report from the FSA, but the non-answers that he did give when asked to comment on it suggested to me that he was suspecting that it would touch on criminal actions. I am not sure if he understands the necessity to end massive fiscal deficits or not, but he seems to realise that letting bankers thieve customers, taxpayers and shareholders without threat of any sanction, is no way to run an economy.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8217823/UK-borrowing-hits-new-record-as-Government-spending-jumps.html

Economics
UK borrowing hits new record as Government spending jumps
Britain's public borrowing hit a shocking new record as Government spending surged in November, sounding alarm bells about the Treasury's ability to hit its targets for reining in the UK's finances.
.../
"These figures really are a bolt from the blue," said Andrew Goodwin, senior economic advisor to the Ernst & Young ITEM Club.
"The November figures pretty much wipe out all of the 2010/11 reduction in borrowing in one fell swoop."

Quick, implement Plan B!!!!!!

I think plan B involves taking a private jet to a small island retreat.

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Sorry, I can't work out from this thread whether people

(i) want to see more, faster cuts

(ii) want to see fewer cuts

(iii) don't know what they want but certainly want to say it's all really bad.

On reflection, the answer is obvious,

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Sorry, I can't work out from this thread whether people

(i) want to see more, faster cuts

(ii) want to see fewer cuts

(iii) don't know what they want but certainly want to say it's all really bad.

On reflection, the answer is obvious,

1. Very cheap houses to get a roof over their own heads next year.

2. Accepting there will be some pain to get to that point and hope its not their job that goes

Sadly, without an economic collapse the government can keep the HPI machine going forever as Brown had suggested was possible when he thought he had house prices under control (i.e. forever rising to fuel spending) and ended the bust side of the business cycle.

Edited by Realistbear

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Headline

Cameron & Osbourne throw another £7.Billion at corrupt, bankrupt Irish bankers

Following month's headline "record borrowing"

The brilliant thing is that the £23.3Bn deficit fro Nov. didn't include other outgoings like that £7Bn. I'm happy as a pig in sh1t right now.

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The brilliant thing is that the £23.3Bn deficit fro Nov. didn't include other outgoings like that £7Bn. I'm happy as a pig in sh1t right now.

Is this (yet) another "Gold will make me rich" comment? Honestly, unless you've literally got many kilos of the stuff this is fantasy as the downsides of any serious economic meltdown will more than swamp any technical gains made on a yellow metal without practical use.

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Sorry, I can't work out from this thread whether people

(i) want to see more, faster cuts

(ii) want to see fewer cuts

(iii) don't know what they want but certainly want to say it's all really bad.

On reflection, the answer is obvious,

I don't care what happens, not enough cuts and more QE equals inflationary spiral, too many cuts and rising rates equals deflationary collapse. Either way sterling is toast. The same situation applies across most of the west, so their currencies are going down too. It's going to end in disaster either way, so it's a win/win situation.

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Is this (yet) another "Gold will make me rich" comment? Honestly, unless you've literally got many kilos of the stuff this is fantasy as the downsides of any serious economic meltdown will more than swamp any technical gains made on a yellow metal without practical use.

I'm not rolling in the stuff, but I'm lucky enough to already own my own modest 2-bed outright, so I have sufficient gold that a house price collapse (I am of the biflation camp for the initial collapse phase - house bubble bursting but rises in fuel, food, clothing etc.) accompanied by the gold price doubling (it's already given me 30% gains) will sort me out a decent 4-bed house, pretty much outright I believe.

Anything I earn after that will be mostly disposable income, so while not rich, rich, I'll be enjoying a decent standard of living and be debt free without having to work too hard, and that'll be rich enough for me. B)

Edited by General Congreve

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I don't care what happens, not enough cuts and more QE equals inflationary spiral, too many cuts and rising rates equals deflationary collapse. Either way sterling is toast. The same situation applies across most of the west, so their currencies are going down too. It's going to end in disaster either way, so it's a win/win situation.

See my post above.

Really, if you declare you have a massive investment in Gold then say so and I'll leave you to it but if it's fairly small (under half a million pounds worth at current price) then what you're wishing for will bring you far more pain that profit. Even if it's bigger you'll have a major problem convincing everyone to supply you with bread and petrol in exchange for any kind of recognised amount of Gold, if it's currency collapse you're looking forward to.

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See my post above.

Really, if you declare you have a massive investment in Gold then say so and I'll leave you to it but if it's fairly small (under half a million pounds worth at current price) then what you're wishing for will bring you far more pain that profit. Even if it's bigger you'll have a major problem convincing everyone to supply you with bread and petrol in exchange for any kind of recognised amount of Gold, if it's currency collapse you're looking forward to.

I think they've still got petrol and bread in Iceland, haven't heard of any bread queues there, despite their currency being cut in three.

Anyway, what you're basically saying is abandon all hope! Don't even bother buying any amount of financial insurance against a £ collapse unless you can buy 500k worth of gold! Great advice Bogbrush, really great advice.

By the way I have no intention to go round bartering with pieces of gold. A currency collapse will very quickly be followed by default on the nations debts and then the issuance of a new currency, where one new pound will equal 100 old pounds or something like that, this is the way it works. Anyone with pounds in the bank (if his/her bank is still operational) will lose a tonne of money. Me on the other hand, I'll have protected and expanded my savings by holding the best currency in town. Collapse is coming anyway, so what's not to like about protecting (and undoubtedly expanding) whatever you have, rather than losing the lot, even if it is just making the best of a bad situation? According to you we should all be not bothering with gold and throwing our hands up in the air and running round shouting 'PANIC!!!' and believe there's nothing we can do to stop our savings becoming toast.

EDIT: Oh look, it's just punched back through the £900/Oz barrier.

Edited by General Congreve

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Another day, another thread turns Golden...

The thing about trading Gold for supplies is you don't have to. You convert Gold into fiat via a dealer and then buy supplies with fiat. If the fiat is in free-fall (Zimbabwe style) then obviously the converted fiat will lose its buying power pretty fast. That's where Silver comes in useful for small purchases of bread and milk say :P

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I think they've still got petrol and bread in Iceland, haven't heard of any bread queues there, despite their currency being cut in three.

Anyway, what you're basically saying is abandon all hope! Don't even bother buying any amount of financial insurance against a £ collapse unless you can buy 500k worth of gold! Great advice Bogbrush, really great advice.

By the way I have no intention to go round bartering with pieces of gold. A currency collapse will very quickly be followed by default on the nations debts and then the issuance of a new currency, where one new pound will equal 100 old pounds or something like that, this is the way it works. Anyone with pounds in the bank (if his/her bank is still operational) will lose a tonne of money. Me on the other hand, I'll have protected and expanded my savings by holding the best currency in town. Collapse is coming anyway, so what's not to like about protecting (and undoubtedly expanding) whatever you have, rather than losing the lot, even if it is just making the best of a bad situation? According to you we should all be not bothering with gold and throwing our hands up in the air and running round shouting 'PANIC!!!' and believe there's nothing we can do to stop our savings becoming toast.

Are they paying for it in Gold in Iceland?

Obviously the way to retain wealth is to have useful stuff; live in the right place, own durable yielding assets, have good value promises that will be kept. Which of these does gold correspond to?

I'm the last person to preach panic, but I do find it ridiculous that you jump up in glee in every relevant thread shouting about how great it will be if fiat currency collapses because you've got some yellow metal stashed. You weren't saying it was the best of a bad lot, I think the term this thread is "happy as a pig in sh1t", which kind of implies you think your boat is coming in. It won't, not from some stored sovereigns.

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stuff

i own gold & silver - mainly due to this site.

i bought it mostly in 2006 + 2007.

however it doesn't bring me much joy. why? even though i've "protected" this capital (ho ho ho!) i'd have much rather not have had to buy the bloody stuff in the first place.

in fact it make me very angry that the greedy bankers and the stupid politicans have brought about this situation. let's not forget the bovine reckless public as well.

i'm afraid IMHO you come across as a bit of a nut - what sort of person wants "the system" to collapse, flawed though it is? most people want to live their lives, pay their taxes, go to work and enjoy their time on this earth. life is short. very short. read the 'ferfal' blog about that bloke in argentina who live through the 'corralito'. do you want that?

mate, i've been there. i was that person refreshing the kitco page. i was that person ranting on at work about buying gold and silver and how northern rock was going to go down etc etc.

please tone it down a bit. i don't like having to put people on ignore (in fact i only have one).

Edited by gasket37

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  • 285 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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