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Hs2

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All those placard waving protestors against HS2 make me sick.

Not one coherent argument against on objective grounds between the lot of them.

Probably the most important transport infrastructure project of the 21st Century and all

they do is bitch on about their 'view', hearing a couple of trains an hour (boo-hoo) or their delusional house value.

Do any of them have any constructive arguments on re-routing, or explanations as to why their

bleedin' back garden is more important than Betty's in the next village?

No.

Self centred, knuckle scraping, jerks.

Sorry if there's already been a thread on this I didn't notice.

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All those placard waving protestors against HS2 make me sick.

Not one coherent argument against on objective grounds between the lot of them.

Probably the most important transport infrastructure project of the 21st Century and all

they do is bitch on about their 'view', hearing a couple of trains an hour (boo-hoo) or their delusional house value.

Do any of them have any constructive arguments on re-routing, or explanations as to why their

bleedin' back garden is more important than Betty's in the next village?

No.

Self centred, knuckle scraping, jerks.

Sorry if there's already been a thread on this I didn't notice.

Need to setup a counter-protest really. You could start by posting (slightly more politely :D ) your above salient points onto some of the Websites (Bucks County Council might be a good place to start) that support these knuckle-scraping NIMBYs that HS2 has to go somewhere.

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It's standard fare though, isn't it. It's the same kind of people who want their life to continue as it is, but don't want the nuclear power station to be built, and certainly not near their home. Obviously it's absolutely fine to put it near someone else's. It's the same with new housing developments, etc, etc.

Perhaps a good starting point for the rebuttal could be that HS2 would speed up journey times to London, meaning that their houses would go up in value. They'd lap it up!

It seems to me that people in this country have become far too prissy about everything and need a good hard slap of reality. :angry:

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Yea when I started driving a truck, all the houses along Detling Hill used to have signs in their gardens saying "No to Juggernauts" and "Freight off road on rail" and similar, despite it being an A road linking two motorways, and then one day the Gubmint said it was going to build the CTRL and it was going to run across the bottom of Detling Hill and *instantly* all these signs came down and were replaced with ones saying "No Rail Link here".

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Not sure about this. NIMBYism with regards to local housing development is selfish, but if I owned a house I would be more than a little put out if a major train line was installed visibly or audibly close to it.

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The proposed line bulldozes straight through my workplace, which at best means a massive upheaval for a business that employs 400 people at that site, and at worst means quite a lot of job losses.

It doesn't appear to benefit anyone on the route; only those who need to get from Birmingham to London a little bit faster.

I can see the protesters' point.

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Self centred, knuckle scraping, jerks.

Sorry if there's already been a thread on this I didn't notice.

What, just so you can rush around a little quicker? HS2 is a complete and utter waste of money, particularly the way it's being put forward. Being promoted as a capacity-relieving solution it would make sense, but "Hey, let's spend a fortune just to make a fairly short journey shorter"? Spend the money on services to somewhere where there aren't any, or on reducing fares, or on longer trains with better seating first. HS2 has all the hallmarks of just about anything expensive proposed whilst Labour was in power - a big glitzy show-off big spend instead of trying to tackle the less glamarous but more fundamental problems. Objections against something that's just being sold as an expensive luxury for the impatient are perfectly understandable.

And what's wrong with finding beauty in a view more worthwhile than being able to rush around a bit faster? A fool wouldn't through a treasure on a fire to survive, but some people would do it if they were just a little chilly. We'd be living in caves if we gave in to the former, and in hell with the latter.

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It's standard fare though, isn't it. It's the same kind of people who want their life to continue as it is, but don't want the nuclear power station to be built, and certainly not near their home. Obviously it's absolutely fine to put it near someone else's. It's the same with new housing developments, etc, etc.

Yes. If it's somewhere nice then they shouldn't build it near their homes. Build it near mine instead. I'd be perfectly happy with a nuclear power station down the road, not living anywhere that's got much to be spoiled by it. NIMBYism is too often used as a straw man to come up with an excuse to ignore objections.

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They just want an incentive to sweeten the deal thats all.

My dad for instance got a sweetner when they build a massive pipe from Donguan China to HK to supply water. He does not have to pay for water till 2070.

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High Speed Two?

What's the hurry? Everything is speeding up, and ironically we tend to have less and less time to actually enjoy life. What's the point?

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Not sure about this. NIMBYism with regards to local housing development is selfish, but if I owned a house I would be more than a little put out if a major train line was installed visibly or audibly close to it.

I bet even people who live 5 or 6 miles away are objecting to it.

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I bet even people who live 5 or 6 miles away are objecting to it.

Heh I hate trains for this very reason....

Night after night sleeping in ditches and in the Siberian tree line, night after night clackety clack clackety clack of the long trains in Russia.

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Heh I hate trains for this very reason....

Night after night sleeping in ditches and in the Siberian tree line, night after night clackety clack clackety clack of the long trains in Russia.

Generally, I find that if you live near a railway, you don't notice the noise after the first 20 minutes.

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High Speed Two?

What's the hurry? Everything is speeding up, and ironically we tend to have less and less time to actually enjoy life. What's the point?

Well, a far better point than rushing around is that the West Coast Main Line is pretty well full up. I can accept the concept of a new railway sold on that principle (assuming there isn't an existing one that couldn't be upgraded to sufficiently relieve it - the existing Chiltern line perhaps?), and you may as well build a high speed one if it doesn't add much to the cost. However, I usually worry when people start talking about more, more, more! to relieve this or that problem. Are you going to have to do the same thing again some time in the future to relieve that, then again, then again...

Generally, I find that if you live near a railway, you don't notice the noise after the first 20 minutes.

Edit to reply to this point. Certainly true enough, in my experience, of a single track, fairly slow branch line (although this was in France so actually had more than 1 train a day). I'm not sure I'd like to live near a busy, fast main line though. Also, whilst you stop noticing the noise fairly quickly you do notice it when it's gone - again, being France, there was a nice quiet period when they were on strike. I'd probably also not want to live near a preserved steam railway, with the chance of getting soot dumped all over you regularly.

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The proposed line bulldozes straight through my workplace, which at best means a massive upheaval for a business that employs 400 people at that site, and at worst means quite a lot of job losses.

It doesn't appear to benefit anyone on the route; only those who need to get from Birmingham to London a little bit faster.

I can see the protesters' point.

1. This is a project that will benefit millions of people and thousands of businesses. 400 people is a lot when viewed from the perspective of our individual lives but its a trivial point to a team planning a massive change to the UK's national infrastructure.

2. There are 20 mile stretches of Motorway that don't benefit people on the route - its in the nature of high speed links - they are to connect conurbations, not provide for Fred to pop 8 miles across the country to see Bill - that's why some Mway junctions are restricted to stop locals using them in that way. The whole point is to move large batches of people very quickly and you won't do that stopping the train frequently.

"a little bit faster" - have you read the specs?

These trains can comfortably cruise at 250mph, they will only get faster - the TGV has reached 357mph. Commendably, the tracks are being laid to accommodate 400mph. If only transport projects of the past had included such 'over-speccing'.

This isn't a little bit faster this is near jet airliner pace - 747 cruises at 500mph for comparison.

The argument about just connecting Bham to London doesn't hold water either - this is phase 1 of a network connecting the North and Scotland to Bham and London. The expected journey times are quite extraordinary - 2h45 from London to Edinburgh. The potential for 2hr Scotland to London expresses should demand arise - don't scoff, thats barely quicker than the existing Barcelona to Madrid run.

The protesters have points to make. I just despair at their lack of interest in finding a way forward. For instance, lowering the line 3m would reduce the noise and visual impact tremendously. It would also cost several billion more to make deeper cuttings and lower tunnels.

I appreciate that some are very upset but where's their imagination and creativity?

The ones who just see a chance to crank up what will probably be substantial cash compensation are just selfish scum though.

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Generally, I find that if you live near a railway, you don't notice the noise after the first 20 minutes.

+1. I lived with a cutting at the bottom of the garden for 13 years. The main line between Chelt & Glos. 2 tracks, trains every 20-30mins from 5am to about midnight.

We loved it there - only moved to be in the same village as the school our boys went to.

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+1. I lived with a cutting at the bottom of the garden for 13 years. The main line between Chelt & Glos. 2 tracks, trains every 20-30mins from 5am to about midnight.

We loved it there - only moved to be in the same village as the school our boys went to.

Regardless, if you've spent years slogging away to pay a mortgage off, you really deserve a say in what happens on your doorstep.

I agree these projects could be for the net public good, but I don't think it's fair to attack the protesters quite so full on. Some of them will have a fair and valid financial and quality of life stake in the outcome.

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. I'd probably also not want to live near a preserved steam railway, with the chance of getting soot dumped all over you regularly.

Each to their own, but I would regard that as "Free Scenery".

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The idea that we should spend untold tens of billions of pounds to shave half an hour off the train journey from Birmingham or Manchester to London is so ridiculous that I'm amazed it's got this far. At present, Manchester-London is about 2 hours and Birmingham-London is 1.5 hours. The UK is a small country!

There are some serious diminishing returns at work here. Does anybody seriously believe that saving businessmen and civil servants half an hour every now and then will result in tens of billions of pounds in new economic growth? If not, why are we throwing money we don't have down the plughole?

I don't have a car and travel everywhere by public transport, but even I can see this is wasted money. Why not spend it on regional rail, or buses, or maybe even not spend the money at all and reduce the debt burden on future generations?

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The argument about just connecting Bham to London doesn't hold water either - this is phase 1 of a network connecting the North and Scotland to Bham and London. The expected journey times are quite extraordinary - 2h45 from London to Edinburgh. The potential for 2hr Scotland to London expresses should demand arise - don't scoff, thats barely quicker than the existing Barcelona to Madrid run.

And what's so great about being able to get from London to Edinburgh in that time that makes it worth the cost, both monetary and in dragging a big scar through some attractive parts of the country?

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There are some serious diminishing returns at work here. Does anybody seriously believe that saving businessmen and civil servants half an hour every now and then will result in tens of billions of pounds in new economic growth? If not, why are we throwing money we don't have down the plughole?

That's true.

And it doesn't really feel as if we have a problem with overcrowding on trains apart from high peak times and on some of the London commuter trains. Most of the long distance trains during the week are half empty. Nobody can afford them.

That said, big infrastructure projects are useful as a means to an end too. I known lots of people who have stayed employed through the recession as a result of the olympics for instance. I'd rather see the money spent on something like this than spunked up the wall on some banking bailout.

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The idea that we should spend untold tens of billions of pounds to shave half an hour off the train journey from Birmingham or Manchester to London is so ridiculous that I'm amazed it's got this far. At present, Manchester-London is about 2 hours and Birmingham-London is 1.5 hours. The UK is a small country!

There are some serious diminishing returns at work here. Does anybody seriously believe that saving businessmen and civil servants half an hour every now and then will result in tens of billions of pounds in new economic growth? If not, why are we throwing money we don't have down the plughole?

I don't have a car and travel everywhere by public transport, but even I can see this is wasted money. Why not spend it on regional rail, or buses, or maybe even not spend the money at all and reduce the debt burden on future generations?

Sure - lets spend it on other public transport instead. Absolutely - thats my point - you have made a constructive suggestion whereas the protesters are just waving placards and creating hysterical anti-HS2 websites.

WRT to the cost I can't believe the fuss over spending £30bn on HS2 over 20years when we are spending £90bn a year on the NHS predominantly on old people in the last 6mths of life and looking up the bums of the over 50s.

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Each to their own, but I would regard that as "Free Scenery".

My FIL would regard it as 'free porn', we swear he gets off on the smell of steam locos.

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WRT to the cost I can't believe the fuss over spending £30bn on HS2 over 20years when we are spending £90bn a year on the NHS predominantly on old people in the last 6mths of life and looking up the bums of the over 50s.

It's going to take 20 years to build? The Victorians must be turning over in their graves.

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1. This is a project that will benefit millions of people and thousands of businesses. 400 people is a lot when viewed from the perspective of our individual lives but its a trivial point to a team planning a massive change to the UK's national infrastructure.

2. There are 20 mile stretches of Motorway that don't benefit people on the route - its in the nature of high speed links - they are to connect conurbations, not provide for Fred to pop 8 miles across the country to see Bill - that's why some Mway junctions are restricted to stop locals using them in that way. The whole point is to move large batches of people very quickly and you won't do that stopping the train frequently.

"a little bit faster" - have you read the specs?

These trains can comfortably cruise at 250mph, they will only get faster - the TGV has reached 357mph. Commendably, the tracks are being laid to accommodate 400mph. If only transport projects of the past had included such 'over-speccing'.

This isn't a little bit faster this is near jet airliner pace - 747 cruises at 500mph for comparison.

The argument about just connecting Bham to London doesn't hold water either - this is phase 1 of a network connecting the North and Scotland to Bham and London. The expected journey times are quite extraordinary - 2h45 from London to Edinburgh. The potential for 2hr Scotland to London expresses should demand arise - don't scoff, thats barely quicker than the existing Barcelona to Madrid run.

The protesters have points to make. I just despair at their lack of interest in finding a way forward. For instance, lowering the line 3m would reduce the noise and visual impact tremendously. It would also cost several billion more to make deeper cuttings and lower tunnels.

I appreciate that some are very upset but where's their imagination and creativity?

The ones who just see a chance to crank up what will probably be substantial cash compensation are just selfish scum though.

You don't even need to go that far, using more expensive 'clips' can cut out a lot of the noise. The extra cost of which would probably only be a few million.

BTW the track 'over-speccing' isn't 'commendable' it's happened by default. The manufacturers of rails/sleepers/clips have a 'high-speed' product range, which is rated for TGV/Bullet use.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


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