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Libdem Lord Oakeshott Is A Property Vi Misleading B@stard

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Interview Between Banker and Lord Oakeshott.

Broadcast Newsnight 17/12/2010: Interview Starts at 11:20

However Mandatory Listening from 17:00. The exchange only lasts for about a minute between Oakeshott and the Banker. But is most enlightening.

[Discussing 30% deposits for FTB'ers.]

[i had taken the trouble to type the entire verbal exchange in, but the post has vanished or been removed for some unexplained reason....]:angry:

Edited by Dan1

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However Mandatory Listening from 17:00. The exchange only lasts for about a minute between Oakeshott and the Banker. But is most enlightening.

[Discussing 30% deposits for FTB'ers.]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oakeshott: "You need a 30% deposit to get a [mortgage] deposit at a decent rate. They [the banks] are not doing their basic job of lending to homebuyers. And they are failing the country still"

Banker: "No unless you're proposing to have 5% down, to get a mortgage, and banks to lend Northern Rock type figures of 125% again?"

Oakeshott: "No No absolutely not! Do you seriously think that people should find a 30% deposit to get a house?!"

Banker: "That's sounds reasonable to me Yeh."

Oakeshott: "Its ridiculos! what chance have ordinary people got to get a house?! Youre totally out of touch with ordinary people in this country! What chance have they got of getting a house?!"

Banker: "I am not out of touch with ordinary people. If you're saying that banks should have a proper equity cushion, how can you then say that homeowners should not have a proper equity cushion?!"

Indeed....................<_<

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gavin from Newsnight then interrupts, and ends the debate. Just at the most interesting point.

Presumably as the BBC's unwritten policy is 'dont let them talk too much or they might actually begin to tell the truth about the economic situation, and how we got here.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the beginning of VI Panic in the Treasury.

*But Is it also unwritten treasury policy?*

It sounds like elements want the ponzi scheme to continue, because UK debt is at £6 trillion, is basically unpayable in our lifetimes, and rather than let house prices return to affordable levels, they have simply decided, without daring to tell us, that out of pure self interest, they may as well keep the stolen profits themselves, not let a crash occur, pass the debt onto us, and keep us in debt slavery?

Working for nothing. No capital. Forever.

If they would simply come out and tell us one way or the other, it would help many of us decide whether to take to the streets 'greek style' or continue trying to work and be productive members of society

I am not working for nothing for another decade. Had enough. Past Caring.

The Government and the banks have already stolen tens of thousands of pounds from me in 'wasted rent' via liar loans etc.

[Nice Find TOW]

Edited by Dan1

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However Mandatory Listening from 17:00. The exchange only lasts for about a minute between Oakeshott and the Banker. But is most enlightening.

[Discussing 30% deposits for FTB'ers.]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oakeshott: "You need a 30% deposit to get a [mortgage] deposit at a decent rate. They [the banks] are not doing their basic job of lending to homebuyers. And they are failing the country still"

Banker: "No unless you're proposing to have 5% down, to get a mortgage, and banks to lend Northern Rock type figures of 125% again?"

Oakeshott: "No No absolutely not! Do you seriously think that people should find a 30% deposit to get a house?!"

Banker: "That's sounds reasonable to me Yeh."

Oakeshott: "Its ridiculos! what chance have ordinary people got to get a house?! Youre totally out of touch with ordinary people in this country! What chance have they got of getting a house?!"

Banker: "I am not out of touch with ordinary people. If you're saying that banks should have a proper equity cushion, how can you then say that homeowners should not have a proper equity cushion?!"

Indeed....................<_<

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gavin from Newsnight then interrupts, and ends the debate. Just at the most interesting point.

Presumably as the BBC's unwritten policy is 'dont let them talk too much or they might actually begin to tell the truth about the economic situation, and how we got here.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the beginning of VI Panic in the Treasury.

*But Is it also unwritten treasury policy?*

It sounds like elements want the ponzi scheme to continue, because UK debt is at £6 trillion, is basically unpayable in our lifetimes, and rather than let house prices return to affordable levels, they have simply decided, without daring to tell us, that out of pure self interest, they may as well keep the stolen profits themselves, not let a crash occur, pass the debt onto us, and keep us in debt slavery?

Working for nothing. No capital. Forever.

If they would simply come out and tell us one way or the other, it would help many of us decide whether to take to the streets 'greek style' or continue trying to work and be productive members of society

I am not working for nothing for another decade. Had enough. Past Caring.

The Government and the banks have already stolen tens of thousands of pounds from me in 'wasted rent' via liar loans etc.

[Nice Find TOW]

...he would like people to buy in a falling market ...to support his interests.....?..... :rolleyes:

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So,

1. Lord Oakshott has lots of investment property.

2. He wants young people to take on larger debts.

That would contribute to higher property prices, which would be in his personal self-interest.

But it would not be in the interests of the young people, who would have more debt to pay back.

Looks like lord tosser is going to take a hit, tough luck chump, his performance on Newsnight the other evening has led me to classify him as a numpty, he lost his cool, tried to talk down reality, game over really. This bloke and his ilk can f*uck off as far as I am concerned.

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I have difficulty believing that Tamara De Lempicka can be serious. Every bubble, every ponzi scheme, and every pyramid scheme like chain-letters must collapse sooner or later. Surely we all know that? :blink:

I am 99% sure that if there were a sarcasm emoticon, Tamara would have used it .....

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I'm afraid I came to the same conclusion as TOW, after seeing Lord Oakeshott's comments on Newsnight 2 or 3 weeks ago.

He is mindlessly repeating a popular meme and with the other hand collecting heavily (or trying to) from our beloved institution of property profit based welfare

Popular sentiment sees no problem with this

Edited by Stars

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I have to go out in a minute, so I could not be arsed to write a 'proper' letter, so I just sent him a bunch of old posts 'stitched' together @ theyworkforyou

Dear Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay,

With reference to your Newsnight interview, I wanted to contact you/. I know many others in my situation would have wanted to as well.

We have been priced out of housing for over a decade.

In 1997, according to the Office of National Statistics, the national average wage was £16,666.

According to the Nationwide Building Society the Average House price in 1997 was £55k.

£16,666/£55,000 = 3.3x salary.

* The Average FTB mortgage in 1997 was just £41.5k [CML]

By 2007, at the peak of the boom [according to the Office of National Statistics] the national average wage had risen to £23.5k

The Average House Price in 2007 was £185k.

£185,000/£23.5k = 7.8x salary

Conclusion:

The national average salary in the UK has risen by only 6.8K from 1997 to 2007 as house prices have more than trebled.

The Average house price would need to fall by around 60% in value, from its peak 2007 valuation, to fall back in line with historically acceptable inflationary affordability of 3 - 3.5x salary

[Over two thirds of the UK earn less than average wage.]

[in 2008 an ONS survey showed that over 6 million people earn £10k per annum or less. These included Hairdressers and Cleaners.]

Like millions of other normal hardworking people, we have been priced out of housing for over a decade. Year after year we have seen house prices rise further and further out of our reach.

Forced to waste tens of thousands of pounds in rent. To a liar loan landlord. Because of Labours sheer, evil incompetence, and the banks greed and theft.

You seem to be advocating a return to the housing ponzi scheme? Although I am sure you would deny it.

Everyone I know earns between £12k-£24k per annum.

From 1987 to 1997 the Average House Price rose from £40k to £55k.

A 33.3% rise over ten years.

From 1997 to 2007, the Average House Price rose from £55k to £190k [Nationwide Building Society figures]

A staggering 245.5% increase over the same period. [Ten years.]

The reasons for this are entirely the Labour Parties Fault.

1. "In America, the Glass-Steagall Act had protected deposit-taking commercial banks from the risky activities of the investment banks. Congress was effectively obliged to repeal the Act in 1999 because New York was losing its business to London, which had no such restrictions and the "light touch" regulation encouraged by Gordon Brown. Had Britain [brown] enacted similar legislation to Glass-Steagall, the US Act would not have been repealed, the City would have made less money but the banking collapse in both America and Britain would have been avoided"

2. Complete failure to build social housing. Labour built , an average of 26,000 fewer homes each year between 1997 and 2009. Under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, the country witnessed the lowest level of house building in peacetime since 1924

3. The tripartite system put in place by New Labour to regulate the economy was a direct cause for the financial crisis.

Lord Vallance, chairman of the House of Lords economics affairs committee. [Tasked to look into the causes of the Crisis]

* "It is clear that in the UK the tripartite authorities of the Bank of England, FSA, and the Treasury failed to maintain financial stability, in part because it was not clear who was in charge in a crisis and because not enough attention was paid to macro-prudential supervision – oversight of the aggregate effect of the actions of individual banks – in the period when 'boom and bust' occured.

4.In his 1997 budget, Brown abolished dividend tax credits on pension funds. Companies saw the writing on the wall and immediately ended their final salary pension schemes to new employees shortly after the 'Brown raid'.* The value of pension funds have since lost around £5bn per year since the 1997 tax relief cuts. Pension funds holding the cash that almost everyone in the country had planned to use for our retirement have lost around £100 billion over 12 years. [1997-2007]

The advice Brown was given by this Treasury Paper, in 1997 was as follows:

'The changes in incentives are likely to lead to substantial changes in portfolios. Pension funds will find equity relatively less attractive, and will prefer other assets – particularly interest bearing securities and foreign equity – and may also be prompted to consider more direct property investment.'

This was ignored by Brown. Those funds were then channelled into fuelling an unsustainable property bubble, {BTL portfolios,} which developed because of Labours complete lack of regulation of the Banks.This was followed by rising house prices, ever increasing toxic mortgage debt, and this was followed by the bank bailouts.

Roughly 60% of houses historically acquired by First Time Buyers, were then acquired by the Buy To Let brigade. This figure rose year on year, from 1998-2003.

FTBers were priced out completely.

This is just one example of Gordon Browns incompetent decision making which helped to create the cornerstone of the debt bubble.

5.Brown had every opportunity to face the problem. Instead in 2003 Brown switched the housing inflation figures from RPI to CPI, hiding the debt. [Much the Same thing he did with PFI.]

THESE are the reasons house prices rose to astronomical unsustainable levels.

Without the bank bailouts, house prices would have crashed by 60% plus.

So the only reason they have not crashed is because of Government theft of our taxes and QE.

So the theft of our taxes, and the devaluation of the pound in our pockets, via QE, to pay for this toxic mortgage debt,

Is In effect, forcing us to pay for others houses, whilst keeping house prices massively overinflated, ensuring we can never afford our own house. Working for nothing. No capital.

Its soul destroying. [How many who own houses, could afford their houses if they had to buy them right now?]

The Labour Party are incompetent economic Fascists.

The Labour party have implemented policies which support one section of a society, to the extreme detriment of another section of that society [via blatant theft and cronyism]

Obviously not a 'socialist' or 'democratic' act.

You think the cuts and the pain are just arriving now. Try working for nothing, for over a decade, and being utterly ignored. [Every Email sent to Labour was ignored, over 8 years, until it transpired that my local Labour MP, had made over £200k flipping houses in a secret expenses system.

n 2009 When the Telegraph first broke the expenses scandal.

Gordon Brown and LABOUR forced a three line whip, to try to exempt MP's second home expenses from the Freedom Of Information act.

From being made public. [both the Tories and Lib dems voted in favour of MP's expenses for second homes being made public.]

Sir Ian Kennedy, chairman of the new Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority (Ipsa) ruled that Ministers should repay profits on their second homes.

However, that only applies to gains from November 2009!

So profits from massive House Price Increases UP TO November 2009, were locked in.

HPI was all cream for our elected officials.

[Profits from second homes needed to be backdated to 1997, or the beginning of an MP's tenure.]

The truth is that there was never any political will to enable the average person earning average wage to be able to afford an average house in a rising unregulated market, under a secret expenses system, where MP's were all flipping houses, making hundreds of thousands in personal profits.

Not one MP represented the average wage earner.

It is not just that they used our money to profit, and paid no tax on the gains, it is also that it created a dangerous conflict of interest that meant that voting for policies which fed the house price bubble, for so many years, such as keeping IR too low for too long, CGT etc, also generated personal profits for them, in secret.

In any other profession this would be a criminal offence. It is market manipulation. Far worse than insider trading.

And now we see nothing has changed. [Whilst MP's are allowed to profit in this fashion, we will never see a tax on BTL. We will never see affordable housing]

Words Fail me. I honestly believe if MPs had not been making personal profits on first, second, even third homes for all those years, in secret, then rising house prices, the tripartite system, would have been examined a lot more closely. Probably ten years ago.

Proudhon criticized big capitalist property from the petty-bourgeois position and dreamed of perpetuating small private ownership.......

[Everything New Labour DIDNT do]

"We do not hesitate to assert that there is no more terrible mockery of the whole culture of our lauded century than the fact that in the big cities more and more of the population have no place that they can call their own. The real key point of moral and family existence, hearth and home, is being swept away"

The most notable characteristic of a FASCIST ideology is the separation and persecution or denial of equality to a specific segment of the population.

The preferred class lives in relative comfort, while the oppressed class lives in a Fascist state.

Labour's Fascist State.

Millions of us have already worked for over a decade for nothing. No capital. Unable to get ahead in life. And we are so beyond sick of this, it beggars belief.

Its theft. Plain and simple.

You know what? We are past caring.

I want to know whether to take to the streets 'Greek style' for the next few years, or continue to try to be a productive hardworking taxpaying member of society?

Its your decision. We voted for fairness, after 13 years of having those evil bastards in government.

All we ever wanted was a decent job and a small house. Which we could work for and pay for.

Stop this blatant theft. Bring house prices back down.

Yours sincerely,

Daniel Meeks

E@OE

Edited by Dan1

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I have to go out in a minute, so I could not be arsed to write a 'proper' letter, so I just sent him a bunch of old posts 'stitched' together @ theyworkforyou

Dear Lord Oakeshott of Seagrove Bay,

With reference to your Newsnight interview, I wanted to contact you/. I know many others in my situation would have wanted to as well.

Yours sincerely,

Daniel Meeks

E@OE

Well done!

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Interview Between Banker and Lord Oakeshott.

Broadcast Newsnight 17/12/2010: Interview Starts at 11:20

However Mandatory Listening from 17:00. The exchange only lasts for about a minute between Oakeshott and the Banker. But is most enlightening.

[Discussing 30% deposits for FTB'ers.]

[i had taken the trouble to type the entire verbal exchange in, but the post has vanished or been removed for some unexplained reason....]:angry:

Thanks for that Dan1.

This lord is weird. I know, they all are... but what is his... "goal"? "plan"? I don't even know how to put the question, much less the answer.

At one ponit he said that the cause of this whole economic crisis were banks' bonuses. And I don't think he meant an indirect cause (incentivising reckless behaviour, which would be correct), but directly! Like, the banks can't lend now because they spent all the money in bonuses. No credit bubble (hundreds of billions), no government deficit (hundreds of billions). Just bonuses (a few billions. Was it 5bn? 7bn? Annoying, of course, but not the cause of this crisis!) .

( Possibly on a side issue here, but from his CV and education I was sure this Lord had a very good brain and education, but... at 13:30, did he say "affective policies"?? :unsure: ). Anyway, about content:

13min 40sec:

Lord B@stard: " (...) the banks brought Britain to its keees with wild bonuses"

Gavin: We know that...

At 16min into the video, banker resists the suggestion that banks should be forced to lend more, as assets may not justify that.

Lord: "That is not the case here"

Gavin: "Indeed"

Either this Lord genuinely believe in the very stupid things he said, or he is a demagogue - and a brilliant actor.

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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Cheers. Yes, Im not sure what to make of it myself.

Anyway. I will post the reply If I get one.

Edited by Dan1

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Interests

'They' have completely sold orf their "Property funds management business" in October

So do they realise something the general public don't 'get' yet?

Insider info only been whispered/released in the "Gentlemans Clubs" of the City - The housing game is up?

http://www.closebrot....uk/latest.aspx

18 November 2010

Interim Management Statement Q1 2011

7 October 2010 Close Brothers announces sale of Property Funds Management Business

28 September 2010 Preliminary Results for the year ended 31 July 2010

23 July 2010 Trading statement

21 May 2010 Interim Management Statement Q3 2010

26 April 2010 Close Brothers launches first ever advertising campaign in national newspapers

22 April 2010 Announcement regarding Winterflood Securities

16 March 2010 Close Brothers announces Interim Results 2010

22 January 2010 Trading statement

4 January 2010 Acquisition of invoice financing loan book

This thread is like deja-vu of what we used to do on HPC years ago!

That is very interesting. Great find erranta, thanks for that.

So he sold it? And in October, eh?

I think that is good news actually.

But he is still campaigning for more mortgage lending. Why? He must still have some property interests. Surely.

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Brilliant work TOW. I'll add this new found info to today's daily mail article in which this idiot is quoted.

Thanks Pent Up. Nah, I just posted a suspicion, and other posters found lots of stuff.

Besides, this work is just starting. We have to find out more, and do something about it. We need to reach the main media.

And not only on this particular case, but we need to get the main media (or at least media more sensitive to younger people, perhaps like Channel 4, or the Independent?), to start to see and understand this property vested interests.

On a side issue, university students should be campaigning on these things too. It is in their interests. And some are studying subjects that would help them understand this credit/property bubble, like economics, town planning, etc. Housing costs will be much more important for their future quality of life than the uni. fees they are making so much fuss about now. Very short sighted. (Sorry, going off topic here.)

.

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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Looks like lord tosser is going to take a hit, tough luck chump, his performance on Newsnight the other evening has led me to classify him as a numpty, he lost his cool, tried to talk down reality, game over really. This bloke and his ilk can f*uck off as far as I am concerned.

He worries me. He is the Treasury spokesperson.

And I am sure there is a lot of property VI in the Tory party. I think it was mainly the LibDems that were aware of the bubble as a problem, mainly Vince Cable - now weakened.

I know the government can't buck the market, for ever. But they can max out the credit-cards trying.

Though... On the other hand... since we are not too far from maxing it out already, and the only alternative to a soft landing is a full blown crash... :) Am I onto something here? Let the b@stards try? Let's go Ic®eland? :D

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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He worries me. He is the Treasury spokesperson.

And I am sure there is a lot of property VI in the Tory party. I think it was mainly the LibDems that were aware of the bubble as a problem, mainly Vince Cable - now weakened.

I know the government can't buck the market, for ever. But they can max out the credit-cards trying.

Though... On the other hand... since we are not too far from maxing it out already, and the only alternative to a soft landing is a full blown crash... :) Am I onto something here? Let the b@stards try? Let's go Ic®eland? :D

More likely the "wealthy" version though? You own property outright ,live in it, enjoy it, and pass it on to your children, not the get rich quick ideal that has sucked in the little guys? The Tories want a controlled bust IMO but are not really interested in Joe Sheeple and his "portfolio" beyond the point where it causes problems for banks? As for the lib Dem guy, if he is still trying to "exit" property he is just another sucker, more likely IMO that he wants to put the spotlight squarely on the bankers and not on the VI`s like him who milked the credit bubble at the expense of less sophisticated sheeple? His behaviour on Newsnight though, flustered, interrupting etc seemed to indicate that he couldn`t bear the truth of why the banks will let some of the "froth" disappear from the market. He seemed in denial, much like some Bulls on here?

Edited by dances with sheeple

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More likely the "wealthy" version though? You own property outright ,live in it, enjoy it, and pass it on to your children, not the get rich quick ideal that has sucked in the little guys? The Tories want a controlled busts IMO but are not really interested in Joe Sheeple and his "portfolio" beyond the point where it causes problems for banks?

Possibly. Maybe. I hope so. Not sure though.

Well, actually we can be sure that there are lots of different people with lots of different views and interests in all 3 main parties. The question is if there is an "average tendency" of some sort.

But I still think that the vast majority of property owners, in all parties, and from all income/price levels, like to see their properties going up in value, or at least keeping its value. I think only a very small majority (in all parties, income and price levels) is enlightened enough to realise that lower property prices would be good for the country, and for their children. And then an even smaller minority would be ethical enough to DO something about it politically.

As for the lib Dem guy, if he is still trying to "exit" property he is just another sucker, more likely IMO that he wants to put the spotlight squarely on the bankers and not on the VI`s like him who milked the credit bubble at the expense of less sophisticated sheeple? His behaviour on Newsnight though, flustered, interrupting etc seemed to indicate that he couldn`t bear the truth of why the banks will let some of the "froth" disappear from the market. He seemed in denial, much like some Bulls on here?

Yes, I had the same impression. Like I wrote above, from his CV I thought he understood the problem, and was just spinning things in his favour. Total b@stard PR. But now I am no 100% sure. He almost convinced me there (NewsNight interview) that he is a moron, really. But I still think that, at some level, he must know it was a bubble. After all... come on! By now even my dog! knows that! (Just an expression, as as a tenant I am not allowed to have a dog. But that is another story.)

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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Possibly. Maybe. I hope so. Not sure though.

Well, actually we can be sure that there are lots of different people with lots of different views and interests in all 3 main parties. The question is if there is an "average tendency" of some sort.

But I still think that the vast majority of property owners, in all parties, and from all income/price levels, like to see their properties going up in value, or at least keeping its value. I think only a very small majority (in all parties, income and price levels) is enlightened enough to realise that lower property prices would be good for the country, and for their children. And then an even smaller minority would be ethical enough to DO something about it politically.

You are right of course, but I would argue that the ones making the big decisions now fit my category, they are concerned about property prices only as it affects banking interests and the stability of the country. If you own a mansion in the country and acres of land and know it will pass to your descendants, the price fluctuation is not really a concern? banks collapsing and sheeple rioting over land laws might be a concern? They all aim to say stuff that keeps sheeple believing that things are Ok, or will be Ok IMO. Anyone smart is long out of property they don`t need, anyone left, whether they be in politics or not is sheeple? and in this economic climate how much influence do they really have? The "average tendency" is always towards the things that benefit the movers and shakers, and for sheeple to be in debt and paying interest all their life benefits on a number of levels, but this system has broken down, and the "bankers are to blame" meme is a convenient one to keep sheeple focussed on while VI`s desperately work out what to do?

Edited by dances with sheeple

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You are right of course, but I would argue that the ones making the big decisions now fit my category, they are concerned about property prices only as it affects banking interests and the stability of the country. If you own a mansion in the country and acres of land and know it will pass to your descendants, the price fluctuation is not really a concern? banks collapsing and sheeple rioting over land laws might be a concern? They all aim to say stuff that keeps sheeple believing that things are Ok, or will be Ok IMO. Anyone smart is long out of property they don`t need, anyone left, whether they be in politics or not is sheeple? and in this economic climate how much influence do they really have? The "average tendency" is always towards the things that benefit the movers and shakers, for sheeple to be in debt and paying all their life benefits on a number of levels, but this system has broken down, and the "bankers are to blame" meme is a convenient one to keep sheeple focussed on while VI`s desperately work out what to do?

I know what you mean, and I hope you are right - that the "dominant classes" are wise enough to understand that, in the long term, their own self interest is aligned with the national interest, etc. That they can not kill or damage too much their "Golden Eggs Goose" - the country.

I am just not sure the political "system" is working well enough for that though, like LuckyOne mentioned before in this thread.

It is a problem of political-economy. Actually this whole bubble malarkey was a failure of political-economy. The system failed.

Actually, this Lord idiot is the current Treasury spokesperson! Talking cr@p on Newsnight!

The system is still not working well.

.

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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I know what you mean, and I hope you are right - that the "dominant classes" are wise enough to understand that, in the long term, their own self interest is aligned with the national interest, etc. That they can not kill or damage too much their "Golden Eggs Goose" - the country.

I am just not sure the political "system" is working well enough for that though, like LuckyOne mentioned before in this thread.

It is a problem of political-economy. Actually this whole bubble malarkey was a failure of political-economy. The system failed.

Actually, this Lord idiot is the current Treasury spokesperson! Talking cr@p on Newsnight!

The system is still not working well.

.

Even if I am right, and I could be way off the mark as you point out, they still have to tell the sheeple "Well the good news is that the bankers are alright, phew! :huh: had us all worried there (Ant and Dec "I`m just like you, really" face on at this point) but the bad news is that you are no longer a quarter millionaire, far from it in fact, better cancel the African holiday and get down to Tesco`s sheep features" , and they also have to work out new ways to rape the sheeple for interest, both thorny little dillemas for them IMO.

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Possibly. Maybe. I hope so. Not sure though.

Well, actually we can be sure that there are lots of different people with lots of different views and interests in all 3 main parties. The question is if there is an "average tendency" of some sort.

But I still think that the vast majority of property owners, in all parties, and from all income/price levels, like to see their properties going up in value, or at least keeping its value. I think only a very small majority (in all parties, income and price levels) is enlightened enough to realise that lower property prices would be good for the country, and for their children. And then an even smaller minority would be ethical enough to DO something about it politically.

Yes, I had the same impression. Like I wrote above, from his CV I thought he understood the problem, and was just spinning things in his favour. Total b@stard PR. But now I am no 100% sure. He almost convinced me there (NewsNight interview) that he is a moron, really. But I still think that, at some level, he must know it was a bubble. After all... come on! By now even my dog! knows that! (Just an expression, as as a tenant I am not allowed to have a dog. But that is another story.)

My take is that he was startled by the hedge fund guy starting to spell out reality plainly "The bank will not support FTBers to take on your debt for you, you are on your own if you borrowed too much for houses", maybe because he has positions he would still like to get out of at a price he can live with? maybe because he knows the sort of collapse that could come from panic might unseat the government of which he is a part? Who knows, I am however pretty sure he knows it was a bubble in all the detail in which this site knows it was a bubble, sheeple are dense about money usually, most VI`s are not, but as you say some acting skills come in handy when playing the "all in it together" card? I think he started out doing his little naughty bankers act, but panicked when the guy started to spell out the absurdity of wanting banks to be solvent so they can lend to insolvent sheeple. At this point he used the tactic much loved by LieBore politicians, he tried to drown out the bad noise(truth).

Edited by dances with sheeple

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My take is that he was startled by the hedge fund guy starting to spell out reality plainly "The bank will not support FTBers to take on your debt for you, you are on your own if you borrowed too much for houses", maybe because he has positions he would still like to get out of at a price he can live with? maybe because he knows the sort of collapse that could come from panic might unseat the government of which he is a part? Who knows, I am however pretty sure he knows it was a bubble in all the detail in which this site knows it was a bubble, sheeple are dense about money usually, most VI`s are not, but as you say some acting skills come in handy when playing the "all in it together" card? I think he started out doing his little naughty bankers act, but panicked when the guy started to spell out the absurdity of wanting banks to be solvent so they can lend to insolvent sheeple. At this point he used the tactic much loved by LieBore politicians, he tried to drown out the bad noise(truth).

Yes, I think you are right. It was probably a mix of knowledge, panic and wishful thinking. Humans have a great capacity of distort perceived reality to satisfy emotional needs such as hope/dreams, pride, etc.

The next few years will be very interesting.

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Yes, I think you are right. It was probably a mix of knowledge, panic and wishful thinking. Humans have a great capacity of distort perceived reality to satisfy emotional needs such as hope/dreams, pride, etc.

The next few years will be very interesting.

Still can`t believe this thread has not been moved :lol:

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Still can`t believe this thread has not been moved :lol:

But this Lord was arguing for more mortgages for FTBers. This topic is completely on "House prices and the economy".

Specifically he was asking for a higher LTV, both on the Daily Mail article and also on that NewsNight interview Dan has linked above.

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LibDem Lord Oakeshott is a property VI misleading b@stard.

( Journalists will find the info in this tread very useful. )

lordoakeshott.JPG

(...)

Besides, apparently he has an Oxford degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics (according to WikiPedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Oakeshott,_Baron_Oakeshott_of_Seagrove_Bay ).

Hence, his comment on that news article was not a "mistake", or ignorance. It was VI disguised as "concern for the poor FTBers"...

January 2010,

I am unable to understand this guy. Help needed here please.

Yesterday the Guardian reported this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jan/01/minister-end-housing-price-rollercoaster

Shapps's vision (((of home price "stability"))) might not sit comfortably with home-owners – or those who think the young should have the same opportunities to make money on property as the baby-boomers before them. But others were very supportive. Lord Oakeshott, a Lib Dem treasury spokesman, called high prices a "curse for the young. They transfer wealth from the young to the old and from the have-nots to the haves in society. We must end our unhealthy British obsession with owner occupation for all. We should make long-term renting, both fully commercial and in the social-housing sector, a flexible and accessible option as in Germany and Switzerland. There it is perfectly normal even for a well-off family to rent for many years, rather than buy."

Oakeshott said the only bank offering new buyers a good deal was the "bank of mum and dad" and said bank lending was failing them, having gone from "splurge to starvation".

:blink:

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  • 317 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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