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Benefits Fraud - Is Everybody At It?

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http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23908717-bbc-dj-lubna-qazi-to-be-sentenced-for-benefits-fraud.do

They really need to get a grip on this. Seeing as the ones that get to court are just the tip of the iceberg, then benefits fraud must be going on on a massive scale.

Proper deterrents are also needed.

"Qazi, began to claim carer's allowance after her husband had a stroke in 2002."

OK, she was probably in the wrong, I agree, but before people jump to conclusions, and be too harsh, people should know more details about the case.

Edit: I declare a personal bias here. My grandfather had a stroke, "lived" for about 10 years after that, and it was horrible, for himself, for my grandmother, and for the whole family. This affects my judgement in this case.

Edited by Tired of Waiting

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Members of our group for people with a Neurological disease, find it hard to get the level of benefits that they are entitled to. The problem we face is that the DWP and the private company ATOS (who do the examinations) cannot adeqately assess the disability level of the claiment. They don't use reliable or reputable methods.

We find that our members need to go to Tribunel (which they often win) and this takes years of fighting. Some members are facing Ttribunel after Tribunel as the judgements are set aside when the committee doesn't follow the guidence or methods that they should. I've been an advocate for severely disabled people at these. The whole thing is an expensive, complicated mess and public funds are being wasted. It's also taking a toll on our members with increeased ill health and sometimes suicide as a result.

A family faced with a serious sudden illness or a breadwinner who has an accident can become desperate given the current system. We pay into a system that should help us when we need it, but based on the experience of our group it's just not happening in all cases. I don't support benefit fraud but I do look closely at all reported cases in the press and wonder why sometimes we don't get the full story.

Edited by Flopsy

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http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23908717-bbc-dj-lubna-qazi-to-be-sentenced-for-benefits-fraud.do

They really need to get a grip on this. Seeing as the ones that get to court are just the tip of the iceberg, then benefits fraud must be going on on a massive scale.

Proper deterrents are also needed.

Estimated cost of benefit fraud : 3 - 5 billion

Estimated cost of tax evasion, money laundering, lax tax regulations : 150billion, could be as much as twice that...

still, keep attacking those straw men, that's where they like you to keep your gaze.....

Edited by kenny dalglish

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It is all the same shit. Just different people doing it. Why do so many have to take 'sides' on this sort of stuff ?! Truly baffles me.

I hate those at the top who sponge and steal and I hate those at the bottom who sponge and steal. And everyone else in between for that matter.

Why do I have to choose one or the other....

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Not to mention the billions of pounds the government saves by failing to pay benefits that people are entitled to or charging them too much tax, either through incompetence or because the tax and benefit system is so complex that people don't realise what they are due. Its swings and rounabouts but we only hear about one side of it.

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The biggest problem facing the traumatic and severely disabled is that although they can be seeing a consultant who has a full comprehension of their situation one day the next they are attempting to explain it to a clinician who may have little or no knowledge of their condition. Added to the that the DWP seem to have instructed ATOS to start out judging everyone fit. One question that they ask is can you sit and watch TV, is the answer is yes then the assumption is that the claimant will be suitable for a desk job. I know of a case were the claimant had been instructed by Jobcentre plus that as they were wheelchair bound and that all further interviews could be completed at home. When ATOS were requested to interview them they ignored this despite being informed that they were in a wheelchair. The claimant then got their own GP to write to ATOS to confirm that they were wheelchair bound which again was ignored, finally in desperation he attempted to attend their examination centre only to be refused the booked interview and told that he constituted a fire hazard and that he should have made them aware of his disability ! ATOS were subsequently force to settle a claim against them.

One of the difficulties is faced is that the various agencies don't seem to communicate effectively. One case that comes to mind is of the elderly lady who was registered for housing benefits in three different parts of the country. When this finally came to light nothing was done as she suffered dementia and had as it were not intended to over claim, subsequently it was found that the homes were owned as it were by "family". :blink:

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Estimated cost of benefit fraud : 3 - 5 billion

Estimated cost of tax evasion, money laundering, lax tax regulations : 150billion, could be as much as twice that...

still, keep attacking those straw men, that's where they like you to keep your gaze.....

I worked at the DWP for three mind numbing years and two of those were working in the area of benefit fraud. It is such a massive problem that they only have the resources to investigate 2% of all very good leads (either from the public (about 2000 leads a week) or using their system that back ends onto the Inland Revenue that flags anyone is earning interest on savings (even if it is pennies on thousands earnt as the system ties in the interest rate to the probable balance)). Of those 2% around 1 in 4 may lead to court and then it's 50/50 whether or not the DWP gets a succesful outcome. The majority of the people who work in the DWP are nice but dim and not very productive, busy fools with very little output.

So a benefit cheat has a 99.75% chance of beating the system. Tell me do you feel lucky punk!!!!

Edited by tomposh101

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I worked at the DWP for three mind numbing years and two of those were working in the area of benefit fraud. It is such a massive problem that they only have the resources to investigate 2% of all very good leads (either from the public (about 2000 leads a week) or using their system that back ends onto the Inland Revenue that flags anyone is earning interest on savings (even if it is pennies on thousands earnt as the system ties in the interest rate to the probable balance)). Of those 2% around 1 in 4 may lead to court and then it's 50/50 whether or not the DWP gets a succesful outcome. The majority of the people who work in the DWP are nice but dim and not very productive, busy fools with very little output.

So a benefit cheat has a 99.75% chance of beating the system. Tell me do you feel lucky punk!!!!

+1

As has been mention on this thread if there was one agency that handle our interactions with the state then these difficulties could removed. It could also handle land transactions so eliminating CGT fraud. Then the staff that are chasing their tails chasing individual could target commercial tax fraud. Some tax/benefits legislation often seems to have been write almost accepting that its going to be ineffective and that in itself is a waste.

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It is all the same shit. Just different people doing it. Why do so many have to take 'sides' on this sort of stuff ?! Truly baffles me.

I hate those at the top who sponge and steal and I hate those at the bottom who sponge and steal. And everyone else in between for that matter.

Why do I have to choose one or the other....

Agreed, but just do a random trawl of these boards. The ire is not meted out propoprtionally. By my back of fag-pack calculations there should be 1 "benefits/dolie scroungers/cheats" for every 20 relating to tax fraud, laundering etc. but In fact they are the other way around. Thus proving that the rich/elite's age-old tactic of divide and conquer is alive and well.

It was ever thus.....

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Agreed, but just do a random trawl of these boards. The ire is not meted out propoprtionally. By my back of fag-pack calculations there should be 1 "benefits/dolie scroungers/cheats" for every 20 relating to tax fraud, laundering etc. but In fact they are the other way around. Thus proving that the rich/elite's age-old tactic of divide and conquer is alive and well.

It was ever thus.....

Just to be precise, not paying tax is not stealing. Taking stuff without paying for it is. Now if you take stuff funded by tax and don't pay the tax, then you've done some stealing.

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Agreed, but just do a random trawl of these boards. The ire is not meted out propoprtionally. By my back of fag-pack calculations there should be 1 "benefits/dolie scroungers/cheats" for every 20 relating to tax fraud, laundering etc. but In fact they are the other way around. Thus proving that the rich/elite's age-old tactic of divide and conquer is alive and well.

It was ever thus.....

Dup

Edited by ccc

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Agreed, but just do a random trawl of these boards. The ire is not meted out propoprtionally. By my back of fag-pack calculations there should be 1 "benefits/dolie scroungers/cheats" for every 20 relating to tax fraud, laundering etc. but In fact they are the other way around. Thus proving that the rich/elite's age-old tactic of divide and conquer is alive and well.

It was ever thus.....

Dup - how very strange.

Edited by ccc

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Agreed, but just do a random trawl of these boards. The ire is not meted out propoprtionally. By my back of fag-pack calculations there should be 1 "benefits/dolie scroungers/cheats" for every 20 relating to tax fraud, laundering etc. but In fact they are the other way around. Thus proving that the rich/elite's age-old tactic of divide and conquer is alive and well.

It was ever thus.....

Dup post

Edited by ccc

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Agreed, but just do a random trawl of these boards. The ire is not meted out propoprtionally. By my back of fag-pack calculations there should be 1 "benefits/dolie scroungers/cheats" for every 20 relating to tax fraud, laundering etc. but In fact they are the other way around. Thus proving that the rich/elite's age-old tactic of divide and conquer is alive and well.

It was ever thus.....

Maybe - but not sure. The rich bankers/politicians/royalty/landowners don't exactly get an easy ride on HPC !!

I am quite happy with abuse handed out to scroungers. Whether they wear a Cravat or smoke Dorchesters is neither here nor there to me.

Edited by ccc

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Just to be precise, not paying tax is not stealing. Taking stuff without paying for it is. Now if you take stuff funded by tax and don't pay the tax, then you've done some stealing.

There is a difference in tax avoidance and tax evasion in both a moral and legal sense...

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Other week I cleared somebodies drive of snow for a fiver, I can legally earn that on top of my benefits, anything more would result in a deduction. I did not declare it I thought it would be a waste of time and government money.

I committed benefit fraud. If I didn't public spending would have gone up. ph34r.gif

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...lots of people steal, stealing is taking something that you do not have a right to or haven't paid for...all sorts of people do it, from the very poor to the very rich....from the very young to the very old.

Only today I was buying some bird seed price of which was very small, I put the packet on the counter whilst I was looking at something else and waiting to pay and a man who had just bought dog biscuits in front of me proceeded to place the bird seed into his large shopping basket with the dog biscuits he had already paid for while the shopkeeper was involved in another transaction...I said hey! nice try...where there is an easy opportunity given to them some people will always try it on. ;)

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Don't forget it's entirely lawful for two people to claim carer's benefit for looking after each other!

The system is broken. The genuinely in need don't get, while the spivs get away with billions.

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...lots of people steal, stealing is taking something that you do not have a right to or haven't paid for...all sorts of people do it, from the very poor to the very rich....from the very young to the very old.

Only today I was buying some bird seed price of which was very small, I put the packet on the counter whilst I was looking at something else and waiting to pay and a man who had just bought dog biscuits in front of me proceeded to place the bird seed into his large shopping basket with the dog biscuits he had already paid for while the shopkeeper was involved in another transaction...I said hey! nice try...where there is an easy opportunity given to them some people will always try it on. ;)

I was in tescopoly yesterday and the cashier weighed my 'finest' £4.49p/kg hand picked loose vine tomatoes on the ordinary tomato price scale so 11p and not 70p there or thereabouts. Can't say I piped up.

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I was in tescopoly yesterday and the cashier weighed my 'finest' £4.49p/kg hand picked loose vine tomatoes on the ordinary tomato price scale so 11p and not 70p there or thereabouts. Can't say I piped up.

I would not condone it, but there is a little saying....'Let he without sin cast the first stone'. ;)

Edited by winkie

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Just to be precise, not paying tax is not stealing.

If the law requires it to be paid then it is theft.

'Fraud: Tax evasion and money laundering … the new favourites':

http://www.insidetime.org/articleview.asp?a=763&c=fraud_tax_evasion_and_money_laundering_%85_the_new_favourites

Where deliberately incorrect accounts are submitted, the Crown may also charge false accounting under s17 of the Theft Act 1968.

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  • 285 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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