Hpc Not Happening Because Briton's Cannot Hand The Keys Back?

[Bloo Loo]

Depends how much gold you have. If it's in tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds, then it's relevant.

most people didnt have enough in the bank to even NEED the 35K FSCS guarantee.

most people dont even HAVE a pension fund.

so for MOST people, the very idea of a bag of gold is irrelevant.

and as the housing market relies on 50,000 Families a month doing a transaction, Id say the gold price is pretty much irrelevant, and therefore has little to do with the reason £ prices have sucker rallied.

[winkie]

most people didnt have enough in the bank to even NEED the 35K FSCS guarantee.

most people dont even HAVE a pension fund.

so for MOST people, the very idea of a bag of gold is irrelevant.

and as the housing market relies on 50,000 Families a month doing a transaction, Id say the gold price is pretty much irrelevant, and therefore has little to do with the reason £ prices have sucker rallied.

That will be going up to equivalent of 100k euros shortly....things must be looking up.

Gold means nothing to most people the same as stocks and shares do......anyone with gold might have to cash it in to use it...when it is consumed it is consumed, it can only buy time nothing else.

[Bloo Loo]

That will be going up to equivalent of 100k euros shortly....things must be looking up.

Gold means nothing to most people the same as stocks and shares do......anyone with gold might have to cash it in to use it...when it is consumed it is consumed, it can only buy time nothing else.

thats right, but I used the 35K ( and that wasnt 100%) as the last time people might have actually needed it, that was the limit...they raised it to 50K and the percentage of depositors that needed it was vanishingly small...something like 1% IIRC.

[Georgia O'Keeffe]

thats right, but I used the 35K ( and that wasnt 100%) as the last time people might have actually needed it, that was the limit...they raised it to 50K and the percentage of depositors that needed it was vanishingly small...something like 1% IIRC.

but the 1% probably included 600 MPs or however many there are now and a few hundred Lords. At least this time those important people asleep enough not to heed the warnings in 06/7 should be repositioned enough through asset purchases and switching from high street to more solid private banks that they will let the banks fall in the next reality checkat least for personal accounts and pensions, im still undecided how they will deal with business accounts.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Tamara De Lempicka

[frenchy]

how true, my soveriegn has doubled since I bought it...the house I am going to buy is sooooo much cheaper now...thanks to the small quarter ounce of gold....and I have more soveriegn than most people who are buying houses.

very relevent.

if it is so much cheaper now then buy it.

it remains irrelevant, you need to stop being selfish and think about the millions who would like to have a place to live in but neither have bought gold or foreign currencies.

in fact gold is probably the most irrelevant of all, we will see who will have the final laugh... a word of caution, my mum bought gold during the last major french housing crash, as it was soaring (just like it is today) as everything else was in a bubble. it took 17yrs for her to get her money back. do you see any similarity or is it different this time?

[frenchy]

I had converted >100k GBP to EUR at 1.54. and converted it back to GBP at c.1.02

you wish you did, but you didn't. Not at the rates you mention, I have the past 5 years of daily exchange rate on my screen and you didn't. I also doubt you ever had 100k of savings in the first place. but wishing is a good thing, keep at it and all the best!

see my response to Bloo Loo, stop being selfish and think about the general public. if you are not interested in general public, I feel sorry for you.

[twatmangle]

you wish you did, but you didn't. Not at the rates you mention, I have the past 5 years of daily exchange rate on my screen and you didn't. I also doubt you ever had 100k of savings in the first place. but wishing is a good thing, keep at it and all the best!

see my response to Bloo Loo, stop being selfish and think about the general public. if you are not interested in general public, I feel sorry for you.

I'm not being selfish at all. I'm just stating the fact that it is entirely relevant that the pound has fallen in value. Not only do individuals benefit, but this probably also maintains prices in desirable areas.

It's like saying the National Lottery is irrelevant because you've never won the jackpot, or you've never received a lottery grant.

(It's unfortunate you're calling me a liar, it's one of the downsides of the internet that you can do things you wouldn't normally do face-to-face. PM me your email address and I can give you more details if you want.)

[ken_ichikawa]

No, it's worse than that: your employer paid 12% (I think?) 'national insurance' on top of that 100 pounds, so you're actually working for the government more than half of the time you're at work.

12.8% btw, going up to 13.8% from April.

Employees NIC is also going up from 11% to 12%. With the 1% UEL going up to 2%.

AS well as reduction of tax bands

[frenchy]

12.8% btw, going up to 13.8% from April.

Employees NIC is also going up from 11% to 12%. With the 1% UEL going up to 2%.

AS well as reduction of tax bands

it is a bit scary isn't it? although I only have 2 employees, I still have to pay Ers NIC and I seem to remember (but will have to look it up) that it was only 10% when I started my company in 2001, now it is close to 13%. This is in a way a stealth tax as far as the employee is concerned as Ers NIC is not always apparent. From 2005 to 2007 the payslips I was issuing no longer showed the Ers NIC only the Ees NIC. I have since sourced blank payslips from a different supplier and they now show Ers NIC again.

Just realize that France Ers NIC is around 65% and Ees NIC is of the order of 25%. Employers NIC are not shown at all on payslips, which in turn causes people to believe that they are ripped off by their employer because they don't earn much when in fact each employee cost twice its salary to a French employer, when it "only cost a British employer 1.25x employee's salary.

UK NIC is on a dangerous trend, increasing Ers NIC is almost invisible to the public but the consequence will eventually be the same as in France, it will be too expensive to employ people...

[tim123]

I reckon prices aren't sitting at their old level - they are seriously down, but you can't discover this until sellers are forced to discover it on their own. UK price indexes are mostly worthless, and there are serious bargains to be had. Depends on your flexibility, I suppose - are you flexible enough to buy for peanuts in certain parts of Florida/California/Ireland/Spain?

So where are these places that you can buy for peanuts in Ireland?

Even after the crash it is rare to find a liveable property for under 200k. And when you have to buy with a currency that has depreciated by 30%, even 50% off the old, silly, Irish prices is not a bargain in pound terms.

tim

[Mr Yogi]

In addition if you are in negative equity (or can make the figures on a quick sale appear so) you can go bankrupt, keep the house and buy back the beneficial interest for a relatively small sum. Of course you have to keep paying the mortgage and remortgaging would be difficult - but you would get rid of the other higher rate debts no need to hand back the keys.

Quite so. It's happening all the time; run up the credit card debts to the max while paying the mortgage on time every month and making the minimum payments on the cards and 'the system' thinks you are an ideal mug punter.

Then without warning go bankrupt. The mortgage holder is delighted for you to remain in the house and to carry on with the mortgage, the OR has no claim on the house because there is no equity, and the CC companies lose the lot.

I know three people who have done exactly this - they now feel that they are set up for life. You won't read their stories in the media though, as it might encourage people...

Edited December 19, 2010 by Mr Yogi

[miko]

12.8% btw, going up to 13.8% from April.

Employees NIC is also going up from 11% to 12%. With the 1% UEL going up to 2%.

AS well as reduction of tax bands

That is all part of the MAKEING WORK PAY policy.

They say they want to make work pay so give a bigger tax free allowance then snatch it back in higher NI. What baffles me is the NI increases always slip through with such little being said , when it is no different than an income tax rise. Actually it is worse as NI is paid from the first £ of earnings .

When I left school in 1979 NI was 6.75% !!!

Edited December 19, 2010 by miko

[Bloo Loo]

if it is so much cheaper now then buy it.

it remains irrelevant, you need to stop being selfish and think about the millions who would like to have a place to live in but neither have bought gold or foreign currencies.

in fact gold is probably the most irrelevant of all, we will see who will have the final laugh... a word of caution, my mum bought gold during the last major french housing crash, as it was soaring (just like it is today) as everything else was in a bubble. it took 17yrs for her to get her money back. do you see any similarity or is it different this time?

I guess you missed the true meaning of my post...note the use of the SINGULAR...my SOVEREIGN......houses cost a lot more than a single SOV...currently street price £240.00

[twatmangle]

I guess you missed the true meaning of my post...note the use of the SINGULAR...my SOVEREIGN......houses cost a lot more than a single SOV...currently street price £240.00

We need Eric-style [sarcasm] tags to avoid confusion.

[Bloo Loo]

We need Eric-style [sarcasm] tags to avoid confusion.

yeah..that would be a twin headed smiley in red...

[Johnny Storm]

Actually it is worse as NI is paid from the first £ of earnings .

No its not. Neither Employers or Employees NI is paid till income exceeds £5715 PA and only on the amount over that limit.

[miko]

No its not. Neither Employers or Employees NI is paid till income exceeds £5715 PA and only on the amount over that limit.

No once you hit that amount it is then charged back form the first £

[miko]

Yes sorry you are correct

You pay it from £110 up to £844 a week so the increase from 11% ot 12% is only on earnings above £110 , well for most it will more than wipe out the increased tax free allowance.

[LuckyOne]

o/t I know,but there are only 20 non recourse states in the US.Although they contain some of the biggest real estate markets,there are some notable exceptions eg Michigan,Illinois,New York.Even in some of them(as per below),judicial foreclosure is an option.

http://www.mortgagereliefformula.com/recourse/

'These are all the mortgage walkaway trustee sale states, meaning they are non-judicial foreclosure states.

In those states, generally, when they foreclose on you, they cannot pursue you for their financial losses.

Many, such as California, do in theory allow a lender to choose judicial foreclosure but in those cases the lenders only do so if a borrower has significant other assets. This is the "one action" rule that lets the lender either pursue non-judicial foreclosure, at lower cost and less time, or judicial foreclosure that costs more money and takes more time but lets them go after you for their financial losses.

Alaska

Arizona

Arkansas

California

Colorado

District of Columbia (Washington DC)

Georgia

Hawaii

Idaho

Mississippi

Missouri

Montana (as long as non-judicial foreclosure is used)

Nevada - note that the lender CAN get a deficiency judgment (See below)

New Hampshire

Oregon

Tennessee

Texas (but even in a non-judicial foreclosure, the lender can pursue a deficiency judgment)

Virginia

Washington

West Virginia

These are states that also allow non-judicial foreclosure, and/or where non-judicial foreclosure is more common and deficiency judgments can be obtained more easily:

Michigan

Minnesota

North Carolina

Rhode Island

South Dakota

Utah

Wyoming '

This is completely on topic as many on this site assume that Americans can walk away from their mortgages without any consequences while Britons are stuck with a millstone around their necks for life.

From what I understand, HELOCs (the primary MEW vehicle) are always full recourse loans and outside the recourse / non-recourse debate. In addition, any modified loans are also full recourse loans.

People who have MEWed or have got into trouble and modified their loans are exposed to full recourse no matter where they live. As these two groups are those most likely to be in trouble in the US, the net effect is that they majority of troubled loans in the US are full recourse loans.

Jingle mail with no recourse / negative implications in the US is simply a myth that needs to be dispelled. For the vast majority of troubled borrowers in the US and the UK, the costs of returning your house in negative equity to the lender are very similar.

[exiges]

Has anyone mentioned yet how nearly a quarter of a million houses that would otherwise have hit the market are being bailed out by SMI ?

Without, I'm sure the HPC would be more advanced.

[frugalboy]

This is completely on topic as many on this site assume that Americans can walk away from their mortgages without any consequences while Britons are stuck with a millstone around their necks for life.

From what I understand, HELOCs (the primary MEW vehicle) are always full recourse loans and outside the recourse / non-recourse debate. In addition, any modified loans are also full recourse loans.

People who have MEWed or have got into trouble and modified their loans are exposed to full recourse no matter where they live. As these two groups are those most likely to be in trouble in the US, the net effect is that they majority of troubled loans in the US are full recourse loans.

Jingle mail with no recourse / negative implications in the US is simply a myth that needs to be dispelled. For the vast majority of troubled borrowers in the US and the UK, the costs of returning your house in negative equity to the lender are very similar.

However Florida, which has seen some of the steepest falls, is a recourse state. Maybe the sheer scale of the foreclosure mess means people think the banks won't bother going after them (go after them for what? - they're all broke). This could happen in the UK, but people are still able to pay their mortgages thanks to the taxpayer. If Obama's modification plan had the money and the guns (pointed at the heads of BofA and Citi) to back up its promises maybe the US would have been able to achieve the same temporary reprieve?

[frugalboy]

Very on-topic, here's an MSNBC article from today on Americans' changing attitudes to strategic default. Doesn't mention the recourse/non-recourse issue though, so poorly written. See the readers' votes at the bottom (you have to vote to see the result) - more than 75% of readers would walk away if in NE!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40704053/ns/business-real_estate