Will Enforced Austerity Solve Anything?

[pandora's box]

[quote name='silver panda' timestamp='1292793451' post='2828294'

And I already know about moral hazard as I live within my means and work in manufacturing. Its about time the public sector learnt a little about it. Unfortunately the bankers got away from it because Gordon Brown bailed them out without conditions.

How has living within your means and working in manufacturing helped with your understanding of moral hazard?

[tallguy]

And how does our personal and corporate debt of now confirm to those of other eras?

And what has all the debt we've added in the last decade achieved but unaffordable housing and imported consumer tat.

The big increases in the past were used to beat Napoleon, Prussian militarisma and Hitler.

And are you expecting the rapid economic growth and technological progress of the Victorian era and post WWII period?

And I already know about moral hazard as I live within my means and work in manufacturing. Its about time the public sector learnt a little about it. Unfortunately the bankers got away from it because Gordon Brown bailed them out without conditions.

"We" didn't add the debt. The entire system is built on debt. It's called usury and forms the basis of our entire global-banking-system. The debt was added by the masters of the universe otherwise known as the global commercial-banking cartel and the debt will now be witheld by them as we, the people, have been milked dry. We have no more productive value to extract. We have turned from being an asset to a liability.

We are redundant.

The capital will be heading East from now on. Meanwhile, the means by which our populations here in the West and North have hitherto been controlled and managed for the last several decades (debt) will now be replaced with a more overt and less subtle form of "management".

Edited December 19, 2010 by tallguy

[tallguy]

actually nobody penalises anyone except those who recieved the benefit of the excesses of the boom.

the BOOM was the bad times. leading to increased expectations and borrowing...too many beleived they are ENTITLED to a certain lifestyle.

Austerity should just be a return to normal spending with some savings to repay for the past.

BUT, it usually means the weakest in society get it in the breadbasket.

yes

[Si1]

The Germans seem to have worked out how to reconcile these two competing goals. The UK has lost sight of the fact that we need to make things to survive in the long run and that we cannot prosper by simply looking after those who do not make things.

...specifically, that depends on where you draw the limits of the german state - is it the borders of Germany, or the borders of the Eurozone?

[LuckyOne]

...specifically, that depends on where you draw the limits of the german state - is it the borders of Germany, or the borders of the Eurozone?

Definitely the borders of Germany.

I do accept that they have enjoyed a weak Euro relative to where the D Mark might have been. They face a tricky balancing act to keep an internally weak Euro going without paying for it by supporting the periphary or becoming like the Swiss or the Japanese who face the massive challenges of an externally powerful currency.

[pandora's box]

We, the people, have been milked dry. We have no more productive value to extract. We have turned from being an asset to a liability.

We are redundant.

For God's sake, are you a man or a mouse? Get ready to fight.

Not for King, or Queen or country.

It's us, the people, against the power elite. Which side are you on?

[LuckyOne]

For God's sake, are you a man or a mouse? Get ready to fight.

Not for King, or Queen or country.

It's us, the people, against the power elite. Which side are you on?

An interesting question. Who do you think that the power elite might be?

[dubsie]

For God's sake, are you a man or a mouse? Get ready to fight.

Not for King, or Queen or country.

It's us, the people, against the power elite. Which side are you on?

so true, we either fight or lose everything. In ten years when we start to feel the true impact of this governments cuts I will be telling you all I told you so.

This government has no right to govern, they didn't win an election instead they purchased the support of power craved lib dems.

[wonderpup]

The capital will be heading East from now on. Meanwhile, the means by which our populations here in the West and North have hitherto been controlled and managed for the last several decades (debt) will now be replaced with a more overt and less subtle form of "management".

Yes- and 'Austerity' is simply code for the process of squeezing the last drop from the spent western populations before this shift occurs.

Interesting to see the urgency with which western bankers urge the Chinese to hurry up and 'reform' their society- which seems to involve creating exactly the kinds of social support systems that are now being defined as impossible to maintain in the west.

Does this represent a touching concern on the part of western banksters for the well being of the Chinese people.?

No- it represents the realisation that without a social safety net you can't have a 'consumer' who will be prepared to buy the debt products of the western banks.

[gf3]

An interesting question. Who do you think that the power elite might be?

some one with over 10,000 credits?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4f/Elite_The_Dark_Wheel_Novella.jpg/220px-Elite_The_Dark_Wheel_Novella.jpg

[gf3]

An interesting question. Who do you think that the power elite might be?

some one with over 10,000 credits?

Edited December 19, 2010 by gf3

[billybong]

so true, we either fight or lose everything. In ten years when we start to feel the true impact of this governments cuts I will be telling you all I told you so.

This government has no right to govern, they didn't win an election instead they purchased the support of power craved lib dems.

And so soon they've reneged on their manifesto promises on student funding etc and betrayed their voters and accordingly relinquished their right to govern.

Go now crooks but for goodness sake not to be replaced by Labour.

Edited December 19, 2010 by billybong

[pandora's box]

An interesting question. Who do you think that the power elite might be?

Those who formulate policy on a global scale.

[silver panda]

How has living within your means and working in manufacturing helped with your understanding of moral hazard?

Because I've seen what happens to crap workers and crap businesses.

The lose their jobs and go bankrupt.

Unfortunately bankers and the public sector haven't had that experience.

[silver panda]

so true, we either fight or lose everything. In ten years when we start to feel the true impact of this governments cuts I will be telling you all I told you so.

This government has no right to govern, they didn't win an election instead they purchased the support of power craved lib dems.

Who in your opinion does have the right to govern then?

[pandora's box]

Q: How has living within your means and working in manufacturing helped with your understanding of moral hazard?

A: Because I've seen what happens to crap workers and crap businesses.

They lose their jobs and go bankrupt.

That isn't moral hazard, that's a free market economy.

[tallguy]

For God's sake, are you a man or a mouse? Get ready to fight.

Not for King, or Queen or country.

It's us, the people, against the power elite. Which side are you on?

I am a man and, given that I am an urban-landless-fiat-wage-slave who knows well enough that his only strength is to be found in brotherhood with his fellow slaves, I also know well enough which side I am on.

Edited December 20, 2010 by tallguy

[tallguy]

Yes- and 'Austerity' is simply code for the process of squeezing the last drop from the spent western populations before this shift occurs.

Interesting to see the urgency with which western bankers urge the Chinese to hurry up and 'reform' their society- which seems to involve creating exactly the kinds of social support systems that are now being defined as impossible to maintain in the west.

Does this represent a touching concern on the part of western banksters for the well being of the Chinese people.?

No- it represents the realisation that without a social safety net you can't have a 'consumer' who will be prepared to buy the debt products of the western banks.

exactly

[pandora's box]

I am a man and, given that I am an urban-landless-fiat-wage-slave who knows well enough that his only strength is to be found in brotherhood with his fellow slaves, I also know well enough which side I am on.

Well that's a start I suppose. But surely you are aware that this war is being fought via written communication as well as on the ground?

Defeatist tones such as yours are detrimental to the cause.

Edited December 20, 2010 by pandora's box

[tallguy]

Well that's a start I suppose. But surely you are aware that this war is being fought via written communication as well as on the ground?

Defeatist tones such as yours are detrimental to the cause.

.

Edited December 20, 2010 by tallguy

[pandora's box]

Which side are you on?

Don't talk to me about the unions: Labour lap dogs.

I may allow them to join the cause; with their tails between their legs.

[tallguy]

Don't talk to me about the unions: Labour lap dogs.

I may allow them to join the cause; with their tails between their legs.

Who the feck is this royal "I"...

Are you some kind of delusional, self-proclaimed army of one?

Edited December 20, 2010 by tallguy

[pandora's box]

You don't defeat the devil until you know his name.

Its name is known, but we barely dare utter it: the banking system. There, I said it.

After we have brought the banking system down, we can move on.

It will not be painless - and I have more to lose than most. But what has to be done has to be done.

[pandora's box]

Who the feck is this royal "I"...

Are you some kind of delusional, self-proclaimed army of one?

I'm no more delusional than you or anyone else here.

[Authoritarian]

In what way did Thatcher fail? I remember things being a lot better under her, and her winning 3 elections in a row.

The policies at the time inspired people to work hard and be self sufficient. Today we have policies inspiring people not to bother and be dependent on the work of others.

Sorry but what this should really mean is low taxes, where I spend my money on what I want. Those that dont work dont have any money to spend. Sounds fair to me.

New Labour also won three elections in a row, so I wouldn't claim this as a benchmark for success.

Thatcher's policies only worked while she was busy selling off national assets on the cheap, this was great for those that were able to cash in on the boon, but the shelf life of such a policy is limited as the family silver is a finite resource.

She basically bribed the nation into voting for her, and it worked a treat.