To All The Show Off's With 4X4's In The Snow

[pl1]

Clearly jealous. No need to lug litres of cooking oil around - there are outlets of recycled oil all over the country. And if you can't find one, simply put diesel in - a tank of diesel doesn't matter now and again... though the engine is cleaner with the chip oil. sometimes my car smells of chips, sometimes of fish - both smells are more wholesome than the niff of diesel.

I am not jealous of your cooking oil marvel

[Gone baby gone]

I have to say, as someone who was in Sweden only last week, that is down to driver training/ability and tyres. Nothing much to do with the actual car, as the taxi drivers in their RWD beemers and merc were coping just fine.

Yep, I've spent a few winters working in southern Germany and Norway and can confirm that 4x4 isn't really going to help much on snow and ice.

What you do want is winter tyres and/or snow chains or "auto socks" for deep snow + the right mental state and driving technique.

I watched someone in a Land Rover Discovery have an accident this morning - powering around a corner, making great progress right up until all four wheels hit the 2 inches of snow that were lying on sheet ice. I couldn't help but snigger - once I'd checked he was ok - as he'd managed to spin the car 270 degrees and creased the passenger side door quite badly, not to mention the damage to the traffic lights he bounced off.

4 wheel drive helps you pick up speed where grip is at a premium, but it doesn't help you slow down or corner... so we now have roads full of over-heavy vehicles on summer tyres that can get up to speed faster that everybody else, but can't stop any better.

How useful.

[blobloblob]

I've heard that tyres with 'directional' V-shaped treads tend to be better in snow - certainly my car, which has them, seems to be better than the wife's, which doesn't.

Yes I had those tyres with the v-shaped treads but they just sat on top the snow, rather like a plastic sledge does.

[DeepLurker]

...

What you do want is winter tyres and/or snow chains or "auto socks" for deep snow + the right mental state and driving technique.

...

Incidentally, has anyone here tried auto socks? Are they any good? They look almost too good to be true (small, lightweight, and very easy to put on).

[Toto deVeer]

Jealous?

[DeepLurker]

CCC's writing a book about them:

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=155383

Cheers!

He certainly sounds like a very happy customer!

[Gone baby gone]

Incidentally, has anyone here tried auto socks? Are they any good? They look almost too good to be true (small, lightweight, and very easy to put on).

Yes, I've used them a couple of times over the last month "in anger". Had them on today, to get to the main roads. They work a treat - as advertised - perfect to stick in the boot as an emergency measure. The only downside is that like chains you are limited (to 30mph in this case) and you need to take them off when the road is clear. They fold flat and store neatly where the spare tyre goes on my car.

Winter tyres for general use with a pair of auto socks in the boot for deep / fresh snow and you'll have no problem tackling roads that would be impassible in a Range Rover / X5 on summer tyres.

[winkie]

Yes, I've used them a couple of times over the last month "in anger". Had them on today, to get to the main roads. They work a treat - as advertised - perfect to stick in the boot as an emergency measure. The only downside is that like chains you are limited (to 30mph in this case) and you need to take them off when the road is clear. They fold flat and store neatly where the spare tyre goes on my car.

Winter tyres for general use with a pair of auto socks in the boot for deep / fresh snow and you'll have no problem tackling roads that would be impassible in a Range Rover / X5 on summer tyres.

Interesting....how easy are they to put on when you need them, if you know what I mean.

[southmartin]

Mitsu L200. Nuff said.

Far cheaper, better built and more practical than a Range Rover.

Avoid Nissan Navaras, the engines tend to self destruct like clockwork at 60K.

I don't doubt that the L200 is technically a good car, but my god the interior is made from the world's cheapest plastics and stuck together with blue-tac and sellotape! - It's not just the MIts though, all pan-asian cars seem to have awful interiors - I just can't bear to sit in them and hear all the squeaks and rattles from ill-fitting panels as you trundle along.

I'm used to Audi interior quality, and so going from a car that remains 'tight as a drum' way past 100k, into something that feels like the inside was built at the Early Learning Centre is just not going to happen. As far as i'm concerned the X5 is a stupid vehicle (don't even make off road tyres for it) ditto the Q7. Volvo XC70 is pretty capable, but again let down internally (and has serious 'mum-bus' issues). The Discovery3 is ok (bit cheap inside still on pre 09 models) - disco4 is a lot nicer. But the only car that's drives well off road AND feels premium on the inside is the Rangy...

[Gone baby gone]

Interesting....how easy are they to put on when you need them, if you know what I mean.

Fairly easy - much easier than chains I've used in the past. They come supplied with a pair of disposable gloves, and the only problem you might have is on sporty cars with limited space between wheel and wheel arch (you need to get your hands in there to pull the "sock" around the tyre.

After doing it once to practice, I can put them on in around 4-5 mins and remove them in 2. For £55 it's well worth it IMO.

[kraft]

I have to say my Swedish car is absolute sh it in the snow.

It's the tyres not the car that makes the biggest difference in snow.

[worzel]

LPG is half that. Walking is cheaper I suppose, but a pain in snow. Horses are best though.

For the horse lovers. Very funny vid.

[Byron]

My Astra Estate has been brilliant in the snow. Front wheel drive and traction control.

I live in a hilly district, but just point it, feed in the power and away she goes.

[worzel]

I have a 4wd Audi a6. Big wide wheels. Despite this it seems to be able to get up any hill with snow and ice on, getting down is an altogether more scary prospect and the handling is more akin to a sledge. With a set of winter wheels and tyres I think it could get pretty much anywhere assuming clearance wasn't an issue.

[blobloblob]

I thinks theres something about Lexus drivers, coming off the M11 into Stortford and this Lexus 4x4 was crawling along at 15mph holding everyone up! He didnt even indicate when he turned off nearly causing another accident.

Hey my car's a Lexus!! (albeit an entry-level one) At least I'm not enough of a tw&t to drive it in snow. You're right about indicators though. They're just for the working class!

[ccc]

Fairly easy - much easier than chains I've used in the past. They come supplied with a pair of disposable gloves, and the only problem you might have is on sporty cars with limited space between wheel and wheel arch (you need to get your hands in there to pull the "sock" around the tyre.

After doing it once to practice, I can put them on in around 4-5 mins and remove them in 2. For £55 it's well worth it IMO.

Yep one thing I have been thinking is about damage - I think this may be to a build up of snow/ice in the well behind the wheel ?

My car has front wheel thingies - forgot what they care called - stop the spray from coming up.

Anyway it looks like these encourage a build up of snow behind the front tyre - which can turn into hard packed ice and when you look closely at it is full of grit/stones etc..

As quite often this more or less rubs against the tyres I reckon this may be one reason for wear and tear on an autosock.

Anyway I am going to remove mine - if I can remember what they are called !!

[kraft]

you can buy 5 year old Range Rover Vogues with 70+k on them for 15k now, then spend 2k on an LPG conversion. Tell me what other quality vehicle that'll transport 4 people and 2 dogs in comfort through any conditions, you can buy which costs about the same as a normal 2.4l family saloon to run?

Or 5k on a used Hilux and spend the other 12k on diesel. They can get close 40 mpg btw. Vehicle of choice in most war zones.

[kraft]

"businessman"

[Peter Hun]

Or 5k on a used Hilux and spend the other 12k on diesel. They can get close 40 mpg btw. Vehicle of choice in most war zones.

The hIlux my father in law drives is great (he is a forest ranger in Poland). He regularly drives it into ditches and tree's when drunk, its smashed to shit, but just keeps on going. 4WD and winter tyres are essential in the snow, getting one or more wheels stuck in deep snow is common and the extra drive wheels make all the difference. Seats for five and plenty of space for the hunted boars in the back.

Going down hill *is* sledging, so gentle slow movement is the key.

[southmartin]

As recommended by the Taliban!

Not exactly the ultimate in refinement though is it?

[blobloblob]

As recommended by the Taliban!

They're not weating seat belts, how irresponsible. It's almost like they want to die.

[Bossybabe]

I am not jealous of your cooking oil marvel

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

[kraft]

As recommended by the Taliban!

And American special forces! They are shipped over from california with a few upgrades like infrared headlights.

Here's one for 3k with air conditioning, central locking, power everything. Buy a spare set of wheels with winter tyres and install a remote starter and what more could you want for snow?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201050375175682/

[swissy_fit]

Reminds me of an anecdote: years ago we went for a day's skiing in France (this was when I lived there).

For the last few kms we had to put on the chains (like everyone else).

Get to the car park and start kitting up - and we notice one car that gently glides into the car park without the clatter of chains: an antique Citroen DS.

Moral of the story: never underestimate a fwd car with narrow (probably cross-ply) tires (and a careful driver).

On Saturday that person in the DS was me - I drove up to Les Carroz past all the people putting on their snow chains at the side of the road, parked by the lift, and drove away at the end of the day. All I have is snow tyres, with autosocks and chains in the back for extreme and super-extreme conditions, but I've never used them since I got snow tyres.

It's just a plain diesel family Mazda 5, and yes, I drive carefully in the snow, very easy on the throttle.

My mate has a diesel Citroen 7-seater thingy and it's even better than the Mazda in the snow. Another has a petrol Vauxhall Zafira and it's rubbish, he can't get out of the drive without putting chains on.

I don't know how you find out how good a car will be in the snow when you buy it, for me it was sheer luck. My old Audi was good too, I never even put snow tyres on that, and I went to a lot of the Western Alps ski stations in it.

The best I've known was a Subaru Outback (ok it's 4wd) with snow tires driven by an Alpine club guide, we went over an uncleared pass (past a sign saying it was shut to traffic)through about 30-40cm snow and the only real problem was knowing where the road was, fortunately he seemed to know.

[rxe]

Well I had a whale of a time in my Land-Rover on Saturday. Hooliganism was limited as I was towing a large trailer, but it didn't have any trouble at all. Even standing hill starts with 3.5 tonnes hanging off the tow bar did not bother it. It is fairly well equipped with locking axles and Mud&Snow tyres on the back. Oh, and a bloody great winch on the front that pulled the missus up a hill, delighting the children in the process. Some observations of the M40 (I was thankfully very close to the jack knifed fuel tanker, so got though before the big queues):

- RWD Mercs and BMWs - screwed, leave them at home.

- Front wheel drive cars - generally competent until you get to a hill. Then they spin.

- 4WD drivers - many seem to forget that under braking they are just as crap as a saloon car.

- All - seem to forget that brakes don't work very well in the snow.

Back to the OP...at about £3 a litre, I might start to consider getting a more economical diesel in the Landie that the current 16 mpg V8. But only if there is a v8 diesel to replace it.