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The Eagle

Your Right To Protest Is Under Threat

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Interesting article in "The Independent", some quotes here:

Nicky Wishart is a 12-year-old self-described “maths geek” who lives in the heart of David Cameron’s constituency. He was gutted when he found out his youth club was being shut down as part of the cuts: there’s nowhere else to hang out in his village. He was particularly outraged when he discovered online that Cameron had said, before the election, that he was “committed” to keeping youth clubs open. So he did the right thing. He organized a totally peaceful protest on Facebook outside Cameron’s constituency surgery. A few days later, the police arrived at his school. They hauled him out of his lessons, told him the anti-terrorism squad was monitoring him and threatened him with arrest.

[...]

Today, when I suggest to friends that they come to protest against a policy they passionately think will harm Britain, they have started to say something they never said before: I’m too frightened to go.

[...]

In Britain, we are not suffering from an excess of civil disobedience. We are suffering from an excess of civil obedience.

[...]

As Oscar Wilde said: “Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.”

[...]

Now imagine living in a country where this didn’t happen. Imagine a Britain where a cabinet of millionaires could exempt the super-rich from tax while taking away the £30 a week that keeps hard-working poor kids at school – only for the streets to stay silent and supine. If we don’t defend our right to protest, we may well end up living on that cowed and chilly island.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-your-right-to-protest-is-under-threat-2162493.html

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Personally, I take this as a good sign. They are getting scared.

Sure they (I assume you mean the ones in power) are scared, but if we continue to be passive they will win anyway.

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Personally, I take this as a good sign. They are getting scared.

I think the UK in general should be far more bothered that the younger generation is getting pissed off enough to leave now that they are being forced to pay upfront for the crimes of the boomer generation.

Juli Birchill was screaming about the student protesters who were 'privileged'; how does she work that out? its a 'privilege' to basically put yourself into a lifetime of debt to pay high taxes for a generation to fund your parents retirement, knowing that you will not have the pension or health care you are paying for them to enjoy?

Remember, many countries still give their children free university education becuase they are investing in the countries future, not that of a privileged retired, generation. (Poland for instance, spend far more on education than healthcare.).

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Sure they (I assume you mean the ones in power) are scared, but if we continue to be passive they will win anyway.

Why would we choose to be passive? I think of myself as a fairly peaceful person but, to be frank, I'm starting to warm to the idea of a little mayhem. I'd prefer it if no one got hurt (hell, I'd prefer it if the great and the good started behaving, well, a little greater and a little gooder without the threat of physical violence), but they are beginning to take the p1$$.

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The people should not live in fear of their government but government should live in fear of the people.

The last time we had real bother in this country was when the government operated oblivious to the real interests of the people as if it had a divine right to do so. It ended with a Civil War and the end of oblvious autocracy but not an end to VI abuse of the people by those to whom power is delegated to but not easily removed from.

We dont do revolutions very well. But we have carried off a civil war before.

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The right to protest is being damaged by various groups.

Uncut tax lot are only into civil disobedience as a means of protest from what I have been able to gather.

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What worries me most are the queues of people ready to stick the boot into any type of protest, or indeed attack any target that the government/media line up for them.

The government are powerless without those who do their bidding.

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The right to protest is being damaged by various groups.

Uncut tax lot are only into civil disobedience as a means of protest from what I have been able to gather.

Why is civil disobediance "damaging"?

"Damaging" to whom?

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What worries me most are the queues of people ready to stick the boot into any type of protest, or indeed attack any target that the government/media line up for them.

The government are powerless without those who do their bidding.

Exactly

You can bet that the authorities are sh*tting-bricks at the moment. Things are starting to kick off all over Europe. There is stuff going off in Greece, for example, that is tantamount to insurrection and is being barely reported here.

You can also bet that there are agents on the net right now, on any forums or other social networking outlets that have any influence at all and are posting misdirection, obfuscation and confusion.

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The right to protest is being damaged by various groups.

Uncut tax lot are only into civil disobedience as a means of protest from what I have been able to gather.

You sound as if the right to protest is some kind of privilege handed down to you by the powers that be.

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You can also bet that there are agents on the net right now, on any forums or other social networking outlets that have any influence at all and are posting misdirection, obfuscation and confusion.

Sure there are, on HPC there have been for a long time, I guess any regular on here has a fairly good idea who they are.

Remember, labour has used spin-doctors and fake posts on forums and newspaper comment sections for many years, didn't they have an entire department dedicated to that?

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The right to protest is being damaged by various groups.

Uncut tax lot are only into civil disobedience as a means of protest from what I have been able to gather.

The recent demonstrations are what the right to protest looks like. We have forgotten that in this country. A right to protest does not mean being terribly polite and passive because that's what respectable people do. The anti war demonstrations proved how pointless that approach is. What has happened with the student protests didn't stop the vote or change the outcome but it did put the government on the defensive to the point they are now gearing up the fear propaganda. "Step out of line and we will get you" is effectively the message we've had in many mainstream media outlets since the riot last week. When a government uses rhetoric like that you know your protest has hit home.

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In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that if things get really nasty out there, anyone posting serious support for public protests should get themselves a VPN (virtual private network) insalled on their PC. This allows for complete anonymity of your IP address, even from your ISP. There are plenty of free one's out there that are based overseas and are outside of UK jurisdiction in terms of forcing them to pass over their ISP records.

Thing may really get sufficiently bad with regards to the above, for a VPN to be a sensible precaution.

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You can also bet that there are agents on the net right now, on any forums or other social networking outlets that have any influence at all and are posting misdirection, obfuscation and confusion.

Too right. One crack team at MI6 hacked Realistbear's HPC account last week and started posting as a bull! laugh.gif

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Why is civil disobediance "damaging"?

"Damaging" to whom?

The wealthy and the hidden 'string pullers' got rid of peoples voice of last resort, unlawfully bound them with laws restricting everything, undermined and infiltrated the unions to weaken and destroy them from within.

Powers that be shot themselves in the foot - coz the only thing left for the people is violent confrontation with the dictators currently in power.

They have proved for decades they will lie to our faces to keep themselves there too - only way is OOT on their arses and find out who the string pullers are!

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Sure there are, on HPC there have been for a long time, I guess any regular on here has a fairly good idea who they are.

Remember, labour has used spin-doctors and fake posts on forums and newspaper comment sections for many years, didn't they have an entire department dedicated to that?

Mumsnet just before the General Election was a hoot. I remember "Bigotgate" and the zillions of posts that flooded any thread on that subject and that were basically variants on "she's a bigotted old trout" with no further analysis.

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So, people should be protesting more, and kicking up whatever level of violence is necessary to acheive that. Is that true about any issue, or just those ones you agree with? How about protests over taking away the unaffordable waste Labour left us with? Government should just listen to that, see the protests, and give the people what they want, no matter how impossible that is?

Sure, there's a massive problem with governments just running roughshod over everything and getting away with it because they can, but what I'm seeing here seems to be leaning towards support for mob rule instead. Frankly, neither appeal much. Look what usually happens historically when riots start turning into revolutions, quite possibly very justified ones. The successful revolutionaries usually seem to go on a bloodthirsty rampage. A responsible government is going to have to put a stop to that sort of thing happening, and it's going to have to upset a lot of people at times. What we usually have in reality are governments covering a whole spectrum of irresponsibility. To suggest a position that seems to lend almost blanket support to one side or the other is idiotic, over-simplified thinking, and it's turning into a national disease.

I don't want to come across as a pro-government, send-in-the-tanks, keep the downtrodden masses where they belong to serve their masters type. I just want people to stop trying to force every bloody issue into black and white and to actually try engaging the brain for a change. Maybe people really do, but they do seem to speak with far too wide a sweep of the brush.

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When so much is wrong in society I am pleased by a bit of serious unrest. It means we're not all X Factored out of the equation yet.

The X Factor mentality will be the salvation of the Net Generation and of wider British society. Kids today expect to be involved, to interact, to have their say. They want to vote for their pop stars, they want to blog and tweet and share their likes and dislikes with the rest of the planet. The Net Generation believe their opinion counts and their individual actions can make a difference. X Factor just taps into this. It would never have worked with cynical, apathetic Generation Xers like me.

The digital world is a core part of their identity, not a space separate from 'real life' that they occasionally visit. They are connected, sharing and collaborating 24/7 which allows them to harness collective interests and activities in a way older generations find hard to fathom. For boomers and Generation X, including the police, the internet is still a strange and somewhat threatening environment. The case of this 12-year-old protester perfectly illustrates this fundamental generation gap and I can certainly sense both fear and confusion in the authorities regarding a school kid as a terrorist for organising a protest on Facebook.

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  • 285 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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