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gruffydd

Riots, Fire, Anger At Tuition Fees Protest (,house Prices,)

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i think thats quite likely, these students and the young are the first group to realise they are fcked and the country is on its way back to the relative poverty levels of the pre ponzi banking/debt bubble that started in the 80s, they will soon be joined in the protests by a portion of the welfare state and public sector who are likely to be the next to realise, then as red Ed comes in with a proper Labour manifesto whatever minimal capital in the uk that is left will do a runner and the middle class and pensioners will then realise they are fcked as well and the uk can take its rightful place of being back in the 70s without North Sea oil and ponzi finance to set it on a path to quick unearned wealth/debt, by then currency levels should have adjusted enough so that cheap tat from China is no longer cheap and the UK can start manufacturing again so you wont need to target 80% of students going to uni to keep them off the dole, get the flat screens in whilst you can, no doubt theyll be 6 months wages again soon enough

I totally agree with that prediction, sadly.

There is a total lack of long-term thinking among UK politicians - has been for as long as I can remember (this lot are no different) - and to kill off education, especially when our universities are one of the few world-beating 'things' we have left, is pretty much the last straw.

In 10 years' time, we'll be left wishing we'd subsidised our steel mills, coal mines and heavy industries for a few more years, as our wages will be competitive once more.

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It's worse than that, you're being made to pay for bankers' bonuses and a big donation to Ireland.

Yes, directly due to the sheer incompetence, and theft, and subsequent bail out policies of the Labour Party.

The same party who you 'are now a reluctant supporter of' according to your sig! Ha!

When someone robs and rapes you, you hold them responsible.

Edited by Dan1

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Sheer propaganda.

They don't have to own a house (or for that matter start a family) to be "fully fledged members of society"

Unless you have somewhere to stay without asking permission, you are a 'guest'.

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i think thats quite likely, these students and the young are the first group to realise they are fcked and the country is on its way back to the relative poverty levels of the pre ponzi banking/debt bubble that started in the 80s, they will soon be joined in the protests by a portion of the welfare state and public sector who are likely to be the next to realise, then as red Ed comes in with a proper Labour manifesto whatever minimal capital in the uk that is left will do a runner and the middle class and pensioners will then realise they are fcked as well and the uk can take its rightful place of being back in the 70s without North Sea oil and ponzi finance to set it on a path to quick unearned wealth/debt, by then currency levels should have adjusted enough so that cheap tat from China is no longer cheap and the UK can start manufacturing again so you wont need to target 80% of students going to uni to keep them off the dole, get the flat screens in whilst you can, no doubt theyll be 6 months wages again soon enough

Correct

Part of the script might change, but that's the overall scene toward equilibrium.

The problem is they will try to keep all the costly elf and safety, bureaucracy and costly infrastructure going, all the way along whilst the Chinese will never have it in the first place. So we'll actually have to be cheaper then the Chinese to compete, pay off our debts to them and pay for the dog end of our "infrastructure". Far better to crash and burn it now, but democracy won t see it that way.

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...Lucas watched angrily ...At 26, still paying off student debt, unable to get onto the housing ladder, she had thought the Lib Dems offered hope. "I saw them as the party for the young," she said. To her, the vote on fees was a broken promise.

..."There has been a build-up of issues – not just tuition fees but the EMA, youth unemployment, struggling to get onto the housing ladder and bleak prospects for the future – all coming together to spark a wave of protest," says Porter. "The NUS considers this level of youth activism to be unprecedented, perhaps since the 1960s."

...There was even some sympathy in the right-wing press. While condemning the violence, the Daily Mail also commented: "We… worry that graduates will have to start paying this money back at about the time they are buying their first house and starting a family, crippling them financially just as they try to become fully fledged members of society."

...they all go on about buying a house ....are they all stupid ..?....the market is dead...anyone with a brain is not interested and gets on with their lives ...they need to adapt or sink....foolish people always look for somebody to blame instead of using the brain ....instead of going to university all this lot should have trained to be Estate Agents....or become professional gamblers ....sad people..... :rolleyes:

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I have to ask ... who hasn't been shafted by politicians in the last twenty years?

It's not just the under-30s .. it's the 30 somethings, the oldies, the teens, the infants. If you stand back, you could argue that everyone between 40 and 65 who never really earnt a lot has been shafted as well.

To be blunt, the people of Britain have been shafted. Everyone who wasn't born to upper middle class parents since 1920 has been shafted in some way -- if it isn't though housing costs, it is through shocking state medical care, or appalling state education, or the destruction of local communities, or the increasing tension in civic space, or the collapse of industry.

It is everyone, really, isn't it?

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.Lucas watched angrily ...At 26, still paying off student debt, unable to get onto the housing ladder, she had thought the Lib Dems offered hope. "I saw them as the party for the young," she said.

Unbelievable.

So whats next for the guardian? Book Burning? Why don't you start with History books?

1.]Dont apologise for 13 years of Labour and Brown.

2.Remove any comments comparing tuition fee debt to the largest investment you will make in your lifetime, a house. Shhhhh! [Dont tell the Students!]

3.] Try to blame the Lib Dems for rising house prices.

4.] Finally, just pass the blame until the next GE....

What a strategy

The Guardian.................What a dirty little rag

Edited by Dan1

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I have to ask ... who hasn't been shafted by politicians in the last twenty years?

Immigrants and Baby Boomers. Bet that confuses the Daily Mail.

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Why are they getting away with bleating about 50k worth of debt

How many of this lot will be getting into the top Uni's charging 9k per year, and paying 23,000 pounds for accommodation over 3 years??

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So we can see housing is TOP of the agenda.

Good post earlier on regarding the dawning of realisation of being shafted - but do you REALLY think they're seeing it this way?

News had pics of the student 'perpetrators' all over the tv this evening.... talk about trying to put others off.

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They aren't bothered about FTB needing a stamp duty freebie up to the £250k mark but they're worried about paying back up to 27k

I couldn't agree more.

If only the students would consider protesting about the amount of debt they're going to have to take on in order to buy their first property, they might think twice about rioting over student fees - relative chicken feed.

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The big tartan clad elephant in the room is how on earth can British citizens living in the north of the island get FREE education but those by accident of birth and residence of their parents get to be lumbered with nearly £30,000 of debt for a 3 year degree!!!

So a young 18 year old in Carlise or Newcastle for the sake of 50 miles get a debt that will take them years and years to pay back.

How can it even be legal!!??

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The big tartan clad elephant in the room is how on earth can British citizens living in the north of the island get FREE education but those by accident of birth and residence of their parents get to be lumbered with nearly £30,000 of debt for a 3 year degree!!!

So a young 18 year old in Carlise or Newcastle for the sake of 50 miles get a debt that will take them years and years to pay back.

How can it even be legal!!??

They are rich up there because they found a lot of oil.

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It's strange how the NUS don't even mention what will happen to those students who've pushed through uni and then find that their qualifications are worthless due to it being cheaper to employ foreign nationals and that's not even taking into account the current tax advantages of ICTs. Their position on this issue demonstrates their narrow political agenda. Because it'd make me think twice before taking on that debt without having a career to go to abroad so that I can just play the game as it were.

I've heard of many tales of graduates being unable to carry out basic business function like the three Rs to ignore the fact that it isn't just our secondary education system that is failing. It should be possible to enter many occupations without the need for a degree just a proper secondary education. We need to wake up to the last twenty to thirty years of being brainwashed that a "degree" is the be all and end all, it is simple too costly. Our education system should produce the skills needed to start in an industry and not worthless certificates and unusable qualifications.

The whole loans policy is just a way of temporally passing the higher education costs from the state to individual in the short term. I can see why the banks are happy to get involved as they've yet again found another demographic to shaft which will be underwritten by the state, ie you and me. The condems should re write the legislation that the banks operate under so returning a form of capitalism to the country and breaking the totalitarian corporate hold on the country.

We as a nation needed to be a lot more honest and stop BS ourselves, degrees are just a left wing educational version of the emperors clothes.

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Correct

Part of the script might change, but that's the overall scene toward equilibrium.

The problem is they will try to keep all the costly elf and safety, bureaucracy and costly infrastructure going, all the way along whilst the Chinese will never have it in the first place. So we'll actually have to be cheaper then the Chinese to compete, pay off our debts to them and pay for the dog end of our "infrastructure". Far better to crash and burn it now, but democracy won t see it that way.

Mission impossible this side of this century!

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Guest The Relaxation Suite

Sold out eh

Today I was visiting someone who has REALLY been sold out by this country my 80 year old father who never went to uni - spent a lot of his time in his youth dong national service, never had his own home and when I was young worked THREE menial jobs to keep his family together .

My father is in Hospital after a fall and despite having worked and paid taxes all his life was found by my family on Thursday in a hospital bed crying from pain and covered in his own Sh@t ,ignored by nursing staff with a cold meal on a tray he could not reach - thats being sold out mate and there are thousands like him

Oh he's not there now he is in a private ward, not paid for by rich relations and boomers but paid for by my 24 year old plumber nephew who also never went to uni but has managed to build up a business and do well for himself, he used the money he was going to use for expanding his business and doing up his new home, and he also pays top rate tax and has helped the younger generation by taking on two apprentices.

Personally I think my Nephwe should be the face of the younger generation not a group of idiots smahing up property and swinging from national monumnets

If that were my father I think that nurse would probably be having a few problems with her car paintwork for the rest of her life. Also, I think cockroaches might accidentally be found all over the hospital on the same day a national journalist was mysteriously called to visit the place.

Edited by Tecumseh

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The big tartan clad elephant in the room is how on earth can British citizens living in the north of the island get FREE education but those by accident of birth and residence of their parents get to be lumbered with nearly £30,000 of debt for a 3 year degree!!!

So a young 18 year old in Carlise or Newcastle for the sake of 50 miles get a debt that will take them years and years to pay back.

How can it even be legal!!??

Entirely separate legal and education system. Something to do with being a formerly independent country.

And also strangely enough, bowing to the wishes of the voters. A concept amiss south of Hadrian's wall.

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It'll get much worse this Summer and if the economy downsizes and implodes more as somebody in this thread predicted, it'll probably end up in some kind of serious revolt, although Britain can certainly rebuild, since it rebuilt from two world wars and the eventual collapse of the now heavily wounded Globalisation will create lots of work for everybody. And just look at South Korea today after many decades of rough Japanese occupation, then many years of conflict, with almost six decades facing down a heavily armed and crazy neighbour. We've just got to contend with a set of greedy banks and a few million jobs being moved about, propped up by a fossilised corporate/political system that's becoming rapidly unpopular with everyone.

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To go back to the OP, I am not convinced this is the defining moment for a generation at all. I don't really think anything will change.

I say this because we saw all this back in the late 90s with the anti-capitalist riots (which were far more violent than these fee protests). To go back a bit further, I remember people saying similar things about what happened at Castle Morton and the Criminal Justice Bill. And at the time, that really was a blow against youth and subculture and a way of thinking for a generation that was far more fundamental than this tuition fee rise, purely because it covered far more socio-economic youth stratas and was a rather profound shift in terms of liberty, state reach and what the state could viably legislate against.

But what happened? Well, nothing really. Some people emigrated; others just settled down to the new landscape. I suspect the same will happen with this.

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State your sources.

If students stopped doing "summer jobs" and "part time jobs" then the dolies would have a chance at getting a part time job maybe.

A graduate does not need CV experience of working in a pub to get a job.

Were going to need at least 2 years for such a policy to be workable, after introduction of the universal credit. And in 2 years time £1.50ph net increase in £ is going to be even less of an incentive for the dolies than it is now. Cash in hand is a fiver already and you can often get 10-20 per hour cash in hand.

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To go back to the OP, I am not convinced this is the defining moment for a generation at all. I don't really think anything will change.

I say this because we saw all this back in the late 90s with the anti-capitalist riots (which were far more violent than these fee protests). To go back a bit further, I remember people saying similar things about what happened at Castle Morton and the Criminal Justice Bill. And at the time, that really was a blow against youth and subculture and a way of thinking for a generation that was far more fundamental than this tuition fee rise, purely because it covered far more socio-economic youth stratas and was a rather profound shift in terms of liberty, state reach and what the state could viably legislate against.

But what happened? Well, nothing really. Some people emigrated; others just settled down to the new landscape. I suspect the same will happen with this.

NO it is different this time , and it is different.

Go back to those riots and the people that took part in them, they were young and flexing their muscles ( which is all part of youth ) then those people got jobs settled down and had responsibilty. Many of the young today and those coming up now will not get jobs or if they do they will be very low paid jobs with little prospects and little security. They will not be able to settle down have kids and a home . That is the difference. The biggest event for a young male that changes him is marrying and taking adult responsibility. That is not going to happen. How will they ever be able to buy a house or rent in the private sector on £6 an hour.

In days gone by people moaned about it all down the pub or in the works rest room . Today the internet and mobil phones make arranging to do something about it so much eaiser and it is already happening. The internet is also communicating much more knowledge to the average person the rip offs and the cartels of the rich are being found out , people are also waking up to the govenment being the pupets of the mega multi national companies and the banks.

IT IS DIFFERENT THIS TIME.

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  • 293 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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