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Powys And Ceredigion Homes Consultation Over 'crisis'

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-mid-wales-11968324

Housing chiefs in mid Wales are suggesting a "radical overhaul" of the system for allocating homes.

Mid Wales Housing Association said there was a "housing crisis" with most households in Ceredigion - and 40% in Powys - unable to afford a mortgage.

It said housing priority should be given to the employed who "contribute" to society, and not to people with "problems".

The assembly government said increasing affordable homes was a priority.

The housing association said it wanted to abandon the existing way of allocating housing based on a system which gave people with the greatest number of problems the most points, and a house.

The association, which has 1,250 homes across mid Wales, described the housing situation as "shocking".

It said nearly 40% of households in Powys could not afford to buy a home or rent from private landlords.

In Ceredigion, three-quarters of all households in the most affordable housing market did not have the income to secure an entry level mortgage, the association added.

It claimed that a huge sector of the population in both counties were reliant on affordable housing from councils or housing associations, even though between 1996 and 2008 council and housing association homes in Wales decreased by 12%.

There is also an expected shortfall in provision in mid Wales of 345 properties a year.

The association's chief executive Shane Perkins said: "In these difficult economic times to ask for more resources from the assembly is naive and we need to find innovative ways to respond to the crisis.

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Interesting.Radical. Allocate housing on the basis of 'least points', not most. Could make a big difference...particularly if all those with points went elsewhere.

This is a huge problem in Mid and West Wales - the Assembly gives cash to Housing Associations to build houses but 'the system' means that your local low-paid worker is not eligible for the housing but also cannot afford a mortgage him or herself... but the housing then goes to people who are often not contributing at all... which then leads to anger, resentment and an exodus of Welsh people from those parts... often being replaced by second home owners.... it is a nutty situation.

Yes, very radical if they go through with it and perhaps a model for housing associations across the UK to follow.

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Hmmm,

if they take this to the logical extreme, the housing association will come up with a new solution to the problem, called 'The Market'.

At the moment people seem to be able to obtain the best housing by acquiring 'problems'. Reward that sort of behaviour, and that is the behaviour you will get.

I still stand by my call for all council housing and housing association homes to be sold off to the highest bidder, except in extreme cases of need. Reward hard work and endeavour, and strangely enough, the nation will produce more hard work and endeavour.

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This is a huge problem in Mid and West Wales - the Assembly gives cash to Housing Associations to build houses but 'the system' means that your local low-paid worker is not eligible for the housing but also cannot afford a mortgage him or herself... but the housing then goes to people who are often not contributing at all... which then leads to anger, resentment and an exodus of Welsh people from those parts... often being replaced by second home owners.... it is a nutty situation.

Yes, very radical if they go through with it and perhaps a model for housing associations across the UK to follow.

I often think of Wales as the home of the ideal of working class socialism. I am sure that ex-members of the steel and mining communities remember the almost slave like conditions that some people used to work under, for a pittance. The idea of taxing the rich and wealthy, and subsidising the lives of the working class seems like a sensible idea, it reduces the injustice of a system where a few have all the power and all the money.

Somewhere along the line though, the idea has been corrupted. I cant help but think that the basic idea was to take from those who receive more money than they actually produce, and give that money to those that earn less than they produce. However the rules that govern that redistribution seem to have been corrupted, such that those who dont produce at all are given incredibly generous benefits when you take into account things like housing subsidies. Even Karl Marx would never have called for benefits for people who are not contributing.

We need a carrot and a stick. Some sort of government works to get the unemployed back on to their feet, and used to work. And somewhat less carrots for those that wont contribute.

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Yes, I think I posted somewhere before that all housing associations are is a way to fleece the taxpayer. As they are non-profit making, any surplus gained from rents and subsidies can spill out as excess pay for those at the top. The other alternative is lower rents.

And I am not sure that lower rents are right either, any surplus belongs to the taxpayer.

I think what we will see, if and when there is a housing crash, is that many of these housing associations will collapse with large debts. The bezzle has been hidden by high and rising house prices, and by the cushion of the taxpayer subsidy.

Not all those who run housing associations are crooks of course, but where there is government money up for grabs, you are going to find the unscruplous.

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I often think of Wales as the home of the ideal of working class socialism. I am sure that ex-members of the steel and mining communities remember the almost slave like conditions that some people used to work under, for a pittance. The idea of taxing the rich and wealthy, and subsidising the lives of the working class seems like a sensible idea, it reduces the injustice of a system where a few have all the power and all the money.

Somewhere along the line though, the idea has been corrupted. I cant help but think that the basic idea was to take from those who receive more money than they actually produce, and give that money to those that earn less than they produce. However the rules that govern that redistribution seem to have been corrupted, such that those who dont produce at all are given incredibly generous benefits when you take into account things like housing subsidies. Even Karl Marx would never have called for benefits for people who are not contributing.

We need a carrot and a stick. Some sort of government works to get the unemployed back on to their feet, and used to work. And somewhat less carrots for those that wont contribute.

That was it originally.

People forget how much of the social benefits we get as a Society, and I am talking in the broad use of the term here and not the way in which people think of 'social benefit' nowadays, stem from the appalling poverty that existed in Wales from around 1800 through to the 1930s and the resulting Social movement that comprised a mix of the political, the social and the religious that brought about free healthcare, pensions, free education.

Wales had its own unique form of Socialism bordering on Marxism but which also encompassed, as I said, the religious and the political - quite diverse opinions united in one task and that task being Social justice.

Alas, it has now been so twisted and warped and used and abused for various ends, often by much lesser people, that it is no longer fit for purpose.

It is interesting that this has come from Mid Wales as Mid Wales did move to the Tories in the last election and I wonder how much of this is something to do with Ian Duncan-Smith. It is a very radical idea indeed.

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That was it originally.

People forget how much of the social benefits we get as a Society, and I am talking in the broad use of the term here and not the way in which people think of 'social benefit' nowadays, stem from the appalling poverty that existed in Wales from around 1800 through to the 1930s and the resulting Social movement that comprised a mix of the political, the social and the religious that brought about free healthcare, pensions, free education.

Wales had its own unique form of Socialism bordering on Marxism but which also encompassed, as I said, the religious and the political - quite diverse opinions united in one task and that task being Social justice.

Alas, it has now been so twisted and warped and used and abused for various ends, often by much lesser people, that it is no longer fit for purpose.

It is interesting that this has come from Mid Wales as Mid Wales did move to the Tories in the last election and I wonder how much of this is something to do with Ian Duncan-Smith. It is a very radical idea indeed.

In Wales it used to be about helping the working people.

I look around me and I see lots of low paid people, usually young, working in MacDonalds, or at the cinema, or in supermarkets, or in pubs, or waiting at tables. It seems to me that it is this group of private sector workers who are putting in all the effort, and getting least out at the moment.

I will judge this government by how it treats this segment of our population. They deserve more.

Those who deserve less include, judges, mp's, police, doctors, nurses (to an extent), bankers, civil servants on over £30K, top management at councils, pensioners, non-working families with free housing.

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Yes, I think I posted somewhere before that all housing associations are is a way to fleece the taxpayer. As they are non-profit making, any surplus gained from rents and subsidies can spill out as excess pay for those at the top. The other alternative is lower rents.

And I am not sure that lower rents are right either, any surplus belongs to the taxpayer.

I think what we will see, if and when there is a housing crash, is that many of these housing associations will collapse with large debts. The bezzle has been hidden by high and rising house prices, and by the cushion of the taxpayer subsidy.

Not all those who run housing associations are crooks of course, but where there is government money up for grabs, you are going to find the unscruplous.

Couldn't they use the surplus to.... build more houses?

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+ 1

These associations don't build anything any more, right? If so, then they don't improve supply at all. Aren't they just middle-men then, between tax-payers and tenants, taking a (large) cut?

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Couldn't they use the surplus to.... build more houses?

They could do, but that would drive down profitability. Sorry I meant wages, not profitability at housing associations, these are after all non-profit making institutions.

The nice thing about these profits is that you get to take all the profit as wages, without having to risk any of your own money, at least if I understand the mechanics of the scam correctly.

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They could do, but that would drive down profitability. Sorry I meant wages, not profitability at housing associations, these are after all non-profit making institutions.

The nice thing about these profits is that you get to take all the profit as wages, without having to risk any of your own money, at least if I understand the mechanics of the scam correctly.

So how to set up a housing association?

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I often think of Wales as the home of the ideal of working class socialism. I am sure that ex-members of the steel and mining communities remember the almost slave like conditions that some people used to work under, for a pittance. The idea of taxing the rich and wealthy, and subsidising the lives of the working class seems like a sensible idea, it reduces the injustice of a system where a few have all the power and all the money.

Somewhere along the line though, the idea has been corrupted. I cant help but think that the basic idea was to take from those who receive more money than they actually produce, and give that money to those that earn less than they produce. However the rules that govern that redistribution seem to have been corrupted, such that those who dont produce at all are given incredibly generous benefits when you take into account things like housing subsidies. Even Karl Marx would never have called for benefits for people who are not contributing.

We need a carrot and a stick. Some sort of government works to get the unemployed back on to their feet, and used to work. And somewhat less carrots for those that wont contribute.

True. The problem is the left can't see this, because they are so convinced that they are progressive, they can't understand they have become entrenched reactionaries. It's the same with immigration, the liberal/left seem to think of them as wide eyed ******** just off the boat constantly being exploited and having turds pushed through their letterboxes like it's still 1966, so they can't see that immigration causes intense problems with allocation of resources in a contributory welfare system :angry:

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Hmmm,

if they take this to the logical extreme, the housing association will come up with a new solution to the problem, called 'The Market'.

At the moment people seem to be able to obtain the best housing by acquiring 'problems'. Reward that sort of behaviour, and that is the behaviour you will get.

I still stand by my call for all council housing and housing association homes to be sold off to the highest bidder, except in extreme cases of need. Reward hard work and endeavour, and strangely enough, the nation will produce more hard work and endeavour.

Except that no matter what Wales wants to do, the bankers/central bank will steal savings from the prudent to support the wasteful, and then force the use a currency that is actively and deliberately being trashed. Doesn't encourage virtuous behaviour, does it?

The best thing that Wales could do to solve it's housing (and other) problems would be to introduce it's own local currency; at the very least it's own housing bank.

Edited by Toto deVeer

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Hmmm,

if they take this to the logical extreme, the housing association will come up with a new solution to the problem, called 'The Market'.

At the moment people seem to be able to obtain the best housing by acquiring 'problems'. Reward that sort of behaviour, and that is the behaviour you will get.

I still stand by my call for all council housing and housing association homes to be sold off to the highest bidder, except in extreme cases of need. Reward hard work and endeavour, and strangely enough, the nation will produce more hard work and endeavour.

Usual bullshite from the resident fascisto - do you wipe your **** with your daily mail too? :D

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google is wonderful...

I've also thought about (vaguely) of how to set up a real 'building' society...you know take deposits and build houses.

I know someone who lives in a housing co-operative...google it..... from what I understand the tenants have a say in how it is run and they even interview new potential tenants. ;)

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Couldn't they use the surplus to.... build more houses?

This is the idea behind the new intermediate rental (80% of market) tenancies that will come in next year. The extra money, even if it comes from housing benefit, will fund new house building instead of HB going to some slum landlord to buy a BMW or fund his lifestyle in Cyprus.

That's the plan anyway.

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  • 277 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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