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Iceland To Repay Icesave Funds

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Assuming 3% interest per year (the Dutch rate), it works out at about €1,000 a year for each Icelander.

Edit: Dutch, not UK rate.

Edited by snowflux

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Assuming 3% interest per year (the U.K. rate), it works out at about €1,000 a year for each Icelander.

Anything is too much, of course. But I think they negotiated the minimum possible. It is largely a face-saving exercise.

And by 2046, Iceland may well find an opportunity to pay back the UK and the Netherlands with some similarly unfriendly gesture. What goes around normally comes around.

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Poor Icelanders, they got fcuked over badly.

This is like if you live in a HMO and one of the flat mates is a thief and when the police comes to arrest him he has left with his loot, so the judge condems the other flat mates to repay the value of the loot (despite they had nothing to do with it and didn't even know about the criminal activity of the fugitive flatmate).

Edited by wise_eagle

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That perspective seems excessively mournful and I'm not sure it's the best.

Someone always pays for someone else's mistakes.

Some other driver makes a mistake and someone gets caught up in a car crash. Not that person's fault but it happens all the time.

A defence contract goes awry and a shed load of money gets wasted. It's Johnny taxpayer that has to make it good even though it's never his fault.

Some doctor makes a mistake and someone is sicker than they should be.

It happens all the time.

In this example, the Iceland Regulator's asleep at the wheel. There's a train wreck of a bank crisis. Everyone's taxes go up.

It's the way of the world.

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Poor Icelanders, they got fcuked over badly.

This is like if you live in a HMO and one of the flat mates is a thief and when the police comes to arrest him he has left with his loot, so the judge condems the other flat mates to repay the value of the loot (despite they had nothing to do with it and didn't even know about the criminal activity of the fugitive flatmate).

Oh really?

Lets be more accurate with it.

Its like you live in a HMO and one of your flatmates is a thief. When he is caught, he demands that you are responsible for the theft for living with him. He promises to repay you for a part of the debt (without accepting any responsibility) but insisting that you take out a loan to pay for the delay while he sells the loot. If he doesn't have a job, he wants a free holiday from the debt repayments. Also, he wants a four year interest free loan that you pay for while the discussion is delayed by his lawyers.

Here are the facts; the Icelandic government GUARANTEED that investors in Icesave would have their bank deposits protected. Not some wish washy concept, they came to the UK and Holland and publicly stated that putting the money in the bank was safe. They then LIED (the Icelandic government),to the Dutch regulators about the amount of deposits they would take and LIED to the whole of Europe about the state of thier banking system.

The Icelandic government, media and education system was being PAID to keep quite. The Icelandic president was paid to be their official cheerleader. When other countries tried to stop the Icelanders looting their economies the Icelanders threw EU law in the face and DEMANDED to be allowed to continue.

The Icelanders went along with this as they believed in their racial superiority over the lessor human species and proceeded to rack up loans and debts using lending schemes (in foreign currency) that were illegal yet were allowed until their negative effect was felt (the currency collapased). The loans were then converted in to local currency and the cost dumped on the foreign suckers who provided them.

Iceland has played the world for chumps robbed them and run away laughing, not just a small minority but the whole country (best bankers, smartest people on the planet they liked to boast). The Icelanders claim that they have a almost pure democracy, yet refuse to accept responsibility for their government even though they are largely blood related to them and the bankers themselves.

BTW, Icelanders will probably reject the deal as it does place all the responsibility on everybody else.

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Oh really?

Lets be more accurate with it.

Its like you live in a HMO and one of your flatmates is a thief. When he is caught, he demands that you are responsible for the theft for living with him. He promises to repay you for a part of the debt (without accepting any responsibility) but insisting that you take out a loan to pay for the delay while he sells the loot. If he doesn't have a job, he wants a free holiday from the debt repayments. Also, he wants a four year interest free loan that you pay for while the discussion is delayed by his lawyers.

Here are the facts; the Icelandic government GUARANTEED that investors in Icesave would have their bank deposits protected. Not some wish washy concept, they came to the UK and Holland and publicly stated that putting the money in the bank was safe. They then LIED (the Icelandic government),to the Dutch regulators about the amount of deposits they would take and LIED to the whole of Europe about the state of thier banking system.

The Icelandic government, media and education system was being PAID to keep quite. The Icelandic president was paid to be their official cheerleader. When other countries tried to stop the Icelanders looting their economies the Icelanders threw EU law in the face and DEMANDED to be allowed to continue.

The Icelanders went along with this as they believed in their racial superiority over the lessor human species and proceeded to rack up loans and debts using lending schemes (in foreign currency) that were illegal yet were allowed until their negative effect was felt (the currency collapased). The loans were then converted in to local currency and the cost dumped on the foreign suckers who provided them.

Iceland has played the world for chumps robbed them and run away laughing, not just a small minority but the whole country (best bankers, smartest people on the planet they liked to boast). The Icelanders claim that they have a almost pure democracy, yet refuse to accept responsibility for their government even though they are largely blood related to them and the bankers themselves.

BTW, Icelanders will probably reject the deal as it does place all the responsibility on everybody else.

Where were your British and Dutch Regulators? I would take my ire out on them. Just like the Icelandic government, the British, Dutch, European, American, etc governments are equally complicit, and equally corrupt.

I hope that the Icelandic people do kick this out, as do the Irish, eventually the British and everyone else for that matter. This is a bankers wet dream, debt that can never be extinguished...

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Where were your British and Dutch Regulators? I would take my ire out on them. Just like the Icelandic government, the British, Dutch, European, American, etc governments are equally complicit, and equally corrupt.

I hope that the Icelandic people do kick this out, as do the Irish, eventually the British and everyone else for that matter. This is a bankers wet dream, debt that can never be extinguished...

Nope, the Icelandic regulators over ruled the UK and NL regulators. Iceland regulates its own banks and they exploited EU in order to deliberately bypass the local regulators. When challenged the Icelandic regulator lied and deceived the local regulators in order to maximise the theft.

In Iceland bankers=Icelandic government.

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Nope, the Icelandic regulators over ruled the UK and NL regulators. Iceland regulates its own banks and they exploited EU in order to deliberately bypass the local regulators. When challenged the Icelandic regulator lied and deceived the local regulators in order to maximise the theft.

In Iceland bankers=Icelandic government.

How can Iceland over-rule the UK and Holland on banking regulation? Surely you must be joking?

And it does not matter what governments promise each other in the way of sovereign guarantees over private corporation debt; this is blatantly illegal and the people all over the world have the right to abolish it.

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Oh really?

Lets be more accurate with it.

....

The Icelanders went along with this as they believed in their racial superiority over the lessor human species and proceeded to rack up loans and debts using lending schemes (in foreign currency) that were illegal yet were allowed until their negative effect was felt (the currency collapased). The loans were then converted in to local currency and the cost dumped on the foreign suckers who provided them.

Iceland has played the world for chumps robbed them and run away laughing, not just a small minority but the whole country (best bankers, smartest people on the planet they liked to boast). The Icelanders claim that they have a almost pure democracy, yet refuse to accept responsibility for their government even though they are largely blood related to them and the bankers themselves.

BTW, Icelanders will probably reject the deal as it does place all the responsibility on everybody else.

You are a moron :blink:

The Icelanders rioted to bring down a rotten corrput government, they rioted to refuse to bail out private creditors and condemn themselves to servitude :angry:

They broke up their banks and forced losses on the shareholders and bondholders in the banks who were "professional" investors :lol:

They are bankrupting speculators, bringing criminal charges against bankers, politicians :D

They sacked half their investment bankers and halved the pay of those that remained

Its not surprising them seem to coming out of recession okay :)

The British and the Irish could learn a lot from them about how to treat financiers <_<

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How can Iceland over-rule the UK and Holland on banking regulation? Surely you must be joking?

No I am not joking. EU laws say there has to be an open market and free movement of capital. A such, banking laws allow any EEA country to open a bank in another EEA country and have it regulated by the banks regulator, not the regulator of the country where the bank is operating. The regulating country is responsible for everything, including guaranteeing the depositors of the bank up to the 21K euro limit. This is called passporting.

Iceland exploited this to get access to UK and NL depositors, lying to the local regulators who we obviously alarmed. Holland specified and agreed a maximum of 1Billion euro's with the Icelandic regulators, who ignored it and allowed their bank to steal 500million more.

When the crash came Iceland protected its own local depositors and in direct violation of EU law, gave preferential treatment to them. UK and Dutch savers had to be protected by their own tax payers. Iceland were offered the option to switch to UK depositor protection scheme just before the crash for £200million. This would have probably saved the Icelandic bank but the Icelandic regulator refused, possibly hoping to avoid paying anything.

And it does not matter what governments promise each other in the way of sovereign guarantees over private corporation debt; this is blatantly illegal and the people all over the world have the right to abolish it.

Of course and Iceland should be kicked out of the EEA and prevented form committing such robbery again. Personal bank accounts are NOT 'private corporate debt' its depositors money guaranteed by the regulating government, to be returned ON DEMAND. Its given to the banks on condition that the government will return it (up to the £18K/21K euro) limit if the banks go bust.

Icelanders had every opportunity to stop their finance minister, government and regulator making GUARANTEES that the depositors will be protected according to EU law. Icelanders bank accounts were protected; Do Icelanders protest this ? no They said, go ahead, steal from foreigners to make sure our saving are safe.

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....

Iceland exploited this to get access to UK and NL depositors, lying to the local regulators who we obviously alarmed. Holland specified and agreed a maximum of 1Billion euro's with the Icelandic regulators, who ignored it and allowed their bank to steal 500million more.

When the crash came Iceland protected its own local depositors and in direct violation of EU law, gave preferential treatment to them. UK and Dutch savers had to be protected by their own tax payers. Iceland were offered the option to switch to UK depositor protection scheme just before the crash for £200million. This would have probably saved the Icelandic bank but the Icelandic regulator refused, possibly hoping to avoid paying anything.

Of course and Iceland should be kicked out of the EEA and prevented form committing such robbery again. Personal bank accounts are NOT 'private corporate debt' its depositors money guaranteed by the regulating government, to be returned ON DEMAND. Its given to the banks on condition that the government will return it (up to the £18K/21K euro) limit if the banks go bust.

....

You are WRONG :angry:

Iceland, a nation =/= the senior management of three Icelandic banks, who will probably end up in jail there in due course <_<

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No I am not joking. EU laws say there has to be an open market and free movement of capital. A such, banking laws allow any EEA country to open a bank in another EEA country and have it regulated by the banks regulator, not the regulator of the country where the bank is operating. The regulating country is responsible for everything, including guaranteeing the depositors of the bank up to the 21K euro limit. This is called passporting.

Iceland exploited this to get access to UK and NL depositors, lying to the local regulators who we obviously alarmed. Holland specified and agreed a maximum of 1Billion euro's with the Icelandic regulators, who ignored it and allowed their bank to steal 500million more.

When the crash came Iceland protected its own local depositors and in direct violation of EU law, gave preferential treatment to them. UK and Dutch savers had to be protected by their own tax payers. Iceland were offered the option to switch to UK depositor protection scheme just before the crash for £200million. This would have probably saved the Icelandic bank but the Icelandic regulator refused, possibly hoping to avoid paying anything.

Of course and Iceland should be kicked out of the EEA and prevented form committing such robbery again. Personal bank accounts are NOT 'private corporate debt' its depositors money guaranteed by the regulating government, to be returned ON DEMAND. Its given to the banks on condition that the government will return it (up to the £18K/21K euro) limit if the banks go bust.

Icelanders had every opportunity to stop their finance minister, government and regulator making GUARANTEES that the depositors will be protected according to EU law. Icelanders bank accounts were protected; Do Icelanders protest this ? no They said, go ahead, steal from foreigners to make sure our saving are safe.

Your logic is confusing me here.

You are saying that a private bank is actually sovereign?

You are saying that the host country has no responsibility regulating its own banks?

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You are a moron :blink:

The Icelanders rioted to bring down a rotten corrput government, they rioted to refuse to bail out private creditors and condemn themselves to servitude :angry:

They broke up their banks and forced losses on the shareholders and bondholders in the banks who were "professional" investors :lol:

They are bankrupting speculators, bringing criminal charges against bankers, politicians :D

They sacked half their investment bankers and halved the pay of those that remained

Its not surprising them seem to coming out of recession okay :)

The British and the Irish could learn a lot from them about how to treat financiers <_<

You are a living in cloud cuckoo land.

They did NOT remove the corrupt political banking system. The banks still employ the SAME people in positions of power. NOBODY has been prosecuted or had their stolen assets confiscated. Nothing has changed in Iceland. You and many other people find it a nice little fantasy to believe that. Iceland is such a small country that anyone with power, in the Party, is untouchable. Any media complaining about the situation is quietly bribed or persuaded to keep quiet.

They have not sacked half the bankers or halved their pay. They are all still there, paid by money borrowed by the government. The banking industry is 50% of the Icelandic economy and unemployement has risen only slightly.

Its not surprising them seem to coming out of recession okay :)

They have by no means finished their economic crash. Their currency is unconvertible and subject to capital controls so the Glacier bonds (worth 50% of GDP) cannot be repatriated and when(if) the controls are removed their floating, real exchange rate will crash again and they will suffer another economic crash. Plus when, if ever the Krona becomes convertable to real money the 60Billion euro bondholders may well start suing the Icelandic state for criminal neglect and fraud. This wasn't just Icelandic bankers who, it was the entire Icelandic government who were being bribed directly with millions of euro 'loans' (which have been declared illegal under Icelandic law so cannot be enforced)

They broke up their banks and forced losses on the shareholders and bondholders in the banks who were "professional" investors :lol:

They refused to protect person banking customers based on nationality. Opening a bank account doesn't make you a professional investor, unless you thing every uk bank account holder is a professional investor who should not be able to claim the EU specified depositor protection?

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Your logic is confusing me here.

You are saying that a private bank is actually sovereign?

Why do you think that governments bail out banks? why do you think that government have depositor protector schemes? Because they have laws specifying that they have to.

Icelandic law is quite specific, the banks are regulated to take depositors money and they are regulated and controlled to ensure that that depositors money is protected.

Would you open a bank account if you knew that your wage would be paid into it and the bank could simply steal your monthly pay check?

A private, limited company could do this simply by declaring bankruptcy. The following day they could open a new 'private' bank and do the same a month later.

Banks are not like this, the government provides a depositor protection scheme and licenses and regulates the banks to prevent them going bankrupt.

You are saying that the host country has no responsibility regulating its own banks?

The host country for Icesave was Iceland and it was regulated and depositor protected by Iceland. It used the passporting bank scheme to bypass (criminally in this case) local EU regulation.

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The terms of the agreement must now be approved by Iceland's parliament and president.

Can't see that happening

No, neither can I. Kick them out of the EEA and add duty to their exports until the debt is paid.

EEA set a deadline of today/yesterday for them to respond to the repayment of Icesave, if they don't comply they will get the boot. Aside from the trade benefits (no duty within EEA/EU) they will lose residency and employment rights for Icelanders, plus it makes the country far less attractive for investors if its outside the European Economic Area.

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Why were Icesave offering 6% zero risk return with instant access, if you want to invest in a bank in iceland who are offering a higher return than anyone else

then spend 10 minutes doing some research.

The UK government doesn't have a job to protect you against default of Icelandic banks, there are markets that offer to CDS to insure yourself against failure for high return

Icelandic bank investments who promise zero risk. Greed and stupidity just how ING were losing masses of deposits to Icesave who offered 200 points more ING then

after the collapse ING took over the remaining mess.

If UK councils will loan £900 Million to an investment bank they have no understanding of, with no insurance against default they deserve to lose the lot.

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You are WRONG :angry:

Iceland, a nation =/= the senior management of three Icelandic banks, who will probably end up in jail there in due course <_<

No, the Icelandic government was employed, i.e paid by the banks. That is, given money to act on behalf of the banks. The Icelandic finance minister, regulator and Icelandic President and others represented the banks in their cash raising drives. Half the population were working directly or almost directly for the banks, Iceland is a tiny city where many people are related and the corrupt government is very close to the people.

The management will not end up in jail, how can the judge, jury, politicians and police jail their own family? They will simply ignore the issue and allow them off Scott free. The management of these banks are still the SAME PEOPLE.

Never mind jailing them, they are still in their jobs and on the board. Nobody has been charged and the statute of limitations will soon prevent them being charged in future. For politicians its two years and the crimes have expired.

Edited by Peter Hun

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Why do you think that governments bail out banks? why do you think that government have depositor protector schemes? Because they have laws specifying that they have to.

Icelandic law is quite specific, the banks are regulated to take depositors money and they are regulated and controlled to ensure that that depositors money is protected.

Would you open a bank account if you knew that your wage would be paid into it and the bank could simply steal your monthly pay check?

A private, limited company could do this simply by declaring bankruptcy. The following day they could open a new 'private' bank and do the same a month later.

Banks are not like this, the government provides a depositor protection scheme and licenses and regulates the banks to prevent them going bankrupt.

The host country for Icesave was Iceland and it was regulated and depositor protected by Iceland. It used the passporting bank scheme to bypass (criminally in this case) local EU regulation.

It seems that you are becoming captive to the government spin machine.

There is a difference between sovereign and private debt.

Realistically, guarantees on deposits cannot be extended outside the jurisdiction of a nation's currency, in a fantasy world, perhaps it is different.

The British government explicitly approved and regulated the Icelandic banks in the UK.

The blame lay with the British regulators, who, at best, fell asleep at the wheel, or at worst, were corrupted. Their duty is to protect British investors, a task which they failed to do.

I feel sorry for people who lost money deposited with the Icelandic banks, but I also feel sorry for people who invested in Enron or a thousand other private companies who have gone bust.

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Why were Icesave offering 6% zero risk return with instant access, if you want to invest in a bank in iceland who are offering a higher return than anyone else

then spend 10 minutes doing some research.

The UK government doesn't have a job to protect you against default of Icelandic banks, there are markets that offer to CDS to insure yourself against failure for high return

Icelandic bank investments who promise zero risk. Greed and stupidity just how ING were losing masses of deposits to Icesave who offered 200 points more ING then

after the collapse ING took over the remaining mess.

If UK councils will loan £900 Million to an investment bank they have no understanding of, with no insurance against default they deserve to lose the lot.

This NOTHING to do with professional investors. The councils and professionals were nothing to do with Icesave and this debt. The professionals have to wait in line like everyone else, toi get their money back.

This is about personal bank accounts from savers with a few thousand pounds who were legally protected by the 18K limit of deposit protection that Iceland provided like all EU countries HAVE to provide. Iceland simply refused to protect non Icelandic citizens and attempted to make the UK/NL pay instead.

Edited by Peter Hun

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Realistically, guarantees on deposits cannot be extended outside the jurisdiction of a nation's currency, in a fantasy world, perhaps it is different.

The British government explicitly approved and regulated the Icelandic banks in the UK.

Thats point blank wrong. You obviously have no idea about the European banking law regarding the passport scheme.

Even MSE has something about it read point 2.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/safe-savings

and here for the list of banks int he Uk regulated by their home countries.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/safe-savings#foreign

Here's a list of the big non-UK savings banks and smaller top payers that have been in our best buys in the past few years

PASSPORT EXEMPTION BANKS (NOT COVERED BY UK FSCS)

Akbank

€100,000 (Netherlands)

Anglo-Irish Bank

All deposits until Dec 2010 (Ireland)

Bank of Cyprus

€100,000 (Cyprus)

Bank of Ireland

All deposits until Dec 2010 (Ireland)

ING Direct

€100,000 (Netherlands)

Kaupthing Edge

Now part of ING Direct - SEE ING DIRECT

Triodos Bank

€100,000 (Netherlands)

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Why were Icesave offering 6% zero risk return with instant access, if you want to invest in a bank in iceland who are offering a higher return than anyone else

then spend 10 minutes doing some research.

The UK government doesn't have a job to protect you against default of Icelandic banks, there are markets that offer to CDS to insure yourself against failure for high return

Icelandic bank investments who promise zero risk. Greed and stupidity just how ING were losing masses of deposits to Icesave who offered 200 points more ING then

after the collapse ING took over the remaining mess.

If UK councils will loan £900 Million to an investment bank they have no understanding of, with no insurance against default they deserve to lose the lot.

+1

This one was so obvious

A fool and his money....and all that

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Thats point blank wrong. You obviously have no idea about the European banking law regarding the passport scheme.

Even MSE has something about it read point 2.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/safe-savings

and here for the list of banks int he Uk regulated by their home countries.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/safe-savings#foreign

Are not those guarantees in their own currencies, the Euro (with the exception of Kaupthing Edge)?

This is why I used the term 'realistically'. Otherwise the guarantee is simply a legal construct in fantasy land.

So, from a practical perspective, how can Iceland guarantee deposits in dollars, Euro or Sterling? Pure fantasy that the British (and other) regulators should have been more than aware.

And these deposit guarantees are offered by the banks, not the sovereigns, yes?

Very iffy business these guarantees. You might even get your money back, under a guarantee, perhaps at the rate of £10/week over 40 years.

You did know that once you deposit your money in a British bank, you no longer own it? so who is guaranteeing who?

The only true guarantee scheme is 100% reserves being held by the bank. But this would destroy their galactic bonus Ponzi pyramid, for sure.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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