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Are The Banks Behind The Tuition Fee's

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Could the banks conceivably be behind the rise in tuition fees?

Force half the population into debt at an early age and they are beholden to the banks for years.

Get them used to the idea of borrowing as an "investment for the future".

I'm of an era when going to uni was free and you got a grant to go.

I've now paid for that many times over in higher rate taxes.

It seems they now prefer to give the lending/repayment to the banks rather than the government making the investment.

The UK is going nowhere...fast.

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Could the banks conceivably be behind the rise in tuition fees?

Force half the population into debt at an early age and they are beholden to the banks for years.

Get them used to the idea of borrowing as an "investment for the future".

I'm of an era when going to uni was free and you got a grant to go.

I've now paid for that many times over in higher rate taxes.

It seems they now prefer to give the lending/repayment to the banks rather than the government making the investment.

The UK is going nowhere...fast.

I had no chance of Uni anyway. I had no choice at 16, get out and earn a living, tip up your share and have some money left for the weekend. Contented? You betcha.

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Private Eye had an recent article on this. There are a number of private education "providers" from the UK and especially the US, who are champing at the bit to get access to the running of UK universities. The govt policy of upping fees and making Unis chase the student's cash means the privatisation of the Uni system in the UK. There wil be fat profits for these businesses. For the students, only debt.

PS. The PE article had quotes from US authorities stating that the education standards went DOWN in many cases where these companies had control.... :ph34r:

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Could the banks conceivably be behind the rise in tuition fees?

Force half the population into debt at an early age and they are beholden to the banks for years.

Get them used to the idea of borrowing as an "investment for the future".

I'm of an era when going to uni was free and you got a grant to go.

I've now paid for that many times over in higher rate taxes.

It seems they now prefer to give the lending/repayment to the banks rather than the government making the investment.

The UK is going nowhere...fast.

Snap - and even die hard tories are voting for it

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mmmm lets see

No payment up front

Spread your payment over 30 years (what then if it's still outstanding?)

No payment required until you're earning over £21k (we will just keep adding on the 2% above interest instead)

And even then, you'll only be paying £35 a month!

So boys and girls, how long do we think it will take to pay back £45k with 2.7% of your monthly take home pay (compounding interest)?!?

Because, we all know paying LESS over a much LONGER payment period is cheaper and more progressive than the present system?!?!

Call me Dave? Sub-Prime Dave more like, most of these poor saps will never be able to afford to pay the debt off.

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Could the banks conceivably be behind the rise in tuition fees?

Force half the population into debt at an early age and they are beholden to the banks for years.

Get them used to the idea of borrowing as an "investment for the future".

I'm of an era when going to uni was free and you got a grant to go.

I've now paid for that many times over in higher rate taxes.

It seems they now prefer to give the lending/repayment to the banks rather than the government making the investment.

The UK is going nowhere...fast.

It could very possibly be the banks encouraging it. It's becoming clear that UK politicians are remarkable for their lack of own ideas apart from their own nest feathering.

Also on the value of the tuition fee new deal, the government is quite prepared to encourage and allow companies to break contracts (as well as themselves breaking manifesto pledges) i.e. they want companies pension escalator currently based on the "hard wired" RPI scheme to change to the likely less beneficial CPI - a cheap swindle, so how long before the student fees contract is broken to a less beneficial scheme - even swindling those students who have already signed up.

It's easy to see them a few years down the line conniving to say it's ok to change the "hard wired" tuition fee deal and trying to alter those "hard wired" contracted arrangements

Edited by billybong

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I was thinking something similar last night; I don't know how a lot of the students will actually pay off the debt at all (unless inflation flitters it away). It appears to be another can-kicking policy; sell the long term future down the road and put fingers in the ears when anyone suggests looking 30 years down the road.

mmmm lets see

No payment up front

Spread your payment over 30 years (what then if it's still outstanding?)

No payment required until you're earning over £21k (we will just keep adding on the 2% above interest instead)

And even then, you'll only be paying £35 a month!

So boys and girls, how long do we think it will take to pay back £45k with 2.7% of your monthly take home pay (compounding interest)?!?

Because, we all know paying LESS over a much LONGER payment period is cheaper and more progressive than the present system?!?!

Call me Dave? Sub-Prime Dave more like, most of these poor saps will never be able to afford to pay the debt off.

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Can't say if the banks are behind it, but it is the ultimate evolution.

Universities used to be a place for great minds and liberal thought.

Now they are factories for industry and commerce.

As such it is a natural evolution for those industries to assume control of them. This means that their cost and support will be moved away from the public purse and into private hands.

The driver for this, imv, is not the banks. It is intellectual property law and the world trade agreement.

Edited by Toto deVeer

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So boys and girls, how long do we think it will take to pay back £45k with 2.7% of your monthly take home pay (compounding interest)?!?

I calculated that if the interest is RPI + 2.2% (couldn't see it stated anywhere what the suggested measure of inflation was) that someone would need to be earning £50k+ before they started doing more than paying off the accumulating interest (unless they overpaid it).

Call me Dave? Sub-Prime Dave more like, most of these poor saps will never be able to afford to pay the debt off.

Sub-Prime Dave! :lol: It'll just be a new sub-prime loan default time-bomb for a future government.

Edited by rented

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Could the banks conceivably be behind the rise in tuition fees?

Force half the population into debt at an early age and they are beholden to the banks for years.

Get them used to the idea of borrowing as an "investment for the future".

I'm of an era when going to uni was free and you got a grant to go.

I've now paid for that many times over in higher rate taxes.

It seems they now prefer to give the lending/repayment to the banks rather than the government making the investment.

The UK is going nowhere...fast.

You would have thought that businesses would have an interest in making sure potential employees have the skills they want, hence apprenticeships and so on.

Instead it now appears that businesses simply want to externalise such costs to the government, who then contract out the funding to other businesses who can lend the money and collect interest on it. Meanwhile employers can get their pick from the global graduate pool. Nice.

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Private Eye had an recent article on this. There are a number of private education "providers" from the UK and especially the US, who are champing at the bit to get access to the running of UK universities. The govt policy of upping fees and making Unis chase the student's cash means the privatisation of the Uni system in the UK. There wil be fat profits for these businesses. For the students, only debt.

PS. The PE article had quotes from US authorities stating that the education standards went DOWN in many cases where these companies had control.... :ph34r:

It's pretty logical when you think about it.

If you are personally paying £27k to go to uni, you are going to be VERY wary of doing a degree you might fail. So any non-elite uni is going to be under huge pressure to drop standards to attract students.

US graduates were something of a running joke in that you'd get them over as postgrads with apparently superb marks, only to find that they'd never written an essay or done basic problem solving, just done automatically marked multiple choice papers.

If there is an agenda, then it's to make sure that the children of the upper classes have an even easier time getting into Oxbridge, with a few loudly-trumpeted commoners getting through all the hoops to keep up appearances. The middle classes will be directed to the redbricks, but sufficiently weighed down with debt (and lower standards) so that they have little chance of competing for the top jobs. And the lower half will be suitably deterred by the size of the fees and not bother, apart from a few very talented/lucky ones. Basically, it'll be like the US, with a de-facto class system that no one will admit exists.

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At least it's progressive :rolleyes: . Politicians are going on a use the meaningless word progressive fest today in the approach to the vote. If they've used it once they must have used it 100 times already.

LibDems saying it's progressive to triple fees and before the election the LibDems would have said it was progressive to scrap fees.

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Yep, student loans are all about training young Party members to be in debt, and nothing to do with saving money. I've said this ever since they brought in loans at first.

Young people should actually refuse to go. They should realise that there is no reason for them to get up to their ears in debt just so the goverment can park them there and off their books.

They should take a lesson from their peers and hang around the streets drinking cider. They will get paid for that.

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If you are personally paying £27k to go to uni, you are going to be VERY wary of doing a degree you might fail. So any non-elite uni is going to be under huge pressure to drop standards to attract students.

Having been teaching at a non-elite uni at the time tuition fees were first introduced, I can attest to the fact that such pressure existed long before there was any talk of fees at £9k.

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....thought that was the point....after a certain point it is written off .... :rolleyes:

So if 400,000 youngsters enter university education each year AND each averages 30K of debt when they finish, in 30 years time, what do you think the writedowns per year will be on this debt!??? Anyone care to hazzard a guess?

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mmmm lets see

No payment up front

Spread your payment over 30 years (what then if it's still outstanding?)

No payment required until you're earning over £21k (we will just keep adding on the 2% above interest instead)

And even then, you'll only be paying £35 a month!

So boys and girls, how long do we think it will take to pay back £45k with 2.7% of your monthly take home pay (compounding interest)?!?

Because, we all know paying LESS over a much LONGER payment period is cheaper and more progressive than the present system?!?!

Call me Dave? Sub-Prime Dave more like, most of these poor saps will never be able to afford to pay the debt off.

Which is why it is essentially a graduate tax.

If the debt accumulated is too high for 90%+ of students to ever pay off then they are effectively just paying an incremental income tax their entire lives.

They should just put the fees at £50k per annum to satisfy the balance sheets of the insolvent universities. It sounds like the tuition fee is effectively an arbitrary number anyway. Or have I misunderstood how the repayment schedule works?

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I calculated that if the interest is RPI + 2.2% (couldn't see it stated anywhere what the suggested measure of inflation was) that someone would need to be earning £50k+ before they started doing more than paying off the accumulating interest (unless they overpaid it).

Why has no one in the media mentioned this?!?

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The increase in tuition fees is a good thing:

Firstly it makes universities accountable to the clients and should lead to the end of many crazy degrees which are based on a consumptive and inflationary economy.

Students know have to think long and hard about wether the courses they are doing will actually enhance their income potential in the future rather than running up debt on a good piss up.

Businesses might have to get off their ars*s and fund the gap themselves. They have had a free ride for years manipulating tax payers money to provide more and more inflationary and consumptive graduates instead of productive and wealth creating engineers etc.

Essentially its a shame that the system has got to where it is but the state and the universities themselves that have got us to where we are by devaluing degrees and offering some shoddy courses with no real attention paid to the outome of graduating and finding meanful employment.

I personally would be happy to pay for the education at degree level of scientists and engineers and wealth creators with some caveats that they create wealth and don't bug*er off to some quant fund.

I have no wish to pay for the education of lawyers media pr and marketing people from the busted inflationary consumptive economy.

I think this legislation will save many many young people from being able to get themselves in debt to obtain a worthless degree offering little hope of anything better than a Mcjob at the end..

BTW we all know that doubling the number of graduates was simply a way of masking the appaling youth unemployment in the UK as our politicians continue to allow mercantilist China to hollow out our economies whilst we pretend its not happening by taking on increasing levels of debt and mistaking it for wealth - buts thats another matter.

As we sail to the bottom of the science and engineering league tables its a mystery why so many economists still believe we have an output gap in this country, unless of course they believe we will carry on with a consumptive economy not sure whose going to fund it though but we've got plenty of idle marketing bods and more graduating next summer..

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Could the banks conceivably be behind the rise in tuition fees?

Force half the population into debt at an early age and they are beholden to the banks for years.

Get them used to the idea of borrowing as an "investment for the future".

I'm of an era when going to uni was free and you got a grant to go.

I've now paid for that many times over in higher rate taxes.

It seems they now prefer to give the lending/repayment to the banks rather than the government making the investment.

The UK is going nowhere...fast.

No, they're not.

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I personally would be happy to pay for the education at degree level of scientists and engineers and wealth creators with some caveats that they create wealth and don't bug*er off to some quant fund.

I have no wish to pay for the education of lawyers media pr and marketing people from the busted inflationary consumptive economy.

I have no wish to pay for any of their education, but am happy to pay for valuable services they may be able to offer in the future.

It is for them to decide whether the benefits to them of acquiring this knowledge outweighs the costs. This is why this will have zerio impact on the availability of all the graduates that we have any need of, and a massive reduction in Media Studies and Flower Arrangement degrees.

It seems the massed ranks of the NUS believe these benefits do not outweigh the costs, which begs the question why they think I would want to pay for them.

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The increase in tuition fees is a good thing:

Firstly it makes universities accountable to the clients and should lead to the end of many crazy degrees which are based on a consumptive and inflationary economy.

Universities have clients?

I personally think that the system has been stupidly over-expanded, to the detriment of many 'new universities', and that a lot of BoS courses should be scrapped. But the whole mindset of students being 'consumers' of education - or that the purpose of universities should be to churn out suitable trained drones for particular needs in industry - is just wrong. There's more to education than that, even if that 'more' is hard to quantify.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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