Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Red Baron

The Uk Economy - The Truth

Recommended Posts

Today's UK economy resembles a table tottering on three broken legs.

It is based on little more than selling each other our homes at ever more inflated prices, and an extended credit card binge on imported goods from China and elsewhere. The creation of 'real' wealth, by the production of goods and services that we can sell to the rest of the world, has been sacrificed on the altar of a self indulgent, debt-fuelled, spending spree that must be the biggest and longest in this country's history. Meanwhile the new service industries, those trumpeted by Thatcher as the future for the UK, wither and migrate overseas to well educated but lower paid workers.

I think the UK is in for a grim few years when this unsustainable bubble finally implodes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree, and whilst the central bankers sat by and have watched inflation in nearly every essential rocket, a growing propertion of the real economy has been rotting from the inside and has been exported due to the corrosive effect of increased costs.

70 empty shops in my local city, business rates/insurance/bills are crippling them - not even debt funded expenditure can save them, just like it won't for the rest of the economy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its happening.

My favourite tirade on here is the innevitable failure of any debt based economy.

The recession has been here for years..

But kindly souls reached for their credit cards.. and their mortgage equity release..

Okay.. How many people have you seen driving around in cars costing more then they make in a year..?

your house is meant to be 3.5 times your salary for the economy to be sustainable.

How can a car make up over 1 times your salary..

approach a nice man in a bank.. and spread those car payments over 25 years..

Morrons, in a morronice society..

And the Economy and its trade failed while we partied..

Isn't this what happened to rome.??

Edited by apom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Chris,

Damn, just penned a long reply - and then crash.

Basically - a lot of shops in heavily retail areas and a lot owned by council, so no very little conversion and very little incentive to get them filled whilst you can cream exhorbitent rents from the rest + business rates. For local shoopers it is cheaper to drive 10 miles in the opposite direction - which is exactly what a lot are doing, the shops are getting the same anyway with the spread of the retail chains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Okay.. How many people have you seen driving around in cars costing more then they make in a year..?

Yep, see it all the time. Only some of them brag about how high their payment is, (at least Americans do, not sure about you guys). Like being up to your eyeballs in debt is something to brag about. B)

Then they go on to call me cheap.

Edited by Karen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yep, see it all the time. Only some of them brag about how high their payment is, (at least Americans do, not sure about you guys). Like being up to your eyeballs in debt is something to brag about.  B)

Then they go on to call me cheap.

I actually had someone leaning agaisnt their BMW looking proud and asked me what I thought the difference between his car and mine was..

I leant against my decade old Alfa... and replied that I had paid for mine already..

He then made prostations about how his house was worth so much that he could free some to be able to have any car he wanted..

I asked him if there was a time he wouldn't own his home..

He said no.. there was no reason to sell..

I then asked him if buying a car over 25 years of repayment was debt..?

Didn't mention prices dropping.. for houses.. wasn't needed.. just wanted to point out that ..

well he was a prat..

Mewers.. The new rich.. The soon to be poor..

Whatever happens his car is only getting older.. and best case scenario he will be paying for it for 25 years.. long after it resides in a scrap yard.. long after many others have owned and enjoyed it..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
''Today's UK economy resembles a table tottering on three broken legs.''

True but Gordon will tell you that all the Public Services are booming e.g. hospitals, schools, council offices -all the organisations that employ KEY WORKERS

- i.e. a collection of unproductive individuals.

Meanwhile the workers who earn genuine revenue for the country whether it be in

invisible exports such as banking/insurance or manufacturing are mostly losing their final salary pension schemes and working for less money than 10 years ago !!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...Gordon will tell you that all the Public Services are booming e.g. hospitals, schools, council offices -all the organisations that employ KEY WORKERS

- i.e. a collection of unproductive individuals.

oh please let's not wheel this one out again. key workers in the main are very productive individuals and do a valuable job for a pittance.

Edited by farmerdring

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a pittance?

not according to the government's own figures showing there paid more now than the prvt sector.

not forgetting the retire at 55 on 3/4 pay

i can only dream of that and i pay taxes to pay there wages

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its happening.

My favourite tirade on here is the innevitable failure of any debt based economy.

The recession has been here for years..

Debt based economies aren't necessarily doomed to failure!

a little bit of debt to gain extra productivity is good and useful.

what we have is debt to buy tat we don't really need.Labour have done a classic MEW!....spend it on council workers and extra public servants(who the taxpayer pay for anyway)...it ain't productive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what we have is debt to buy tat we don't really need.Labour have done a classic MEW!....spend it on council workers and extra public servants(who the taxpayer pay for anyway)...it ain't productive.

Indeed, past binges at least added longterm value, like vast investment in infrastructure, when they flogged off the electricity grids, gas, water, telecoms network in the 80's they were pretty much unchanged since the 50's and 60's. BT was sold off partly because the government didn't want to pay for digitisation of exchanges.

In the 60's the splurge went on Motorways, power stations (nuclear and otherwise), chemical factories, refinaries, military aircraft, new towns and vast capital investment. We even got the Concorde.

That's a lot cooler than paying for somebody's gold plated superannuated unfunded pension, which then gets spent on unproductive assets like houses.

We bankrupted ourself and had to beg the IMF but at least we ended up with some cool shit that remains in use and taken for granted to this very day. We're living off 50 year old infrastructure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
''Today's UK economy resembles a table tottering on three broken legs.''

True but Gordon will tell you that all the Public Services are booming e.g. hospitals, schools, council offices -all the organisations that employ KEY WORKERS

- i.e. a collection of unproductive individuals.

Meanwhile the workers who earn genuine revenue for the country whether it be in

invisible exports such as banking/insurance or manufacturing are mostly losing their final salary pension schemes and working for less money than 10 years ago !!!

"- i.e. a collection of unproductive individuals." - that's a pretty sweeping generalisation you've got there. I take your point about the imbalance between the final salary public sector pensions and private sector pensions. But not all public workers are unproductive. Nurses, doctors, teachers, police, firemen etc. Most of them work very hard, and do jobs which are absolutely essential. Now, whether we get value for money in the way in which the money is raised to pay for the public sector is a debate as old as the hills, but you surely cannot be seriously suggesting that all these people are unproductive? If so, then I suggest you go and have a look how hard some of them work, and how low some of their salaries are. Most of them can only afford to live anywhere near where they work because they have partners in the private sector.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new NHS consultants contract alone could bankrupt the country. My father is a hospital doctor and his pay has almost doubled in recent years to £140,000pa (excl. private work).

I'm happy for him because he works extremely hard, but he is a typical clueless Guardian reading Old Labour man. I have to pull him up whenever he complains about 'fat cats' and remind him that his final salary pension could be worth 1.5 million pounds if he lives as long as his dad did.

Who the hell is going to be paying for that?! :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Time 2 raise Interest Rates

cityspy@standard.co.uk.

BBC economics reporter Flanders can expect to be crossed off Gordon Brown's

Christmas card list. She will present a Panorama on 25 September that questions

his economic management. "In the country as a whole, exports have done badly,"

say the programme notes. "The trade gap has worsened every year since

Labour has been in office. Stephanie finds as she travels the country that spending

and borrowing have filled the gap-thanks to cheap money and cheap Asian imports.

Sounds like a good one to watch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest struthitsruth
The new NHS consultants contract alone could bankrupt the country. My father is a hospital doctor and his pay has almost doubled in recent years to £140,000pa (excl. private work).

"The NHS is the third largest employer in the world. In England and Wales over 10,000 employers employ around 1.3 million people. This is around one in every 40 people, or 2.5% of the population, working for the NHS."

http://www.nhsemployers.org/PayAndConditio...and_figures.asp

. . . . . that'll be quite a few consultants then.

. . . . . that'll be a lot of taxation then.

:unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"- i.e. a collection of unproductive individuals." - that's a pretty sweeping generalisation you've got there. I take your point about the imbalance between the final salary public sector pensions and private sector pensions. But not all public workers are unproductive. Nurses, doctors, teachers, police, firemen etc. Most of them work very hard, and do jobs which are absolutely essential. Now, whether we get value for money in the way in which the money is raised to pay for the public sector is a debate as old as the hills, but you surely cannot be seriously suggesting that all these people are unproductive? If so, then I suggest you go and have a look how hard some of them work, and how low some of their salaries are. Most of them can only afford to live anywhere near where they work because they have partners in the private sector.

i agree.

i wonder if our friend could be a nurse?

-train for three years on a demeaning and crippling low bursary.

-only to then constantly have to re-educate and develop skills

-care for sick people at every stage with compassion and understanding.

-deal with devastated relatives begging you not to let their son / daughter etc die and deal with bereavement (nurses don't always get to pass on good news to families)

-work demanding shift patterns

-retirement at 65 and not before (that is the truth mr!)

all for the grand sum of £18000 - £19500 per year at grade D - E ?

i doubt it. he / she wouldn't get out of bed for that.

these are a very special breed of people we hire.

nurses and policemen (front line uniformed i am talking about) get my total support. i wish we could pay them more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Today's UK economy resembles a table tottering on three broken legs.

I agree with much of what you say. We have lived beyond our means and must pay at some point. But even allowing for rhetorical exaggeration, aren't you getting a bit carried away?

The UK still has the world's 4th largest economy - not bad for a country that has been in decline for 150 years and has a limited manufacturing industry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"The NHS is the third largest employer in the world. In England and Wales over 10,000 employers employ around 1.3 million people. This is around one in every 40 people, or 2.5% of the population, working for the NHS."

http://www.nhsemployers.org/PayAndConditio...and_figures.asp

. . . . . that'll be quite a few consultants then.

. . . . . that'll be a lot of taxation then.

:unsure:

these are staggering figures.

your one in every forty people, is that of the working population or of the whole?

i don't understand why some of the salaries are so high i admit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest struthitsruth
these are staggering figures.

your one in every forty people, is that of the working population or of the whole?

i don't understand why some of the salaries are so high i admit.

the figures come from the links shown.

http://www.nhsemployers.org/PayAndConditio...and_figures.asp

also -

http://www.nhsjobs.com/?fs9005=2644af790f5...dd3c29b0bf91e6e

"Working in the NHS

With over a million staff the National Health Service is the largest employer in Europe and has vacancies across the UK for nurses, doctors, physiotherapists, clinical scientists, administrators and support staff, plus a vast range of other allied health professionals and other specialist personnel.

In England the NHS is organised into Acute, Primary and Mental Health (often called Partnership) Trusts. In some areas Partnership Trusts have linked up with Social Services Departments to form Care Trusts. There is also a range of specialist and support organisations such as Strategic Health Authorities. In total there are over 600 separate organisations in England."

It's BIG isn't it ?

A lot of employees working and paying income taxes, a lot of employees to fund in retirement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A lot of employees working and paying income taxes, a lot of employees to fund in retirement.

True, but where does the money come from to begin with? <_<

Take one full glass of water and one empty glass, pour full glass into empty glass, then pour 20% back into main glass. Repeat as necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest struthitsruth
True, but where does the money come from to begin with?  <_<

Take one full glass of water and one empty glass, pour full glass into empty glass, then pour 20% back into main glass. Repeat as necessary.

is that a paraphrasing of the following ?

"Average retirement age for all NHS staff has reduced over the decade by around half a year to about 62. For this group, the average time that pensions are expected to be in payment after people stop work has risen from about 21 years a decade ago to about 24 years currently. It is expected that the pensions of today’s new entrants will be in payment for 26 years. "

:(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the figures come from the links shown.

http://www.nhsemployers.org/PayAndConditio...and_figures.asp

also -

http://www.nhsjobs.com/?fs9005=2644af790f5...dd3c29b0bf91e6e

"Working in the NHS

With over a million staff the National Health Service is the largest employer in Europe and has vacancies across the UK for nurses, doctors, physiotherapists, clinical scientists, administrators and support staff, plus a vast range of other allied health professionals and other specialist personnel.

In England the NHS is organised into Acute, Primary and Mental Health (often called Partnership) Trusts. In some areas Partnership Trusts have linked up with Social Services Departments to form Care Trusts. There is also a range of specialist and support organisations such as Strategic Health Authorities. In total there are over 600 separate organisations in England."

It's BIG  isn't it ?

A lot of employees working and paying income taxes, a lot of employees to fund in retirement.

it certainly is BIG. thanks for enlightening me as to how so.

i've made my position clear - i.e that i support the front liners although i have less faith in the system at higher level.

so what do you make of it, clearly the scale of the public sector disturns you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 301 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.