'britain Is Totally Insolvent'

[cashinmattress]

Link

US speculator Jim Rogers is known for his outspoken views but today went further than usual suggesting Britain is 'totally insolvent'.

In an interview on business TV channel CNBC, Rogers, who made his name making millions while partnered with legendary financier George Soros, suggested Britain was the true sick man of Europe.

He said: 'Greece is insolvent, Portugal has a liquidity problem, Spain has a liquidity problem, Belgium has been cooking the books for a long time, Italy has been cooking the books for a long time and the UK is totally insolvent.'

Rogers, who has repeatedly warned that inflation and commodity prices will race ahead in coming years, was being interviewed about the next stage of the European debt crisis.

So far Greece and Ireland, with bond markets indicating their fears that the governments will not repay debts, have had to ask for bailouts from the European Union. Debts in Spain are far lower but rising rapidly, sparking concerns that it, as the euro zone's fourth largest economy, may also run into trouble.

Rogers said: 'You need to let Ireland go bankrupt. They are bankrupt, why should innocent Germans, Poles or anybody pay for mistakes made by Irish politicians and banks.'

Rogers has been criticised for making attention-grabbing remarks. But his views are not entirely without basis.

While debt owed by the British government is less, relatively, than the amounts faced by Ireland, Greece or Japan, the UK's debts in total are 466% of annual economic output once consumer debt is included. That's second only to Japan.

Britain has so far escaped the wrath of bond markets, partly because it is has particularly long dates on its gilts, reducing the need to keep asking for more money, but also because of the belief that the large and efficient British economy will deliver strong growth that will produce rising tax receipts to pay of government debt and rising incomes to pay off consumer debt.

But Rogers has previously raised concerns that with North Sea oil nearing the end of its useful life, Britain has 'nothing left to sell'.

Rogers will also find sympathy for his opposition to quantitative easing. He believes the Federal Reserve's latest $600bn programme will stoke inflation and create financial misery for millions.

'It's dumbfounding and stupefying to me that you have a central bank in the United States that thinks that all it needs to do is print money,' he said. That has never worked, never worked anywhere in the world in the long-term or the medium-term.'

Hmm.

[OnlyMe]

'It's dumbfounding and stupefying to me that you have a central bank in the United States that thinks that all it needs to do is print money,' he said. That has never worked, never worked anywhere in the world in the long-term or the medium-term.'

Got one of those in the UK too, that is why we are so far up shit street in regards debt.

[Kilham]

Britain has 'nothing left to sell'

Not true, we're flogging a couple of old aircraft carriers. They'll be on UKPLCs ebay account soon - maybe they'll give us a 'Gold Seller' rating.

[Guest The Relaxation Suite]

Link

Hmm.

I have watched Rogers change his opinions in a heartbeat, especially on the future of the USD. This time I happen to agree with him, because facts are facts, but his word is not gospel.

[The Eagle]

Rogers said: 'You need to let Ireland go bankrupt. They are bankrupt,why should innocent Germans, Poles or anybody pay for mistakes made byIrish politicians and banks.'

He is forgetting to say that it's really Germans, Poles, etc paying the German, British, etc, banks who own all the Irish debt.

Greece, Ireland, etc. are just excuses for the global banksters to extort more money out of common people.

(which wouldn't be possible if Ireland or Greece were allowed to go bust).

--

Edited December 8, 2010 by wise_eagle

['Bart']

I have watched Rogers change his opinions in a heartbeat, especially on the future of the USD. This time I happen to agree with him, because facts are facts, but his word is not gospel.

In all the YouTube videos I've watched, he's been pretty bearish on both the dollar and the pound, although I think he's emancipated dollar revivals in the short term. Which do happen from time to time.

[Misanthrope]

The interview with Rogers on CNBC:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1687065072&play=1

[interestrateripoff]

I would slightly disagree I think many nations are in fact insolvent not just the UK.

Surely the sick man of the globe is Japan by his own logic and a Japanese implosion because of the carry trade would be a nightmare.

[200p]

We have world class pen pushers. Surely can we not franchise this off to other countries?

[DungBeetle]

Jim Rogers does talk some sh1te. It is hard to know, as I cannot dial out the whining.

[tomwatkins]

Jim Rogers does talk some sh1te. It is hard to know, as I cannot dial out the whining.

Rogers is a self-serving mouthpiece. He talks his book like the Black Swan geezer. To my mind there is that much money swilling around, and that much linkeage between central banks and countries (inter debt as in Ireland) that the "market" can do what ever it wants collectively. If they wanted to collude and wipe out somebody like Rogers they could do. If I were him I would keep my head down for a while. The days when a Soros could take down the UK are long gone. On the outside maybe a Sovereign Wealth Fund but nowt else. With his immense wealth (or what is the true picture?) Rogers has no chance.

[Realistbear]

Jimbo bet against the $ and did not see the Euro fall or Sterling dumping 25% in the past 18 months. He is no George Soros depsite their partnership.

The UK has an impregnable bond rating, the highest house prices in the world earnings related, high employment, surging factory output, highly valued currency that has been appreciating vs. both the Euro and $ and no fallout from the Brown years.

Jimbo has no understanding of economics as he overlooks Keynes basic rule: nations cannot be insolvent. They hide their debt and issue bonds and convince simple folk at the IMF that the outlook is positive. This in turn fuels bonds which allows IR to remain low which in turn sustains HPI and on and on this country goes...............................

[The Eagle]

The UK has an impregnable bond rating, the highest house prices in the world earnings related, high employment, surging factory output, highly valued currency that has been appreciating vs. both the Euro and $ and no fallout from the Brown years.

That's a good one, I never knew Realistbear could be so funny!

[Democorruptcy]

Jim Rogers Jan 2009:

I would urge you to sell any sterling you might have,” Mr Rogers advised his army of investment followers. “It's finished. I hate to say it, but I would not put any money in the UK.”

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article5555898.ece

In the article he didn't say what to buy with the sterling but since Jan 2009 sterling is +7.8% v US Dollar and +12.5% v Euro.

[Toto deVeer]

Jimbo bet against the $ and did not see the Euro fall or Sterling dumping 25% in the past 18 months. He is no George Soros depsite their partnership.

The UK has an impregnable bond rating, the highest house prices in the world earnings related, high employment, surging factory output, highly valued currency that has been appreciating vs. both the Euro and $ and no fallout from the Brown years.

Jimbo has no understanding of economics as he overlooks Keynes basic rule: nations cannot be insolvent. They hide their debt and issue bonds and convince simple folk at the IMF that the outlook is positive. This in turn fuels bonds which allows IR to remain low which in turn sustains HPI and on and on this country goes...............................

Britain will not become insolvent simply because Ben Bernanke does not want it to happen...

[Realistbear]

Jim Rogers Jan 2009:

I would urge you to sell any sterling you might have,” Mr Rogers advised his army of investment followers. “It's finished. I hate to say it, but I would not put any money in the UK.”

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article5555898.ece

In the article he didn't say what to buy with the sterling but since Jan 2009 sterling is +7.8% v US Dollar and +12.5% v Euro.

The new reality.

Not only that but the IMF recently upgraded our "negative outlook" to something more positive. Services sector is growing rapidly, factory output is rising, employment is stable to positive and house prices are dropping by tiny amounts. I am sorry but these drops of 0.2% don't cut the mustard.

Come back Brown all is forgiven?

[Lepista]

...Jimbo has no understanding of economics...

Pot calling kettle... Come in Kettle.

[Si1]

UK's debts in total are 466% of annual economic output once consumer debt is included. That's second only to Japan.

indeed, but it is consumer debt, not corporate or govt debt

individuals have to pay this, I do not (providing I protect myself from inflation)

these people are hamsters on the wheel for the next 20 years working at the companies paying the dividends on my FTSE shares, basically paying off mortgages and credit cards

We were at 500%+ in 1946, so we will cope again with an era of austerity the debt isn't especially high, and of course we are not suffering from a post war Keynsian concensus right now - this time you can side-step the problems by simply not being a debtor,

I remember seeing similar stats in the Economist, and the opinion was more upbeat, over a period of multiple decades - the basic issue is that we have an opportunity to revise our outdated public services and economy, which has a much bigger impact than debt alone

and of course we are devaluing the pound

[Si1]

Come back Brown all is forgiven?

I hate to have to say this but Brown deserves credit for at least 2 things:

(1) not entering the euro

(2) not dismantling Thatcher's workforce-legislation

however, we don't need gordo back to continue that

[Bloo Loo]

indeed, but it is consumer debt, not corporate or govt debt

individuals have to pay this, I do not (providing I protect myself from inflation)

these people are hamsters on the wheel for the next 20 years working at the companies paying the dividends on my FTSE shares, basically paying off mortgages and credit cards

We were at 500%+ in 1946, so we will cope again with an era of austerity the debt isn't especially high, and of course we are not suffering from a post war Keynsian concensus right now - this time you can side-step the problems by simply not being a debtor,

I remember seeing similar stats in the Economist, and the opinion was more upbeat, over a period of multiple decades - the basic issue is that we have an opportunity to revise our outdated public services and economy, which has a much bigger impact than debt alone

and of course we are devaluing the pound

that was 500% on a huge private sector and relatively small government, with a fast decreasing and repatriation of ex-services.

today we have Huge Public sector that without increasing this sector, the GDP itself is falling.

and while they are increasing public borrowing, so the debt increases and the GDP:debt ratio just gets worse.

[Si1]

today we have Huge Public sector that without increasing this sector, the GDP itself is falling.

this demonstrably isn't the case, however it does look like slow growth for next decade

and while they are increasing public borrowing, so the debt increases and the GDP:debt ratio just gets worse.

well yes but not that much

[Realistbear]

Pot calling kettle... Come in Kettle.

He sold the $ just before the Euro and £ tanked. He was negative on US bonds while they had their biggest rally in history.

I hold $ and only recently sold a heavy investment in US bonds.

If only Jimbo wasn't such a fool.

[Realistbear]

I hate to have to say this but Brown deserves credit for at least 2 things:

(1) not entering the euro

(2) not dismantling Thatcher's workforce-legislation

however, we don't need gordo back to continue that

And not entering the Euro was Churchillian in its effect. I used to think the man was an utter fool because I saw everything through HPC glasses. But if we accept this country has weathered the storm BETTER than any of our peers I don't think a knighthood would go amiss.

[tallguy]

Britain is indeed totally insolvent.

Noth Sea Oil revenue is drying up and, apart from importing parts and assembling them with a "Made In Britain" badge slapped on them, we don't have a manufacturing base anymore. In any event, the things we do "manufacture" tend to be the higher-end items as the essential consumer items can be assembled much cheaper elsewhere (Chindia et al). As things stand in the world economy, the only things that the rest the world's consumers are going to be wanting in the coming period are essentials anyway.

We can't go it alone. We don't have anything to sell and we owe far more than we are owed.

In addition to all of the above, we are so overcrowded we couldn't even feed ourselves anymore if push came to shove.

Edited December 8, 2010 by tallguy

[Toto deVeer]

Britain is indeed totally insolvent.

Noth Sea Oil revenue is drying up and, apart from importing parts and assembling them with a "Made In Britain" badge slapped on them, we don't have a manufacturing base anymore. In any event, the things we do "manufacture" tend to be the higher-end items as the essential consumer items can be assembled much cheaper elsewhere (Chindia et al). As things stand in the world economy, the only things that the rest the world's consumers are going to be wanting in the coming period are essentials anyway.

We can't go it alone. We don't have anything to sell and we owe far more than we are owed.

In addition to all of the above, we are so overcrowded we couldn't even feed ourselves anymore if push came to shove.

But Britain is at the nexus of the global banking empire. The recent revelations of Federal Reserve transactions in 2008 ($12.3 trillion) confirms this. American mega-banks see the City as the place to be, for international ponzi operations.

And never have the banks been so awash with liquidity, for free.