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LuckyOne

Depressing Reading .....

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http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/34/60/46619703.pdf

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8185919/UK-schools-fall-behind-Estonia-and-Slovenia-says-OECD.html

This makes for quite depressing reading.

It seems that the size of the administrative burden within the education system is inversely correlated to the academic success of students.

The Labour legacy means that our youngsters are dropping down the league table of academic success in a world where knowledge and the ability to use it is becoming increasingly critical.

It seems that we are getting very poor value for money.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_edu_spe-education-spending-of-gdp

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http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/34/60/46619703.pdf

url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8185919/UK-schools-fall-behind-Estonia-and-Slovenia-says-OECD.html"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8185919/UK-schools-fall-behind-Estonia-and-Slovenia-says-OECD.html[/url]

This makes for quite depressing reading.

It seems that the size of the administrative burden within the education system is inversely correlated to the academic success of students.

The Labour legacy means that our youngsters are dropping down the league table of academic success in a world where knowledge and the ability to use it is becoming increasingly critical.

It seems that we are getting very poor value for money.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_edu_spe-education-spending-of-gdp

making degrees available to everybody devalues the product and costs alot of money. No surprise then that having a "university for all" policy puts students in debt, makes degrees as worthless as toilet paper, and utterly fails to achieve the objective of bringing the most talented minds to the forefront of technology.

What it does do, though, is ensure that the minds with the best backing (in terms of money) get to go to the best universities.

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http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/34/60/46619703.pdf

url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8185919/UK-schools-fall-behind-Estonia-and-Slovenia-says-OECD.html"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8185919/UK-schools-fall-behind-Estonia-and-Slovenia-says-OECD.html[/url]

This makes for quite depressing reading.

It seems that the size of the administrative burden within the education system is inversely correlated to the academic success of students.

The Labour legacy means that our youngsters are dropping down the league table of academic success in a world where knowledge and the ability to use it is becoming increasingly critical.

It seems that we are getting very poor value for money.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_edu_spe-education-spending-of-gdp

They are getting what there paying for, logic alone would tell you that if this wasn't the end product they desired, they would change it.

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http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/34/60/46619703.pdf

url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8185919/UK-schools-fall-behind-Estonia-and-Slovenia-says-OECD.html"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8185919/UK-schools-fall-behind-Estonia-and-Slovenia-says-OECD.html[/url]

This makes for quite depressing reading.

It seems that the size of the administrative burden within the education system is inversely correlated to the academic success of students.

The Labour legacy means that our youngsters are dropping down the league table of academic success in a world where knowledge and the ability to use it is becoming increasingly critical.

It seems that we are getting very poor value for money.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_edu_spe-education-spending-of-gdp

Yes but boxes are being ticked ultimately in a bureaucracy that's all that counts. Has the box been ticked? If yes we are doing a great job the ticked box says so.

If the answer is no the box isn't ticked, clearly this needs to be investigated at great expense so that in future it can be ticked to ensure we are doing a great job, and clearly the newly ticked boxed indicates that performance of box ticking has increased.

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http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/34/60/46619703.pdf

url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8185919/UK-schools-fall-behind-Estonia-and-Slovenia-says-OECD.html"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8185919/UK-schools-fall-behind-Estonia-and-Slovenia-says-OECD.html[/url]

This makes for quite depressing reading.

It seems that the size of the administrative burden within the education system is inversely correlated to the academic success of students.

The Labour legacy means that our youngsters are dropping down the league table of academic success in a world where knowledge and the ability to use it is becoming increasingly critical.

It seems that we are getting very poor value for money.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_edu_spe-education-spending-of-gdp

i noticed in the article

The study – based on independent tests sat by more than 500,000 schoolchildren – also showed:

Thats your problem these sort of tests dont mean anything, you get a far better idea by looking at this sort of stuff which is properly regulated to ensure quality

23 years in a row man, wheres your problem

Nothing to see here

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http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/34/60/46619703.pdf

url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8185919/UK-schools-fall-behind-Estonia-and-Slovenia-says-OECD.html"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8185919/UK-schools-fall-behind-Estonia-and-Slovenia-says-OECD.html[/url]

This makes for quite depressing reading.

It seems that the size of the administrative burden within the education system is inversely correlated to the academic success of students.

The Labour legacy means that our youngsters are dropping down the league table of academic success in a world where knowledge and the ability to use it is becoming increasingly critical.

It seems that we are getting very poor value for money.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_edu_spe-education-spending-of-gdp

Lucky: Education in the UK (and US for that matter) has become indoctrination rather than rational thinking...

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I have been back in the UK about 5 years and am depressed by it all. Depressed I tell ye.

This is not the country I knew back before 1991 which is was before billable hours killed my old profession as a lawyer. Greed and corruption everywhere. 2nd rate everything at first rate prices.

I have had enough and am planning my exit strategy.

No longer tired of waitng, but no longer waiting!

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Where else in the entire world can you get academic recognition for being fluent in Klingon?

It'll come in handy in the 23rd Century.

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I have been back in the UK about 5 years and am depressed by it all. Depressed I tell ye.

This is not the country I knew back before 1991 which is was before billable hours killed my old profession as a lawyer. Greed and corruption everywhere. 2nd rate everything at first rate prices.

I have had enough and am planning my exit strategy.

No longer tired of waitng, but no longer waiting!

Ah, you should have bought gold. We did tell you all about it but you wouldn't listen. Its not too late. cgnao says watch out for a correction, so you might have a chance.....

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Had a funny conversation with a couple of workmates today regarding education (one has a boy working on his uni acceptance) and costs.

I threw out an idea I picked up off these boards from another member about free education for all but much stricter entry criteria for higher entry. And possibly only free on critical subjects i.e. engineering, sciences, maths etc, Not sociology journalism or learning Klingon (really?? :)).

To my surprise these life long lefty labour voters didn't beat me to death and were nodding in agreement. Was a bit speechless actually as I was looking for debate.

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Had a funny conversation with a couple of workmates today regarding education (one has a boy working on his uni acceptance) and costs.

I threw out an idea I picked up off these boards from another member about free education for all but much stricter entry criteria for higher entry. And possibly only free on critical subjects i.e. engineering, sciences, maths etc, Not sociology journalism or learning Klingon (really?? :)).

To my surprise these life long lefty labour voters didn't beat me to death and were nodding in agreement. Was a bit speechless actually as I was looking for debate.

It will be. These subjects are known as STEM subjects, and are subject to different HE funding proposals to the rest of the bands that include social sciences and arts and humanities.

On a wider note (I am an ex-secondary teacher and now work in HE), I have been saying for the last five years that Britain seriously needs to pull its school socks up if it wants even a chance of its youth competing in Europe and on a global level. Some of the European children I have taught in the noughties make British youngsters look like they haven't even left reception class yet -- often English is their third language and they speak and write it more fluently than our own.

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Every year we are told GCSEs and ALevels aren't getting easier.

Though if you took them you knew otherwise. I went on to study Engineering and the whole of the first year we were playing catchup with what ALeves should have taught us. And that was almost 20 years ago. Terrible state of afairs and a bloody disgrace. Might as well buy every kid one of those fake degrees from the internet. It would be cheaper for the country.

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I have been back in the UK about 5 years and am depressed by it all. Depressed I tell ye.

This is not the country I knew back before 1991 which is was before billable hours killed my old profession as a lawyer. Greed and corruption everywhere. 2nd rate everything at first rate prices.

I have had enough and am planning my exit strategy.

No longer tired of waitng, but no longer waiting!

RB: I know how you feel.

I blame finance capitalism. I weaves it's insidious web everywhere it goes. Britain is well under the iron heel. I travel in the middle east too, and within the last 10 years the same has happened in many of (but not all) of those countries.

I noted the decline and take over starting around 2003. Now when I visit my friends there they are concerned about the very same problems we have here. Some of these countries have seen property values rise 400% across the board in the last 10 years. Yep, I blame finance capitalism, driven by the US since 9/11.

Educational standards are dropping in these locations too.

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Interesting that you mention 9 11, that was the trigger for a period of low interest rates that initiated the asset price boom that we have all been suffering from in the west since. I sometimes wonder if the west has been under financial attack since then. If you wanted to destroy the west what would you do? What would that look like? And what was the symbol they chose to destroy on the initiation of the conflict... Symbols of capitalism.

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Interesting that you mention 9 11, that was the trigger for a period of low interest rates that initiated the asset price boom that we have all been suffering from in the west since. I sometimes wonder if the west has been under financial attack since then. If you wanted to destroy the west what would you do? What would that look like? And what was the symbol they chose to destroy on the initiation of the conflict... Symbols of capitalism.

The financial terrorists have done a lot more damage than any other sort cold hope to do, by a factor of ten.

As for univerisities - unversity of bums on seats or university for bums in btl's - it is a close call between the two.

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The financial terrorists have done a lot more damage than any other sort cold hope to do, by a factor of ten.

I believe in capitalism when it is not corrupted. I believe that it is the best of the worst available, because at its heart is accountability.

But I fear Karl Marx was right. imv, Russia and China were historical aberrations. Totalitarian domination in the name of Marx, similar to the central banking domination in the name of Keynes. This is the dual paradigm that straddled the earth for the last 50 years. The non-existent 'left-right' pseudo polarity that in essence was the same paradigm under different names; the domination of humanity by the few.

As time flows the true nature of these two ideologies is being revealed; that China/Russia appear to be moving to capitalism and that the US appears the moving to socialism/communism. In actuality any differences are cultural, not political or ideological. Both are simply domination paradigms.

But now I fear what Marx predicted, the destruction of global surpluses leading to the destruction of capitalism. I fear for the political system that may replace it. It will be about domination again, but a much more severe form of global domination. The US has tried to implement an Aldous Huxley type of system, whereas China has tried to introduce an Orwellian type of system. The ultimate global system that will emerge may be something of both.

If Marx is correct, the system will ultimately collapse, the middle class will disappear, and there will be a war between the haves and have nots. Not a pretty thought.

As for univerisities - unversity of bums on seats or university for bums in btl's - it is a close call between the two.

I attended my son's graduation from Uni. There were hundreds of graduates getting the same degree. This was a part of an all day ceremony passing students across the stage in assembly line fashion. And the 'elders of wisdom' in their robes handing out the power scrolls. Whilst waiting in a packed auditorium we were entertained by University propaganda films. I told my wife I could not bear to watch it and left the room. I don't see the content of these things, I see the intent.

I recently attended another function for parents about another son moving on to GSCE studies. It is clear that the parents all expect their kids to get Uni degrees. The school is actively pushing it, and the parents expect it. It all seems to be part of a great machine. And now the tuition will be approaching £10,000. And my other son and his friends, 9 of them, with top degrees, from top Unis, and firsts cannot find work. There is a qualified barrister working part time at the local authority in the pensions department.

I turned to the person next to me in this meeting and I said "The cost of university is going to soon be approaching £90 to £100 thousand, and there are no jobs. Do these parents realize this? And why is the school misleading these folks? " To which the reply "Oh, its just the same as the early 1980's there were no jobs then either". I said "You got your degree for free then, now these kids are going to be indebted for life". People don't like the to hear the reality.

Industry derides the quality of university education, but still expects every important employee to have a degree. A world has been created where degrees are an essential part of employment, yet the government is now creating an environment where they will be out of reach for most, or create circumstances of perpetual servitude for the best and brightest of society.. The impact of these policies are going to come back on society like a hammer in a few years. It is going to stoke class division the likes of which you cannot imagine. And sitting like a rabbit in the headlights are the middle classes.

And this is by no means restricted to the UK. The same evolution is occurring in the US and the middle east. Again this is the result of finance capitalism. There will be, in a few years, potentially millions of university educated persons either unemployed, partially employed or under employed.

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What's so good about having a job anyway? Is making the entrepreneurial few rich in exchange for some crumbs from the table really something to aspire to? A moral obligation? Who told everyone that? Was it them?

A more educated population without a j.o.b. ... Such a bad thing?

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I believe in capitalism when it is not corrupted.

It is fundamentally corrupted. The very nature of capitalism is to reward the most to those who already have the most, and to encourage any means of doing so.

You mentioned Marx, and at least his concept doesn't have such corruption built into it, they're just impossible to put into practice without a slightly different sort of scum floating to the top.

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It is fundamentally corrupted. The very nature of capitalism is to reward the most to those who already have the most, and to encourage any means of doing so.

You mentioned Marx, and at least his concept doesn't have such corruption built into it, they're just impossible to put into practice without a slightly different sort of scum floating to the top.

Capitalism also has the potential to punish those who have most, the hardest. However, our modern take on capitalism is to socialise the losses to the wealthy, often at a cost to the middle classes, which increases the divide between rich and poor.

Without the risk of failure, capitalism will be corrupted.

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Capitalism also has the potential to punish those who have most, the hardest. However, our modern take on capitalism is to socialise the losses to the wealthy, often at a cost to the middle classes, which increases the divide between rich and poor.

Without the risk of failure, capitalism will be corrupted.

Amen to that. <_<

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Capitalism also has the potential to punish those who have most, the hardest. However, our modern take on capitalism is to socialise the losses to the wealthy, often at a cost to the middle classes, which increases the divide between rich and poor.

Without the risk of failure, capitalism will be corrupted.

By having the most you have the means to arrange things so that someone else takes the hit if you fail. I'm not sure how you can divorce that fact from the process of capitalism and have it uncorrupted. To do so would suggest that you can't spend any of your gains on yourself. How do you prevent someone from using their wealth to secure their position without straying from the capitalist ideals?

A good system takes the best parts of all outlooks. Ours takes the worst.

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http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/34/60/46619703.pdf

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8185919/UK-schools-fall-behind-Estonia-and-Slovenia-says-OECD.html

This makes for quite depressing reading.

It seems that the size of the administrative burden within the education system is inversely correlated to the academic success of students.

The Labour legacy means that our youngsters are dropping down the league table of academic success in a world where knowledge and the ability to use it is becoming increasingly critical.

It seems that we are getting very poor value for money.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_edu_spe-education-spending-of-gdp

Hi there. Important thread, no doubt about it. To be frank, I am kind of glad you started it, because a few weeks back I saw the data below, and even considered posting them here, but I couldn't start a thread, 'cause... we've been having enough (too much?) depressing news in these past years. But you are right, and we have to know / face these things. So, after some more reluctance since your OP... here we go: (Sorry about the bad news people)

United Nations, UNICEF, Innocenti Research Centre

An overview of child well-being in rich countries

A comprehensive assessment of the lives and well-being of children and adolescents in the economically advanced nations

LINK (PDF) : http://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/rc7_eng.pdf

They measured 6 "Dimensions", (at the first page of each "dimension" there is a summarising chart.)

1. Material well-being (pg 4)

2. Health and safety (pg 12)

3. Educational well-being (pg 18)

4. Family and peer relationships (pg 22)

5. Behaviours and risks (pg 26)

6. Subjective well-being (pg34)

At the beginning of the report there is a summarising table overall. This one:

childwellbeingsummary.png

The chart that affected me the most (we are a couple wishing to start a family) was this one:

kindandhelpfullpeers.png

I wish we didn't have to emigrate for the sake of our future children.

The data is almost 10 years old though, but my concern is that things didn't really improved much since, could even have got worse, and it could even be cultural. Or, hopefully, this UNICEF report has a flawed methodology.

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  • 276 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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