The Dispossessed

[apom]

My dad always said that as bad as the conservatives were.. Under Labour you would feel as if they have had it in for you personally.

For the last few years I would certainly concur with that..

But I am having the dawning realisation that it wasn't me. They wanted it to be, but I didn't play the game..

I look at the Economy now.. Look at the debt burden so many are in and count myself Lucky.

Gordon Browns Economic miracle was to convince so many people to spend the country out of recession , and they did that.

Now The recession is coming, the Economic shift is coming.

Yuppies were a conservative creation. But their spending powers paled under comparison to the Mewers.

Their money pumping into the economy delayed the innevitable but created a bubble of debt..

If labour have made a sacrifice of a generation, it was not us.. It was those who have thought us failures and the homeless...

Gordon wanted all of us to join his spending spree.

We didn't...

We are not loosers, we are the Economically aware who look to come out of this better of..

For years we have been treated as a subclass.

chances are many of us felt like a subclass.

We are heading into a recession, a lot of people are going to be crushed by it.

The devils greatest trick was to convince people that he did not exist.

Gordons Greatest trick was to convince so many that they were rich when they werent.

[Bluelady]

Gordon Browns Economic miracle was to convince so many people to spend the country out of recession , and they did that.

Sorry? What recession have people spent the country out of? The worst you could say about Brown is that he inherited a strong economy which seems rapidly to going downhill because he failed to safeguard it.

The government convinced nobody to spend beyond their means, it was their greed that did that.

[Guest wrongmove]

I agree that we are in a credit mess now, but it was the consrvatives that originally loosened credit regulation. What exactly are the tory policies that will improve things? I am not aware that they propose to tighten regulation.

The grass is always greener......

[apom]

The strong pound killed the manufacturing industry by 1999..

I know I worked in it.

Industry is failing, exports are failing..

The Dot Com burst was enough to trigger another.

Interest rates were made low to kick start the economy in 1998

they were edging up in 2000 when september 11th happened.

Working for the airline industry then I saw the area around Gatwick devastated with business failing and people out of work..

Interest rates were made low again..

He then lowered them even more in time for iraq..

Low Interest Rates make us poorer, our savings do not grow..

But they make debt attractive.

When Labour came in we were in £500,000,000,000 of personal debt.

We are now in £1,100,000,000,000 of personal debt.

Now look at the economy over the last 8 years.

Take away £600,000,000,000 of spending and replace it with the normal debt growth.

Take that from the economy and there would have been a recession.

Only.. It was delayed.

The Economy has been built on debt and debt based Economies will always fail.

the Massive redundancies we see posted on the news psoting here and in the media reflect that the borrowing has slowed.

The spending crisis that has materialised in the high street reflects this.

They talk of a recession.

That is because we are no longer borrowing to spend, we are now paying it of.

apart from those of us who didn't join on the fairground ride of shiny lights that led to personal Economic ruin.

The Economy survived events that would have crushed any other.

But only because low interest rates and massivly increased borrowing pumped enough money into the economy to let it survive.

the effects we see now are becasue a debt based economy only delays collapse, but it can't prevent it..

We are seeing years of economic disaster transformed from the orrigianl causes and made into interest payments against over a trillion rpunds worth of debt.

This is Economic fact.

[Bluelady]

We haven't seen massive redundancies yet, compare the number with those made under the Tory government in the early 90s and there are barely any at the moment. I'm not saying there won't be a lot more but it's simply not true to say they're happening at the moment.

While low interest rates may be detrimental in terms of the consumer effect, they are needed by business and industry and surely you'll admit that if business goes down the pan, as sure as night follows day, jobs will follow. It makes me seriously wonder if there should be two interest rates - one for business and one for consumers.

[BringItOn]

The strong pound killed the manufacturing industry by 1999..

I know I worked in it.

Industry is failing, exports are failing..

The Dot Com burst was enough to trigger another.

Interest rates were made low to kick start the economy in 1998

they were edging up in 2000 when september 11th happened.

Working for the airline industry then I saw the area around Gatwick devastated with business failing and people out of work..

Interest rates were made low again..

He then lowered them even more in time for iraq..

Low Interest Rates make us poorer, our savings do not grow..

But they make debt attractive.

When Labour came in we were in £500,000,000,000 of personal debt.

We are now in £1,100,000,000,000 of personal debt.

Now look at the economy over the last 8 years.

Take away £600,000,000,000 of spending and replace it with the normal debt growth.

Take that from the economy and there would have been a recession.

Only.. It was delayed.

The Economy has been built on debt and debt based Economies will always fail.

the Massive redundancies we see posted on the news psoting here and in the media reflect that the borrowing has slowed.

The spending crisis that has materialised in the high street reflects this.

They talk of a recession.

That is because we are no longer borrowing to spend, we are now paying it of.

apart from those of us who didn't join on the fairground ride of shiny lights that led to personal Economic ruin.

The Economy survived events that would have crushed any other.

But only because low interest rates and massivly increased borrowing pumped enough money into the economy to let it survive.

the effects we see now are becasue a debt based economy only delays collapse, but it can't prevent it..

We are seeing years of economic disaster transformed from the orrigianl causes and made into interest payments against over a trillion rpunds worth of debt.

This is Economic fact.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And lets not forget HPI. The feeling of wealth encouraging people to take on more debt because "its ok, if I get into trouble I can always sell the house"

[apom]

Nope.. Low interst rates hurt business..

My company has got loads of money in the bank.. lots.. and doesent get enough interest..

(I work there.. not own..)

so we are fine..

Stop thinking debt is good..

debt is bad..

If you don't think so watch the country over the next few years..

[privatefraser]

My dad always said that as bad as the conservatives were.. Under Labour you would feel as if they have had it in for you personally.

Tell your old dad I agree with him 100 %.

Under the Tories everything was about money under Labour everything is about individual behaviour and control of that behaviour.

I have never known a Labour government before and called myself a socialist up until 1998. I now call myself a bitter and twisted cynic.

I sometimes say I am an anarchist but I know that isnt true as most anacrhists are also socialists. So skeptic and cynic I remain.

From 1997 to 2003 Labour created 660 brand new criminal offences.

They have started inventing crimes where none ever existed or were dreamt of existing before.

My brother and I (ex-socialist) joke that the will soon be making it illegal to wear your shoes in bed .

We reflect on the fact that Orwell's dystopian nightmare in 1984 was under the rule of a socialist government (IngSoc or English-Socialism) and we often think Labour use it as an alternative manifesto for some of their more authoritarian control-freak proposals.

They recently announced plans for compulsory lie-detector tests for people suspected of certain deviant behaviour (edit: it is actually for convicted sex offenders but how long before it is extended to everyone for any type of crime ? ) and compulsory medication for people who have committed no offence but were deemed to be a menace to society and possible offenders.

I hardly need mention that these last 2 proposals are straight out of Communist Russia.

They are masters of the politics of fear which psychologically makes it seem so personal.

Some prominent Labour/Govt slogans I have seen recently are

RAT ON A RAT ( The Stasi would approve and so would many stupid Tories/Fascists)

DESTROY VIOLENCE BEFORE IT DESTROYS YOU ( This is the classic WAR IS PEACE slogan and needs no further explanation to literate people)

They have recently introduced the following :

Summer Camps to teach youths valuable citizenship lessons under the YOUTH GREEN PAPER (Komsomol I believe they were called by the Soviets)

They also have citizenship classes and the likes in schools already.

In a word Labour try and f.uck with people's minds whereas the Tories only cared about their wallets.

Edited September 15, 2005 by privatefraser

[privatefraser]

Very true.  I've got my passport ready to flee on the day when it's obvious that fleeing is just about to be "disallowed".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That day is closer than you think.

My brother who has an exemplary record on everything and has never been involved with the police apart from motoring offences recently had his passport stolen.

He is finding it nearly impossible to obtain a new passport and has had his application for a passport turned down because the form was not filled correctly.

Apparently someone else must put their own passport number on the form.

He wants a passport badly to leave when the time comes.

[Euphorion]

For New Labour politically correct garbage and multicultural sanctimonious twaddle see:

Citizen X

They're teaching your kids this third-rate piety.

Edited September 15, 2005 by Euphorion

[magictorch]

"Imagine you saw a friend commit a crime. What would you do?"

Inform on your comrade!

Eeeeeek i never knew this was being fed to them. Oh no it must have started years ago.

WAR IS PEACE.........

:angry:

[farmerdring]

That day is closer than you think.

My brother who has an exemplary record on everything and has never been involved with the police apart from motoring offences recently had his passport stolen.

He is finding it nearly impossible to obtain a new passport and has had his application for a passport turned down because the form was not filled correctly.

Apparently someone else must put their own passport number on the form.

He wants a passport badly to leave when the time comes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah, he doesn't have enough domestic work experience.

he needs to work as a nanny for a while under david blunkett (or probably charles clarke now). this should do it.

[privatefraser]

For New Labour politically correct garbage and multicultural sanctimonious twaddle see:

Citizen X

They're teaching your kids this third-rate piety.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Citizen X ? They really are using 1984 as an alternative manifesto.

My flights wil be booked soon.

If I ever come back it will be in an urn.

[E Powell]

Bluelady

I agree with what you say. No government comes to power to mess up a country.

The Tories were bad in their time so are new labour. All politician pander to the

electorate to get into power and do what they like.

The tories never messed up the country neither have new labour its the people.

In this case there is no difference between thatcherite greed and blingite greed.

Up with the crash.

[aclwalker]

Maybe if he had promised bigger busts in the beginning, he would have been elected anyway

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this would definately have been popular with the Sun readers.

EDIT: Added emphasis, in case anyone doesn't get it.

Edited September 15, 2005 by aclwalker

[Elizabeth]

I don't really think it is Labour or the Tories that are the problem. Its called a capitalist cycle. There both as bad as each other, and the much vaunted 3rd way is just tinkering at the edges to take off the sting, but ultimately it really is what goes around comes around. I wouldn't vote for any of them, although the alternatives are fast becoming just as distasteful.

[cprulesok]

Tell your old dad I agree with him 100 %.

Under the Tories everything was about money under Labour everything is about individual behaviour and control of that behaviour.

I have never known a Labour government before and called myself a socialist up until 1998. I now call myself a bitter and twisted cynic.

I sometimes say I am an anarchist but I know that isnt true as most anacrhists are also socialists. So skeptic and cynic I remain.

From 1997 to 2003 Labour created 660 brand new criminal offences.

They have started inventing crimes where none ever existed or were dreamt of existing before.

My brother and I (ex-socialist) joke that the will soon be making it illegal to wear your shoes in bed .

We reflect on the fact that Orwell's dystopian nightmare in 1984 was under the rule of a socialist government (IngSoc or English-Socialism) and we often think Labour use it as an alternative manifesto for some of their more authoritarian control-freak proposals.

They recently announced plans for compulsory lie-detector tests for people suspected of certain deviant behaviour (edit: it is actually for convicted sex offenders but how long before it is extended to everyone for any type of crime ? ) and compulsory medication for people who have committed no offence but were deemed to be a menace to society and possible offenders.

I hardly need mention that these last 2 proposals are straight out of Communist Russia.

They are masters of the politics of fear which psychologically makes it seem so personal.

Some prominent Labour/Govt slogans I have seen recently are

RAT ON A RAT ( The Stasi would approve and so would many stupid Tories/Fascists)

DESTROY VIOLENCE BEFORE IT DESTROYS YOU ( This is the classic WAR IS PEACE slogan and needs no further explanation to literate people)

They have recently introduced the following :

Summer Camps to teach youths valuable citizenship lessons under the YOUTH GREEN PAPER (Komsomol I believe they were called by the Soviets)

They also have citizenship classes and the likes in schools already.

In a word Labour try and f.uck with people's minds whereas the Tories only cared about their wallets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Orwell !!, didnt you know that Labour base most of their ideas on this wan*er. What do you want, a stinking Socialist state (you can look at East europe for that) full of miserable ****5.

Whats wrong with caring about your wallet, most people on this site care about little else.

[lowrentyieldmakessense(honest!)]

Nope.. Low interst rates hurt business..

My company has got loads of money in the bank.. lots.. and doesent get enough interest..

(I work there.. not own..)

so we are fine..

Stop thinking debt is good..

debt is bad..

If you don't think so watch the country over the next few years..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Debt isn't always bad -

e.g. If you use debt to invest in machinery to make your compaany more efficient.

The debt that is bad is debt for new cars and investments that dont generate a return (buy to let at the moment).

It's not all gordons fault - although he should have done more to stop the house price bubble.

Alan Greenspan has also made some big mistakes - if they had just let the recession happen earlier it wouldn't have been as bad.

People have made their own decisions in using houses as ATM machines and spending money they haven't got, and buying houses because they always go up rather than looking at whether the yields make sense.