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RichB

Protests

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Looks like the student protests have moved into a new phase now. Apparently they are staying mobile and avoiding kettling. This now means that they are dispersed more across the capital, and are not really in a position where the cops can control them very well.

Possbily much safer it could be argued, and less effective.

Doesn't remove the fact that the powers that be used to think it better that the routes were planned out and approved for safety etc before hand - these are now going to be very adhoc very mobile.

If the coppers screw this up and get heavy handed the next phase of evolution of these protests is likely to be pretty ugly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11877034

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Looks like the student protests have moved into a new phase now. Apparently they are staying mobile and avoiding kettling. This now means that they are dispersed more across the capital, and are not really in a position where the cops can control them very well.

Possbily much safer it could be argued, and less effective.

Doesn't remove the fact that the powers that be used to think it better that the routes were planned out and approved for safety etc before hand - these are now going to be very adhoc very mobile.

If the coppers screw this up and get heavy handed the next phase of evolution of these protests is likely to be pretty ugly.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11877034

Less effective it registering your protest at a proposed policy or less effective at smashing up large tracts of real estate?

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Good question. I'd suggest probably the former. The latter would possibly be much more effective with lots of smaller groups, but a lot more personal involvement needed... Not really my field though!

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Looks like the student protests have moved into a new phase now. Apparently they are staying mobile and avoiding kettling.

I'm waiting for the press to capture the moment that the first reverse-kettle is performed.

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At which police are issued guns and start shooting people they believe 'are terrorists' A massive blood bath occurs and serves as a warning to the peasants not to do it again.

The Chinese certainly haven't kicked up a major fuss since the last blood bath.

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I'm waiting for the press to capture the moment that the first reverse-kettle is performed.

Same thought crossed my mind last week too. In spite of the increased police presence compared to the first student protest, they were still massively outnumbered. Looking at the view from some of the overhead camera positions, you'd have said as few as 10% of the 'kettled' students could have split one of the police lines then pushed one load of police back against a wall.

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Flyers were being distributed on the Leeds campus last week advising students to bring laser pointers with them to the demos in London and to aim them into police officers' eyeballs and at police helicopters if any attempt was made to kettle. Given what those things can do to people's sight, and aircraft in the event of their pilots becoming incapacitated, this strikes me as a potentially worrying development if significant numbers of demonstrators actually do this.

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Flyers were being distributed on the Leeds campus last week advising students to bring laser pointers with them to the demos in London and to aim them into police officers' eyeballs and at police helicopters if any attempt was made to kettle. Given what those things can do to people's sight, and aircraft in the event of their pilots becoming incapacitated, this strikes me as a potentially worrying development if significant numbers of demonstrators actually do this.

Well I would normally agree. However it depends on the situations. If they are doing no harm and are denied the right to leave then it is basically kidnapping. In this situation shining a laser in someones eyes is not exactly overkill IMO.

Pretty sure most laser pointers if shone in your eye for a brief moment wont cause any damage. It is only the really powerful ones or if one is shone in your eye for a long period of time ? I am sure someone will know.

Anyway yes I agree not very nice. Then kidnapping people is not very nice either. And I don't say that in an Injin style way either. It is kidnapping.

Speaking of Injin - where is he. :ph34r:

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Well I would normally agree. However it depends on the situations. If they are doing no harm and are denied the right to leave then it is basically kidnapping. In this situation shining a laser in someones eyes is not exactly overkill IMO.

Pretty sure most laser pointers if shone in your eye for a brief moment wont cause any damage. It is only the really powerful ones or if one is shone in your eye for a long period of time ? I am sure someone will know.

Anyway yes I agree not very nice. Then kidnapping people is not very nice either. And I don't say that in an Injin style way either. It is kidnapping.

Speaking of Injin - where is he. :ph34r:

If it is a UK legal limit laser pointer then the blink reflex should be quick enough. However, some laser pointers from abroad are definitely over powered in this respect.

As someone with a laser burn on my retina, I really hope they don't do this just in case. It is very irritating to have a shadow in my vision - particularly as I have never worked with lasers myself (I am pretty sure I know which lab I got zapped in though, although I didn't realise it at the time - sometimes I like the health and safety gone mad attitude we have in the UK).

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If it is a UK legal limit laser pointer then the blink reflex should be quick enough. However, some laser pointers from abroad are definitely over powered in this respect.

As someone with a laser burn on my retina, I really hope they don't do this just in case. It is very irritating to have a shadow in my vision - particularly as I have never worked with lasers myself (I am pretty sure I know which lab I got zapped in though, although I didn't realise it at the time - sometimes I like the health and safety gone mad attitude we have in the UK).

Yep sounds like a pretty nasty thing to happen. However if I was acting like some Police do and it happened to me ? I might sort of think I deserved it.

Then again it would probably be one of the decent Coppers who got it rather than one of the dicks.

Do you think maybe the students werent actually planning to do it - and it was just a ruse to prevent the Police from being overly 'kettling' as they have been recently. If I were a Copper and I heard this I would be a little more wary than usual.

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Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent's fate.

Seems someone was paying attention in a Sun Tzu lecture.

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Seems someone was paying attention in a Sun Tzu lecture.

It is pretty interesting that this lot seem to have been thinking and planning this stuff. However will the Police cope !! Coz let's be honest the old Plod are not generally the sharpest tools in the box.

A lot of the studenst I heard being interviewed sounded like annoying wee *****. However I reckon a fair few have a decent brain on them. Will be interesting to see what comes next.

The Cops must be shitting their pants. Thinking on their feet - whatever next :lol:

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Flyers were being distributed on the Leeds campus last week advising students to bring laser pointers with them to the demos in London and to aim them into police officers' eyeballs and at police helicopters if any attempt was made to kettle. Given what those things can do to people's sight, and aircraft in the event of their pilots becoming incapacitated, this strikes me as a potentially worrying development if significant numbers of demonstrators actually do this.

Whom ever is distributing these leaflets is committing an offence of inciting people to break the law. If they point them at a police helicopter then they willend up getting done with endangering the safety of an aircraft.

Honestly, these people are just utter w@nkers.

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Well I would normally agree. However it depends on the situations. If they are doing no harm and are denied the right to leave then it is basically kidnapping. In this situation shining a laser in someones eyes is not exactly overkill IMO.

Pretty sure most laser pointers if shone in your eye for a brief moment wont cause any damage. It is only the really powerful ones or if one is shone in your eye for a long period of time ? I am sure someone will know.

Anyway yes I agree not very nice. Then kidnapping people is not very nice either. And I don't say that in an Injin style way either. It is kidnapping.

Speaking of Injin - where is he. :ph34r:

Leaving aside the terminology of it, I have to say that I don't have a big problem with it. If it prevents violence and criminal damage then it's justified in my opinioin. If people don't want to be "kidnapped" then they shouldn't go about causing violence and vandalism. The ones who do go about causing violence and vandalism are abusing the freedom to protest and are ruining it for everyone else. If you abuse your freedoms then you can't really complain if they end up being trodden on.

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Yep sounds like a pretty nasty thing to happen. However if I was acting like some Police do and it happened to me ? I might sort of think I deserved it.

Then again it would probably be one of the decent Coppers who got it rather than one of the dicks.

Do you think maybe the students werent actually planning to do it - and it was just a ruse to prevent the Police from being overly 'kettling' as they have been recently. If I were a Copper and I heard this I would be a little more wary than usual.

This is the point. It's not going to help the situation at all and is just going to jack up the tension. The first person seen with one is going to get slapped - hard. Could you really blame a copper who did this knowing that it was being carried as a weapon and one which may cause serious and permanent damage?

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I had a right laugh watching these protesters on TV.

On the front line a girl, they are the worst, maybe she's a hardcore anarchist!

A tussle commences, she had one hand struggling with a copper, the other desperately clinging to her replica Gucci handbag!

Maybe it contained Molotov cocktails?

Or more likely - eyeliner, fake tan and the latest Cheryl Cole CD.

I don't think they get it.

Viva La Revolucion.

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Leaving aside the terminology of it, I have to say that I don't have a big problem with it. If it prevents violence and criminal damage then it's justified in my opinioin. If people don't want to be "kidnapped" then they shouldn't go about causing violence and vandalism. The ones who do go about causing violence and vandalism are abusing the freedom to protest and are ruining it for everyone else. If you abuse your freedoms then you can't really complain if they end up being trodden on.

But it does appear the Police like to use 'kettling' for protests that don't see to be a big deal either ? Should they be allowed to do it just in case that violence and vandalism may occur ? Treading dangerous water there IMO.

This is the point. It's not going to help the situation at all and is just going to jack up the tension. The first person seen with one is going to get slapped - hard. Could you really blame a copper who did this knowing that it was being carried as a weapon and one which may cause serious and permanent damage?

I don't think the Police are doing well on the reducing the tension aspect either. And they are the ones supposed to be in the Authority. Although I did notice a lot of them on TV yesterday were far more restrained than we have seen in recent demonstrations. Had a wee telling off after all the recent controversy no doubt. They were standing back at moments when even I would agree they were well within their rights to get well stuck in.

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I do hope he wasn't caught dropping a fire extinguisher off a building...

No chance - all mouth and no trousers. Besides, he'll probably have used some defence as to it not being illegal as he didn't actually harm anyone so there would be a protracted court case which would have ended up him being a laughing stock in the national media.

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But it does appear the Police like to use 'kettling' for protests that don't see to be a big deal either ? Should they be allowed to do it just in case that violence and vandalism may occur ? Treading dangerous water there IMO.

I don't know as I can't bring any examples to mind. Maybe, maybe not. The ones where it's been brought to my attention are the ones which have turned violent - or started that way - so it did seem justified in those circumstances.

I know there is case law on it so I'll dig through some books when I get a chance. The courts have said the same though; if it's a reasonable and proportunate measure to prevent violence and damage then they can do it. It isn't actually that radical a concept, to be fair. There is a long established principle of common law which says that any person may detain another in order to prevent or curtail violence, criminal damage or a breach of the peace and may use proportunate force in order to do so, "kettling" is merely an extension of that right. Indeed, you could probably still argue that a person actually has a duty to attempt to keep the peace is he is reasonably able to do so. That duty would unquestionably fall on a police officer as it is part of his oath to the crown.

I don't think the Police are doing well on the reducing the tension aspect either. And they are the ones supposed to be in the Authority. Although I did notice a lot of them on TV yesterday were far more restrained than we have seen in recent demonstrations. Had a wee telling off after all the recent controversy no doubt. They were standing back at moments when even I would agree they were well within their rights to get well stuck in.

I thought that too. I also noticed that they were mostly wearing baseball caps, not riot helmets. As always though, it's a fine line to tread. At what point do you back off with the risk of someone getting injured or the situation getting out of hand? If you back off too much and people get killed then are the police liable because they weren't heavy handed enough?

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At which police are issued guns and start shooting people they believe 'are terrorists' A massive blood bath occurs and serves as a warning to the peasants not to do it again.

The Chinese certainly haven't kicked up a major fuss since the last blood bath.

Err - you're talking about a mixed race of Celts, Vikings and Saxons! :rolleyes:

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  • 309 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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