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Fishman

And Ireland's Corporation Tax.....

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This is the most despicable part of the so called rescue plan.

Ireland is really just a tax-haven and to bail-out the country without forcing them to tax at a fair rate

is scandalous.

A fair tax system for all - corporations and individuals - is the first priority in regaining people's trust, not just for

Ireland but all countries.

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This is the most despicable part of the so called rescue plan.

Ireland is really just a tax-haven and to bail-out the country without forcing them to tax at a fair rate

is scandalous.

A fair tax system for all - corporations and individuals - is the first priority in regaining people's trust, not just for

Ireland but all countries.

Why not view it the other way round? The UK should drop CT to a point where people want to come her and not Ireland. I have no problem with the Irish staying low-to raise it would make the situation even worse IMO.

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Why not view it the other way round? The UK should drop CT to a point where people want to come her and not Ireland. I have no problem with the Irish staying low-to raise it would make the situation even worse IMO.

Yep if they increase the tax rate, the big corporations will walk who are currently propping up the Irish economy.

12.5% of something is better than 20% of nothing.

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Yep if they increase the tax rate, the big corporations will walk who are currently propping up the Irish economy.

12.5% of something is better than 20% of nothing.

I wonder how many corporations are even paying 12.5% in Ireland.

"Google’s income shifting -- involving strategies known to lawyers as the “Double Irish” and the “Dutch Sandwich” -- helped reduce its overseas tax rate to 2.4 percent, the lowest of the top five U.S. technology companies by market capitalization, according to regulatory filings in six countries."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html

I do agree with the OP though, its fundamentally unfair to increase the tax burden of individuals and let the corporates cream off their profits. The sooner Governments clamp down on these corporate tax loopholes the better.

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Yep if they increase the tax rate, the big corporations will walk who are currently propping up the Irish economy.

12.5% of something is better than 20% of nothing.

Call their bluff.

Raise the CT rate to 20% and let them go and find another country with lower rates, if they wish.

Deficits are the 'big news' headlines but tax avoidance is the bigger underlying issue.

Edited by Fishman

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Like the UK not putting up income tax, theu will simply include some form of transaction taxes or increased compulsory overhead ... that will raise the effective rate of taxation way beyond 12.5%..... or they will reclassify what is and isn't 'investment activity' for Irish corporation tax purposes....

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Yep if they increase the tax rate, the big corporations will walk who are currently propping up the Irish economy.

12.5% of something is better than 20% of nothing.

You missed the point of the rise.

Ireland has artifically low corporation tax rates which has resulted in companies across europe relocating their head offices to Ireland, depriving he countries the companies were in previously of tax income.

Essentially, Ireland is using EU money to allow it to have artificially low Corp Tax levels which then deprive the EU countries that leant it the money of tax income.

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Corporation tax should be replaced by a transaction tax.

Every time money goes into or out of a corporation a tiny tax should be taken directly and passed to the inland revenue.

Absolutely ridiculous that Google can legally avoid paying any tax on it's UK profits by shifitng money around.

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You missed the point of the rise.

Ireland has artifically low corporation tax rates which has resulted in companies across europe relocating their head offices to Ireland, depriving he countries the companies were in previously of tax income.

Essentially, Ireland is using EU money to allow it to have artificially low Corp Tax levels which then deprive the EU countries that leant it the money of tax income.

I realise it's completely fecked. The Irish have stolen taxes from other nations, now they have to borrow from those nations, but in order to have any remote chance of paying said nations back they need to keep the taxes they stole in the first place.

I suppose in a way the Europeans are not taxing Ireland via interest repayments to get some of the tax money back they stole in the first place.

So the question is how long do Irish tax payers keep subsidising the wealth corporations for.

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Yep if they increase the tax rate, the big corporations will walk who are currently propping up the Irish economy.

12.5% of something is better than 20% of nothing.

Google is registered in Ireland for it's international business.

Google pays 2.4% tax on its international profits by using a loophole in the irish tax system which enables income to be shuttled through the Irish system.

Ireland earns just 18 million in tax revenues from Google in this "Double Irish" trick.

They are propping up Ireland? This is the Myth created by the corporations and millionaires; it's their little secret the results of which are to deny the population the tax revenues they need in order to avoid being impoverished.

Facebook Inc. and Microsoft Corp are also doing the same.

These are tax avoiding parasites; they give very little to the Irish through tax revenues and employ very few people in Ireland (relatively small admin teams).

The host is dying.

Sorry, linky

Edited by MinceBalls

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Why not view it the other way round? The UK should drop CT to a point where people want to come her and not Ireland. I have no problem with the Irish staying low-to raise it would make the situation even worse IMO.

Because the result is tax competition for anything that is tax mobile. The end result being high taxes for the non-mobile average citizenry and small businesses, and low taxes for large corporations and wealthy individuals. Thats a great way to impoverish the masses and turn the west into a carbon copy of mexico. Not to mention spawning massive amounts of civil unrest.

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Google is registered in Ireland for it's international business.

Google pays 2.4% tax on its international profits by using a loophole in the irish tax system which enables income to be shuttled through the Irish system.

Ireland earns just 18 million in tax revenues from Google in this "Double Irish" trick.

They are propping up Ireland? This is the Myth created by the corporations and millionaires; it's their little secret the results of which are to deny the population the tax revenues they need in order to avoid being impoverished.

Facebook Inc. and Microsoft Corp are also doing the same.

These are tax avoiding parasites; they give very little to the Irish through tax revenues and employ very few people in Ireland (relatively small admin teams).

The host is dying.

Sorry, linky

Interesting. Marvellous how the rich avoid paying taxes.

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The Irish have stolen taxes from other nations

The Irish have enabled the multinationals to avoid paying corporation tax pretty much altogether (see above post) but haven't benefited themselves. They have attracted some of the most well known businesses in the world in some sort of ego trip but haven't made anything from it but at the same time taken tax revenues from other countries.

And now we are in this right old mess.

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I realise it's completely fecked. The Irish have stolen taxes from other nations, now they have to borrow from those nations, but in order to have any remote chance of paying said nations back they need to keep the taxes they stole in the first place.

I suppose in a way the Europeans are not taxing Ireland via interest repayments to get some of the tax money back they stole in the first place.

So the question is how long do Irish tax payers keep subsidising the wealth corporations for.

+1.

I suspect it was the main condition for the Irish accepting the bailout and the Europeans agreed (for now) not to kick a man while he's down. It won't solve Ireland's problems though, not a chance. The problem for Europe now is that the rest of the BIGPIS (I like that!) will also want concessions for accepting their bailouts. Where does it all end? It's madness - just think about it for a minute. The market doesn't want to lend to these countries because they know they'll never get their money back, so the ECB etc. step in to give it them a bit cheaper and kick the can a little futher down the road - bucking the market on a grand scale, and we know how that ALWAYS ends.

It's like an unemployed man wanting to buy a big house - a bank will obviously not lend him the money - so the government agrees to lend saying he can pay back the loan over 100 years out of his benefits.

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I realise it's completely fecked. The Irish have stolen taxes from other nations, now they have to borrow from those nations, but in order to have any remote chance of paying said nations back they need to keep the taxes they stole in the first place.

I suppose in a way the Europeans are not taxing Ireland via interest repayments to get some of the tax money back they stole in the first place.

So the question is how long do Irish tax payers keep subsidising the wealth corporations for.

Correct, thats why the interest rate is so high, becuase the Irish can afford to pay it. Irish taxpayers are not paying much tax and public sector employee's are the highest paid in Europe.

If they defaulted and left the euro their wages would fall 50% like Iceland (although a fake exchange rate masks the real fall of 75%).

And remember Ireland is owned more than 110% of its GDP by the PIGS, thats about 170Billion it could lose if it triggered mass default

Edited by Peter Hun

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+1.

I suspect it was the main condition for the Irish accepting the bailout and the Europeans agreed (for now) not to kick a man while he's down. It won't solve Ireland's problems though, not a chance. The problem for Europe now is that the rest of the BIGPIS (I like that!) will also want concessions for accepting their bailouts. Where does it all end? It's madness - just think about it for a minute. The market doesn't want to lend to these countries because they know they'll never get their money back, so the ECB etc. step in to give it them a bit cheaper and kick the can a little futher down the road - bucking the market on a grand scale, and we know how that ALWAYS ends.

It's like an unemployed man wanting to buy a big house - a bank will obviously not lend him the money - so the government agrees to lend saying he can pay back the loan over 100 years out of his benefits.

A deal was probably struck allowing Eire to keep CT at 12.5% if they also chucked the National Pension Fund into the bail-out mix at 0%

Stops any nasty little Sunday morning flare-ups at the golf club between the Irish Ministers and their Corporate buddies.

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One wonders if they actually concentrated on generating wealth rather than avoiding taxes they might make more money? But then again I suppose avoiding taxes is easier than doing hard work?

Yes, I assume what with all this 'cost analysis' that they do, a lot of number crunching, figuring out how they can make savings (tax). I suppose they have made a few accountants VERY rich but impoverished a great many people / nations in the process.

This is much like FreeTrader was discussing over at a different thread but in a slightly different context... the people are being raped, the rich are asset stripping the world but the people have not figured it out because they have bought into the ego boost. The rape is so very obvious it makes you wonder how they don't realise it but they will... one day... when they can't afford a meal and they have nothing left to lose.

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One wonders if they actually concentrated on generating wealth rather than avoiding taxes they might make more money? But then again I suppose avoiding taxes is easier than doing hard work?

One wonders if they government actually concentrated on providing services people needed they might not need so much tax? But then again stealing from the working is easier than making the useless eaters do hard work.

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One wonders if they government actually concentrated on providing services people needed they might not need so much tax? But then again stealing from the working is easier than making the useless eaters do hard work.

It is an interesting problem.

The reward for citizens of attracting a tax base is the level of benefits that can be passed on to those who require support. The risk for citizens who require support is that the level of benefits being passed on to them pushes the tax base to a different jurisdiction.

If I were to set up a holding company for a collection of operating companies spanning the globe, it is pretty obvious that places like Ireland, Bermuda, Barbados, Jersey, the Isle of Man, Guernsey, Hong Kong, Singapore, Luxembourg, Lichtenstein et al are willing to take small slice of a larger tax base than places like the USA, the UK etc.

Governments need to understand that they operate in a competitive global environment. While they can rule over domestic PAYE earners with an iron fist, they have much less control over taxpayers who can choose their tax jurisdiction. This is particularly galling for left leaning governments which value state control over individuals and organisations very highly.

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Corporation tax should be replaced by a transaction tax.

Every time money goes into or out of a corporation a tiny tax should be taken directly and passed to the inland revenue.

Absolutely ridiculous that Google can legally avoid paying any tax on it's UK profits by shifitng money around.

and top of this, these kind of countries enable financial frauds and money laundering

http://www.msnbc.msn...g_businessweek/

In Bermuda there's no corporate income tax at all. Google's profits travel to the island's white sands via a convoluted route known to tax lawyers as the "Double Irish" and the "Dutch Sandwich." In Google's case, it generally works like this: When a company in Europe, the Middle East or Africa purchases a search ad through Google, it sends the money to Google Ireland. The Irish government taxes corporate profits at 12.5 percent, but Google mostly escapes that tax because its earnings don't stay in the Dublin office, which reported a pretax profit of less than 1 percent of revenues in 2008.

Irish law makes it difficult for Google to send the money directly to Bermuda without incurring a large tax hit, so the payment makes a brief detour through the Netherlands, since Ireland doesn't tax certain payments to companies in other European Union states. Once the money is in the Netherlands, Google can take advantage of generous Dutch tax laws. Its subsidiary there, Google Netherlands Holdings, is just a shell (it has no employees) and passes on about 99.8 percent of what it collects to Bermuda. (The subsidiary managed in Bermuda is technically an Irish company, hence the "Double Irish" nickname.)

Edited by getknk

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One wonders if they government actually concentrated on providing services people needed they might not need so much tax? But then again stealing from the working is easier than making the useless eaters do hard work.

Don't worry I do realise the govt wastes an awful lot of money, diversity coordinators are a god send for the greater productivity of the nation.

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You lot are all very much mistaken.

The EU Governments are not subsidising Ireland's CT, which takes jobs away from their own countries.

The non-Ireland PEOPLE PAYING TAXES are the ones subsidising Ireland's low CT, thus taking jobs away from OUR own countries.

Just thought I'd point that out.

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  • 144 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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