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Tory Peer Flight Apologises For Benefits Remark

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not singing from the same song sheet!

In a few years from now if any peer failed to tow the line they'll hang for thought crimes and how can you withdraw a comment already made. An oxymoron if ever I heard one.

:rolleyes:

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I think its disgusting. Why should he apoologise for stating the obvious?

He should have said it twice!

Edited by sbn

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Watching BBC news... Just reminds me quite how biased and left wing they are.

In the main story: "some will find the remarks offensive, others will be reminded of the days of the nasty Tory party of the 1980s" (...as if those are the two options available)

In the discussion, some reporter bint: "it just shows how out of touch some Conservatives are with the general public..." Errrr.... I think, Madam, if you were to step outside your cozy London Metropolitan clique, you might find out how the REAL public think, not just your lefty chums inside the BBC office.

</rant>

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Watching BBC news... Just reminds me quite how biased and left wing they are.

In the main story: "some will find the remarks offensive, others will be reminded of the days of the nasty Tory party of the 1980s" (...as if those are the two options available)

In the discussion, some reporter bint: "it just shows how out of touch some Conservatives are with the general public..." Errrr.... I think, Madam, if you were to step outside your cozy London Metropolitan clique, you might find out how the REAL public think, not just your lefty chums inside the BBC office.

</rant>

Exactly. After all the condemnations and Cameron's cowardly words are dealt with, the BBC would not actually ask whether there is any truth to the statement and follow up with a report. The comment is accepted as bad and wrong, without any analysis.

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I think its disgusting. Why should he apoologise for stating the obvious?

He should have said it twice!

Different (but similar) story featured on the daily mash

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/heartless%2c-insensitive-old-tory-absolutely-spot-on-201011193271/

Its got to something when the satire sites provide a more sober and accurate account of events than the 'news' sites <_<

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Judging by the comments here, on other sites and even on the BBC's own article it would appear that Mr Flight is very much in touch with the opinion of the majority. In the Evening Standard quote he says "the middle classes are discouraged from breeding" so although this is an odd choice of words it was not something he was using exclusively to describe the working class..... not that that would stop the BBC pinkos misrepresenting it as a class slur.

Edited by Orsino

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The problem with the comment is that it does not address why 'middle class' people cannot afford to have children. All it does it create discontent against a mythical 'ubermenschen'.

Classic distraction technique in my opinion. Goebbels would've been proud.

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Watching BBC news... Just reminds me quite how biased and left wing they are.

In the main story: "some will find the remarks offensive, others will be reminded of the days of the nasty Tory party of the 1980s" (...as if those are the two options available)

In the discussion, some reporter bint: "it just shows how out of touch some Conservatives are with the general public..." Errrr.... I think, Madam, if you were to step outside your cozy London Metropolitan clique, you might find out how the REAL public think, not just your lefty chums inside the BBC office.

</rant>

As Norman tebbit said the other day 'The nasty tory party got 14 million votes and re-elected 3 times, the nice tory party got 10 million'

If i wanted goddamn Mother Teresa as PM id ask Mother Teresa to be PM. Reality is, the world isnt always a nice place. We need strong leaders, n'ot nice' leaders.

But yes the BBC are disgraceful. Yesterday on an immigration report they managed to get some toothless illiterate thuggish looking retard to mutter 'theres too many immigrants, innit'

I thought, how long had they spent looking for him. How many immigration concerned people who looked respectable did they brush aside.

How anyone cannot see the BBC for what it is, quite frankly, is beyond me.

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The problem with the comment is that it does not address why 'middle class' people cannot afford to have children. All it does it create discontent against a mythical 'ubermenschen'.

Classic distraction technique in my opinion. Goebbels would've been proud.

Indeed.

Student filth get edgy at £30k in uni debt, but happily take on £100k+ more than they should need to in Mortgage debt. Except mortgage debt isnt only payable when youre earning big money, and a house is more of a neccessity than a media degree.

The govt should create a 'you'll miss the boat' atmosphere like Estate agents, 'dont buy a degree now and itll cost you double in three years time" :lol:

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The problem with the comment is that it does not address why 'middle class' people cannot afford to have children. All it does it create discontent against a mythical 'ubermenschen'.

Untermenschen, surely?

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The problem with the comment is that it does not address why 'middle class' people cannot afford to have children.

But it does.

The problem is that workers have to think about "can I afford another" wheras the unemployed don't give it a second thought.

I know several mid thirties couples who've stopped at 2 purely becuase they can't afford the third. If they were on benefits the govenment would meet all of the costs for them.

Does anyone know of any self supporting families where there are 4 or more kids these days?

And the middle classes can't afford more because the government is taking 50% of everything they earn and bidding up housing costs at the same time.

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If people who define themselves as 'middle class' can't afford children, this is because they don't place a high enough priority on having kids, nothing to do with people on benefits. Or they want to have kids, but have to send little Tarquin to private school etc -- not being able to afford that aint the same as not being able to afford kids. It's the same thinking that gets people on here moaning that they are 'poor' when they are earning £30k a year. Awwwww.

What these people should say is "I can't afford kids if it means making any kind of sacrifice."

It's not just the benefit underclass that's having babies, what a load of sh*te. Honestly, I think the Tories are beyond reproach on this site. Middle class bubble-heads preaching to the choir.

"Oh, you just love Labour I suppose blah blah" -- no, I don't.

"Yes but I know a woman who doesn't work, she has 17 children and lives at 13 Downing Street, paid for by housing benefit. I only earn £75k a year, I don't go out, I eat beans every day and save to live in a Cornflake box."

or

"Well my girlfriend and I are both graduates in professional jobs. How can we afford kids compared to benefit cheats on council estates? Surely you don't expect me to only go snowboarding 3 times per year?"

etc.

Yawn.

Just kill yourselves, please.

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If people who define themselves as 'middle class' can't afford children, this is because they don't place a high enough priority on having kids, nothing to do with people on benefits. Or they want to have kids, but have to send little Tarquin to private school etc -- not being able to afford that aint the same as not being able to afford kids. It's the same thinking that gets people on here moaning that they are 'poor' when they are earning £30k a year. Awwwww.

What these people should say is "I can't afford kids if it means making any kind of sacrifice."

Although I wouldn't put it in such black and white terms I do tend to agree. There does seem to be a large number of people who prioritise careers and material goods over having children - possibly too much indoctrination into an anarchistic and somewhat futile existence ?

As a counterpoint, I have read some works by researchers in statistics that demonstrate that the number of children is also IQ related, and that low IQ tends to large families thus spreading the genetics for low intelligence to subsume those with more cognitive ability.

One thing i am sure of, one cannot be 'educated' to be intelligent. It has a genetic precondition. One wonders what is the point of education ? Although I digress......

An interesting post.

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If people who define themselves as 'middle class' can't afford children, this is because they don't place a high enough priority on having kids, nothing to do with people on benefits. Or they want to have kids, but have to send little Tarquin to private school etc -- not being able to afford that aint the same as not being able to afford kids. It's the same thinking that gets people on here moaning that they are 'poor' when they are earning £30k a year. Awwwww.

What these people should say is "I can't afford kids if it means making any kind of sacrifice."

It's not just the benefit underclass that's having babies, what a load of sh*te. Honestly, I think the Tories are beyond reproach on this site. Middle class bubble-heads preaching to the choir.

"Oh, you just love Labour I suppose blah blah" -- no, I don't.

"Yes but I know a woman who doesn't work, she has 17 children and lives at 13 Downing Street, paid for by housing benefit. I only earn £75k a year, I don't go out, I eat beans every day and save to live in a Cornflake box."

or

"Well my girlfriend and I are both graduates in professional jobs. How can we afford kids compared to benefit cheats on council estates? Surely you don't expect me to only go snowboarding 3 times per year?"

etc.

Yawn.

Just kill yourselves, please.

Your right there has been alot of me me me and lusting for glitzy things and the media and papers of all colours can be partly to blame. The biggest indulgence has been housing or rather owning your own. The problem with HPI and bigger mortgages is that these 'greedy' people have a mill stone around their necks and can't just hit the reset button. Many of them live in nasty newbuild 3 bedroom homes that they bought (borrowed against) with dreams if filling the house with their brood they just can't afford to do it yet and of my generation (mid 30s) the biological clock is ticking for them.

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Although I wouldn't put it in such black and white terms I do tend to agree. There does seem to be a large number of people who prioritise careers and material goods over having children - possibly too much indoctrination into an anarchistic and somewhat futile existence ?

As a counterpoint, I have read some works by researchers in statistics that demonstrate that the number of children is also IQ related, and that low IQ tends to large families thus spreading the genetics for low intelligence to subsume those with more cognitive ability.

One thing i am sure of, one cannot be 'educated' to be intelligent. It has a genetic precondition. One wonders what is the point of education ? Although I digress......

An interesting post.

Could be that.

It could also be that when you are skint, shagging is a low cost way to spend your time. A lot of people who are poor aren't too good with forward planning either, I guess, hence more kids. Even when there was no benefit system to speak of, poorer classes still had large families. Going way back, a lot of that was to do with sending kids out to work and/or the fact that some of the kids would die young.

Another factor is that poorer people might often have kids younger in life -- no, not just to "get a free council house" (although there are a few filth-hounds who think like that). No, rather that they have no real career or aspirational aims so having kids brings a bit of purpose into life. That or they were just more wreckless in their youth.

And, I'll stop being an a**hole for a second and say this (as a general message to anyone): don't put off having kids due to your finances, if you want them, have them. You are only here once and it would be a huge regret to not have children due to money. There's more to life, you can find a way.

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Your right there has been alot of me me me and lusting for glitzy things and the media and papers of all colours can be partly to blame. The biggest indulgence has been housing or rather owning your own. The problem with HPI and bigger mortgages is that these 'greedy' people have a mill stone around their necks and can't just hit the reset button. Many of them live in nasty newbuild 3 bedroom homes that they bought (borrowed against) with dreams if filling the house with their brood they just can't afford to do it yet and of my generation (mid 30s) the biological clock is ticking for them.

a lot of you are being taken for a ride, the tories will destory the lower class, i post months ago you can't trust osborne et al, they are fake worse, than labour, look at the party donors look at the top 5 then look at the polices over the passed few months. You all are idiots.

I ve never said that to anyone on any forums , but you are falling for this classic propaganda, they are stealing from you and you can't even see it.

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a lot of you are being taken for a ride, the tories will destory the lower class, i post months ago you can't trust osborne et al, they are fake worse, than labour, look at the party donors look at the top 5 then look at the polices over the passed few months. You all are idiots.

I ve never said that to anyone on any forums , but you are falling for this classic propaganda, they are stealing from you and you can't even see it.

Are you agreeing with me or telling me something I dint already know ? ;)

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Could be that.

It could also be that when you are skint, shagging is a low cost way to spend your time. A lot of people who are poor aren't too good with forward planning either, I guess, hence more kids. Even when there was no benefit system to speak of, poorer classes still had large families. Going way back, a lot of that was to do with sending kids out to work and/or the fact that some of the kids would die young.

Another factor is that poorer people might often have kids younger in life -- no, not just to "get a free council house" (although there are a few filth-hounds who think like that). No, rather that they have no real career or aspirational aims so having kids brings a bit of purpose into life. That or they were just more wreckless in their youth.

And, I'll stop being an a**hole for a second and say this (as a general message to anyone): don't put off having kids due to your finances, if you want them, have them. You are only here once and it would be a huge regret to not have children due to money. There's more to life, you can find a way.

You're certainly not being an arsehole. You make a much more thoughtful comment than some of the indoctrinated crap I read on here.

I tend towards research to consider my points, but your comments cut through some muddled thinking more than a dryly worded document pronouncing 'findings'.

I came from a piss-poor background and I object as strongly as you do to the shit we read on here no matter where I've ended up in life. I suspect my background is what makes me strive to prove my points through 'facts' rather than opinion.

And yes, I didn't let my poverty stop me having kids. It was more important than anything.

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You're certainly not being an arsehole. You make a much more thoughtful comment than some of the indoctrinated crap I read on here.

I tend towards research to consider my points, but your comments cut through some muddled thinking more than a dryly worded document pronouncing 'findings'.

I came from a piss-poor background and I object as strongly as you do to the shit we read on here no matter where I've ended up in life. I suspect my background is what makes me strive to prove my points through 'facts' rather than opinion.

And yes, I didn't let my poverty stop me having kids. It was more important than anything.

Good stuff.

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a lot of you are being taken for a ride, the tories will destory the lower class, i post months ago you can't trust osborne et al, they are fake worse, than labour, look at the party donors look at the top 5 then look at the polices over the passed few months. You all are idiots.

I ve never said that to anyone on any forums , but you are falling for this classic propaganda, they are stealing from you and you can't even see it.

I don't disagree with you except for the fact you blame only the Tories.

The politicians of all mainstream parties in the UK are the same. The EU is even worse.

We are all being robbed blind. Over taxed on everything, direct or indirectly. Our savings wiped out by inflation. Our pensions destroyed.

You are so correct but it isn't just the Conservatives. An easy target but actually Labour did more damage from 1997-2010 than any other Government in 300 years to the economy, the social fabric and cohesion of the UK, the defence of this Nation, the economy and your personal wellbeing.

Labour deserve to be destined for the dustbin for ever. The mess they have left us with is almost incomprehensible.

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If people who define themselves as 'middle class' can't afford children, this is because they don't place a high enough priority on having kids, nothing to do with people on benefits.

Maybe they just feel they don't want to be in position where their earnings are effectively taxed at around 100%. That is not difficult to achieve if you are on a low wage.. In other words, if children are high-enough priority then the best way to implement it for a sizeable proportion of the working poor is to lose the job. Then they get counted in the same statistic as the workshy.

Or they want to have kids, but have to send little Tarquin to private school etc -- not being able to afford that aint the same as not being able to afford kids. It's the same thinking that gets people on here moaning that they are 'poor' when they are earning £30k a year. Awwwww.

£30k indeed counts as poor. Look at the outcry when when nasty party announced benefits will be capped at £25k or so per family. "How oh how will they live" the cries went. A family with a few children and one earner on £30k might as well go entirely on benefits nowadays once they figure out the effective tax rate.

You must be completely out of touch with the real world if you think someone on £30k can even contemplate educating more than one child privately. Even a couple both earning £30k would have to budget very carefully. I am not talking Eton or Winchester: they cost £30k+ a year, so £50k in pre-tax income. Even a family on £100k would struggle there.

What these people should say is "I can't afford kids if it means making any kind of sacrifice."

I don't see you have a clue.

It's not just the benefit underclass that's having babies, what a load of sh*te. Honestly, I think the Tories are beyond reproach on this site. Middle class bubble-heads preaching to the choir.

Fact: a child born into a UK family where the parents work means their standard of living suffers a substantial drop. Contrariwise, a child born into a family on benefits improves their standard of living.

Just kill yourselves, please.

After you, Sir.

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<snip>

And the middle classes can't afford more because the government is taking 50% of everything they earn and bidding up housing costs at the same time.

Do you mean income tax + ni? If so, I think you need to add vat, council and tv tax into that figure.... and car tax petrol duty if you drive.

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12,000 a year, lots of people on that, pretty much the NMW, that is £1000 per month.

200 goes in income tax/NI.

Of the remaining 800, 20% of it will be going on VAT which is on pretty much everything they will be spending, which will probably be their entire wage, so 360 clawed away in tax so far.

Assuming 4 pints of booze and a packet of cigarettes a week, thats another 40 or so up to 400.

So someone pretty much at the bottom of the pile is handing over about 40% of their pay to the G, and I've barely even started - this is assuming they live in a bedsit and aren't paying council tax on it, for example. It doesn't include the indirect costs of things like extortionate fuel taxes, which drive up the price of everything in the country which has to be moved, which is almost everything.

This is IMHO punitive, devastating levels of taxation. The poor who actually work are being gouged. Those better off are being gouged even more, sure, but even at the lowest rungs of the earning scales the government is acting like a malignant parasite.

Imagine if they paid no tax at all, it'd be the equivalent of pretty much doubling the minimum wage.

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  • 261 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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