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A very politically motivated ad.

That said, the economics are undeniable. Creditors dictate terms to debtors and not the other way around.

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This is quite a good programme if you're looking for something on the fading of the American Dream:

http://www.radiotimes.com/ListingsServlet?event=10&channelId=105&programmeId=147083292&jspLocation=/jsp/prog_details_fullpage.jsp

American Dream

Tuesday 23 November 11:20pm - 12:20am

BBC2

Plenty and Paranoia

1/3, series 1

You may remember the striking series The Lost World of Communism, which collated East European homemovie clips alongside accounts of daily life behind the Iron Curtain. Now the same producer turns his attention to postwar America. Essentially, this is The Lost World of Capitalism, a series of vignettes of what the American dream meant to individual Americans, from a Tupperware saleswoman to the Californian boyfriend of novelist Christopher Isherwood. The case-study approach can be frustrating, as we skip from the reminiscences of protest singer Pete Seeger to the story of an Iowa millionaire who kept lions in the garden, or from a composer of musicals about Chevrolets to saucy starlet Mamie Van Doren. But the cumulative effect is powerful and the home-movie clips of Isherwood with Stravinsky and EM Forster are simply magical.

That was the repeat, so you may have to find it on iPlayer. Things were falling apart even in the early 1960s.

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This is quite a good programme if you're looking for something on the fading of the American Dream:

http://www.radiotime...ls_fullpage.jsp

American Dream

Tuesday 23 November 11:20pm - 12:20am

BBC2

Plenty and Paranoia

1/3, series 1

That was the repeat, so you may have to find it on iPlayer. Things were falling apart even in the early 1960s.

Just had a look on iplayer - not available..

Edited by Unemployed Youth

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Watched it last night. Just flicked over but ended up watching most of it. Very interesting. Did seem to jump all over the place but I think that must have been the point. I think ?!

Next 2 should be good.

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I have added this to my "status" on Facebook. I expect my Austrian and Krugmanite (there are no Keynesians based on the evidence during the years of plenty) to reveal themselves shortly.

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What they failed to mention was that the ones who didn't laugh on cue were executed.

We have it so much better in the West. Those who don't ascribe to the Krugmanite arguments are only ridiculed and marginalised.

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Funny how they don't seem to see the Iraq and Afghan wars as waste.

Killing foreign brown people - good use of money.

Providing health care for own citizens - waste.

What ??

I am very fiscally conservative.

The Iran and Afgan wars are a complete waste of life (on both sides) and money.

The state is a much more efficient provider of health care than the private sector due to its cost of capital, economy of scale and risk pooling advantages.

Running massive trade and budget deficits which allows China and other creditor nations to accumulate a large proportion of a state's obligations is a meek and subtle handover of sovereignty without requiring a shot to be fired.

Political dogma and economic reality ought to be seperated. It is possible to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Neither the left or the right in mainstream politics seem to be able to accept this reality which is why we are going down a path of self inflicted destruction in the West.

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What ??

I am very fiscally conservative.

The Iran and Afgan wars are a complete waste of life (on both sides) and money.

The state is a much more efficient provider of health care than the private sector due to its cost of capital, economy of scale and risk pooling advantages.

Running massive trade and budget deficits which allows China and other creditor nations to accumulate a large proportion of a state's obligations is a meek and subtle handover of sovereignty without requiring a shot to be fired.

Political dogma and economic reality ought to be seperated. It is possible to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Neither the left or the right in mainstream politics seem to be able to accept this reality which is why we are going down a path of self inflicted destruction in the West.

And of course the success of the Chinese isn't in any way due to a strong government interfering in private enterprise...

This 'advert' is sinister ideological garbage attempting to persuade the poor and middle class to act against their own interests because it is 'right' or 'good for the nation'.

Ideologies are excuses for individual power. The excuses are not important. In reality the only important questions are who has power, how did they get it, and how can we take it back.

Edited by (Blizzard)

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It is possible to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

Tony Blair claims this position for himself, various admirers of his in the current conservative party (Lansley, Cameron, Osborne) seem to claim something along those lines, many more 'traditional' tory backbenchers do not

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And of course the success of the Chinese isn't in any way due to a strong government interfering in private enterprise...

This 'advert' is sinister ideological garbage attempting to persuade the poor and middle class to act against their own interests because it is 'right' or 'good for the nation'.

Ideologies are excuses for individual power. The excuses are not important. In reality the only important questions are who has power, how did they get it, and how can we take it back.

In the West, we have weak and ineffective governments interfering to the detriment of private enterprise.

In the West, we have a problem in that self interest and societal interest are at odds with each other.

Unfortunately, as the result of the way that representative democracy works, we end up in a situation where politicians all across the political spectrum pander to the their perceived supporters to get elected which is to the detriment of society as a whole.

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Tony Blair claims this position for himself, various admirers of his in the current conservative party (Lansley, Cameron, Osborne) seem to claim something along those lines, many more 'traditional' tory backbenchers do not

I accept that this is a problem.

To my earlier point, there is no mainstream political party that is consistently socially liberal and fiscally conservative over meaningful periods of time.

I suspect that the populace sees itself as socially liberal and fiscally conservative which is why they switch between parties over time when parties swing too far towards either the social or the fiscal extreme.

Once again, I see direct rather than representative democracy as the solution as it allows people to express their views directly rather than through the prism of politicians who have a different agenda (staying in power) to the general population.

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Maybe they'll just sink into a post-empire malaise, like us?

Admittedly no two countries are the same but that does seem to be their chosen path at the moment.

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In the West, we have weak and ineffective governments interfering to the detriment of private enterprise.

In the West, we have a problem in that self interest and societal interest are at odds with each other.

Unfortunately, as the result of the way that representative democracy works, we end up in a situation where politicians all across the political spectrum pander to the their perceived supporters to get elected which is to the detriment of society as a whole.

With all due respect, I disagree.

In the West, particularly the US, power rests in the hands of 'private enterprise'. Government is still powerful and there is conflict, but generally private enterprise wins. This means that the American ruling class don't have absolute power. There are hundreds of millions of US citizens who together, through the government, could gain concessions from the corporations - things like healthcare for example.

To make sure this doesn't happen, the powerful introduce an ideology to explain and justify their power, and to prevent people from opposing them. Then they produce brainwashing like this video to sell it to credulous individuals. After all, anyone who believes that Lloyd Blankfein doesn't deserve to be wealthy, is just jealous. He worked hard, and provided goods that met a demand, and anyone who says otherwise is a communist.

In China, the government has the power. It still needs a creation myth, which they call communism, in order to prevent a revolution by the 1 billion Chinese, although less so because they are very powerful.

If you don't believe me consider that in america, corporations can heavily influence elections through funding, lobbying and the media. In china, it is the government that picks the leaders of the private sector.

The reason that 'america' is losing its empire to the 'chinese' is because powerful individuals in America believe they can increase their power this way. The corporations are cutting the US and its government loose because they believe that they, as individuals, can do a deal with the Chinese.

They are probably wrong.

Edited by (Blizzard)

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  • 146 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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