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Nhs Job Cuts May Come One Year Early

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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5hiB_peXa02R27kDjYZuetsSfgJog?docId=B3285531290437411A00

The loss of thousands of jobs through the abolition of primary care trusts, including more than 3,000 in London, will happen within a year instead of the previously expected two years, union leaders have claimed.

Unison said the jobs will now be axed by next April, a year quicker than announced under the Government's plans for a shake-up of the NHS.

Unison said around 3,300 jobs were set to be lost in London alone.

Chis Remington, the union's head of health for London, said: "The health White Paper paves the way for massive job losses as Primary Care Trusts are abolished. In London alone 3,300 jobs are set to go and these losses are being changed from two years into one.

"This will cause widespread disturbance to health service provision in the capital as commissioning expertise will be lost and there is no system in place to replace it."

Unions said that hundreds of PCT employees in parts of London including Haringey, Islington, Enfield and Barnet have been told they will be put on 90 day statutory consultation on redundancy.

The Royal College of Nursing warned last week that almost 27,000 health jobs faced the axe, describing the Government's promise to protect the NHS from cuts as an "urban myth."

The RCN warned that waiting lists for operations will rise as job losses mount, adding that the public should be "really concerned" about the impact of the cuts.

Dr Peter Carter, chief executive of the RCN, said job losses were occurring by "stealth", with trusts withholding evidence of redundancies and recruitment freezes.

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Yep NHS jobs are going. Mrs Pent Up's department is being outsorced. Probably be after Christmas although nothing is conformed.

Mrs Smeagol(a doctor) tells me that 75% of all childrens services in somerset are to be axed.

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Yep NHS jobs are going. Mrs Pent Up's department is being outsorced. Probably be after Christmas although nothing is conformed.

I empathise with you personally but the simple fact is that the NHS has become hugely over-staffed with lower and middle management. My ex is a nurse who was offered, and took, such a job. She lasted a year but it drove her mad because nobody in her office ever did anything except sit around talking about last night's "Big Brother" on TV.

She said "It's weird, I remember when I was training that these were all wards, full of patients, now they are all offices with the most luxurious deep-pile carpets, full of people doing nothing".

As I said, she lasted a year then had to get back to nursing- "blood and guts" was her expression.

All this is wrong. I am out of work now (along with hundreds of thousands of others in the private sector), so I no longer pay PAYE and NI, so the wages of these people can no longer be paid. They have to go.

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The problem is, it's the middle management pen pushers who get to decide who are for the chop.. and they're not going to axe themselves now are they ?

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I empathise with you personally but the simple fact is that the NHS has become hugely over-staffed with lower and middle management. My ex is a nurse who was offered, and took, such a job. She lasted a year but it drove her mad because nobody in her office ever did anything except sit around talking about last night's "Big Brother" on TV.

She said "It's weird, I remember when I was training that these were all wards, full of patients, now they are all offices with the most luxurious deep-pile carpets, full of people doing nothing".

As I said, she lasted a year then had to get back to nursing- "blood and guts" was her expression.

All this is wrong. I am out of work now (along with hundreds of thousands of others in the private sector), so I no longer pay PAYE and NI, so the wages of these people can no longer be paid. They have to go.

This is exactly the situation described to me by senior nurses who became administrators.

If they didn't know what to do with someone, they were NEVER made redundant, they created jobs that didn't exist. Managers don't have the courage to fire people in the NHS, they simply stop recruiting when pressurised, so they won't fire administrators and recruit more nurses.

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We want a top class NHS, but we must create the wealth to pay for it.

If it needs 100 middle managers, 90 administrators, to 10 doctors, then so be it, I am not to judge.

But at the moment, not enough wealth is being created, so we must go back a few steps.

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I empathise with you personally but the simple fact is that the NHS has become hugely over-staffed with lower and middle management. My ex is a nurse who was offered, and took, such a job. She lasted a year but it drove her mad because nobody in her office ever did anything except sit around talking about last night's "Big Brother" on TV.

She said "It's weird, I remember when I was training that these were all wards, full of patients, now they are all offices with the most luxurious deep-pile carpets, full of people doing nothing".

As I said, she lasted a year then had to get back to nursing- "blood and guts" was her expression.

All this is wrong. I am out of work now (along with hundreds of thousands of others in the private sector), so I no longer pay PAYE and NI, so the wages of these people can no longer be paid. They have to go.

Fully agree and so does she. Her office could function more efficiently with 3/4 of the staff. Of the last six months her manger has been there less than 4 after holidays and pointless waste of money courses. It's a joke.

The rest of the office shared by another department will have to reapply for a smaller number of their jobs, so some to go there too.

It's unfortunate for us personally but it has to be done.

Edited by Pent Up

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The NHS needs about 8% a year extra funding to stay at the same patient throughput.

Expect cuts in training budgets and in anything not obviously front-line (although the job-for-lifers management and other administrators will stay take some removing).

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The cuts for NHS London (PCT budget) amount to 54%

GPs will end up doing the work PCTs did for 25% of the current budget via GP commissioning consortia

We don't know if we'll inherit PCT deficits (we will be constituted as entirely new organisations by primary legislation). TUPE means employees made redundant may be offered generous terms depending on their contract

I cannot see how we can deliver 75% cuts while honouring these commitments.

Edited by mdman

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To say something positive - at least there has been reasonable investment in NHS infrastructure, albeit often PFI, in recent years (new hospitals, increased capacity and replaced equipment in cancer centres, new medical schools) - so the NHS is left in a semi-decent state for the barren years ahead.

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Parked outside my local GPs plush office is an 'ambulance' with those air spoiler wings at the back and one of those bonnet air intake grids- it looks suspiciously like a boy racer's dream car that has been painted up to serve as an ambulance :lol:

I'm hoping it's some kind of sponsership deal whereby the car maker donated the car for free- but it may be just a fine example of 'resource allocation' on the part of the PCT.

Then again I suppose a case could be made that to reach the scene quickly a sports car does offer certain advantages- well worthwhile spending the cash for I have no doubt.

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We want a top class NHS, but we must create the wealth to pay for it.

If it needs 100 middle managers, 90 administrators, to 10 doctors, then so be it, I am not to judge.

But at the moment, not enough wealth is being created, so we must go back a few steps.

I agree that we no longer have the funds; however what would you think if when a trade’s person called he was followed around by nine suits telling him what to do and recording everything that was said and done. I know I’d avoid using him as I doubt he could actually do the job.

We need a first class NHS but not one that is so amateurish, it needs to be run for professional to provide care and not as some paperwork exercise just to employ as many as possible, that policy failed in the USSR and Crash Gordon has proved it doesn’t work here.

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close friend of mine works in a primary care mental health dept of a trust commissioned by a PCT. They have a business manager who has to report back endless targets to the PCT. He can't work the bespoke, expensive patient management system properly so he has all the department doing Excel spreadsheets as well. He doesn't really know how to use Excel properly so their admin staff spend hours reinputing these spreadsheets manually to another spreadsheet when they could actually be doing some proper patient related admin if anyone taught him advanced Excel on a training course rather than diversity and conflict management, hell, if they really tried they might learn to properly use the computer system that a private company is creaming it in for. It's horrendous and I'm sure it's this sort of paper pushing waste that Lansley, influenced by his GP wife wants to get rid of.

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It's likely that part of the first wave of losses to the NHS are the better clinical staff. I know someone who's senior management in some private nursing homes. She tells me that some well qualified nurses on £30k are taking voluntary redundancies of a years pay, and then walking into a senior care home job on £30k. Some of the most competent and employable ones will jump first, while there's still lots of private sector vacancies. Many of the useless middle managers will cling on to the bitter end.

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I empathise with you personally but the simple fact is that the NHS has become hugely over-staffed with lower and middle management. My ex is a nurse who was offered, and took, such a job. She lasted a year but it drove her mad because nobody in her office ever did anything except sit around talking about last night's "Big Brother" on TV.

She said "It's weird, I remember when I was training that these were all wards, full of patients, now they are all offices with the most luxurious deep-pile carpets, full of people doing nothing".

As I said, she lasted a year then had to get back to nursing- "blood and guts" was her expression.

All this is wrong. I am out of work now (along with hundreds of thousands of others in the private sector), so I no longer pay PAYE and NI, so the wages of these people can no longer be paid. They have to go.

but these people who were sat around doing nothing are busy sacking all the frontline staff to feather their own nest ;) !

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but these people who were sat around doing nothing are busy sacking all the frontline staff to feather their own nest ;) !

The last person employed in the NHS definitely won’t be clinical that’s for sure.

Beaurocracy breeds beaurocracy, I’ve notice my local council still sent staff out last night to put up Christmas lights, despite the fact that they have started switch the street lights out to save money. :angry:

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I know a couple of hospitals that have basically put a freeze on hiring new staff - even if this is for replacement of essential staff. E.g. I know of one hospital department, which was already stretched to breaking point by work, where 2 consultants out of 8 have gone (retirement and health). The consultant's workload was bad before - it's now critical. And while the department has asked senior management for permission to recruit 2 new consultants, and the request is 'under consideration', but there is essentially no chance that permission for 2 would be offered for the forseeable future - and it's almost certain that no permission at all will be given before the end of 2012.

The current consultant workload is unsustainable, and can't continue for long. Unless the staff are replaced, there will be no choice but to reduce service provision.

That's perhaps understandable. But what of the juniors who have spent 6 years training for a specific consultant post? Things are much stricter now for juniors - previously, a junior could stay in post (within reason) until they find a consultant job. Now, however, once a doctor is deemed able enough to be a consultant, they must resign from their junior post within 6 months. If they haven't found a consultant job by then, then they'll be unemployed unless they can find alternative employment. (And don't think that means private sector work - most medical professional insurers will not insure a doctor for non-NHS work, unless they have a full-time NHS consultant job).

It would be a shocking waste of resources to train a doctor to be a consultant (at a cost of about £500k) and then not have a job for them to do at the end of it.

Edited by ChumpusRex

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If it needs 100 middle managers, 90 administrators, to 10 doctors, then so be it, I am not to judge.

No worries - I'll do the judging for you. Immediately sack all the paper shufflers.

Anyone involved in patient care, from hospital porter to neurosurgeon keeps their job.

And on a more serious note : yes there will be pain when these facilitators take over running the GP consortia. I'd rather we didn't have to use the American insurers as intermediaries, but hey, the utter waste and abuse of the Soviet republic of the NHS has got to be treated somehow.

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The problem is, it's the middle management pen pushers who get to decide who are for the chop.. and they're not going to axe themselves now are they ?

but these people who were sat around doing nothing are busy sacking all the frontline staff to feather their own nest ;) !

that's why the entire empire of paper pushers - the PCT system - is being abolished

the paper pushers are being sacked unceremoniously in order to prevent them doing exactly the above

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