Job Centre Says

[VeryMeanReversion]

Anecdotal and possibly OT, but since it is economy/unemployment related, I will post it anyway.

My godson aged 21 has been unemployed for a couple of years, other than some government supported make-work projects that have now ended. He has been doing gardening work and wants to get into building but with no experience is finding it difficult.

I'm buying a house that needs a lot of work so have said to him that I will pay him market labouring rates + free food/lodging to work on the house for three months, with a split over xmas so he can go home (lives 200 miles away). He would work with my builder and a professional landscaper to get some practical experience.

So he goes to the job centre, gives them the good news and says will need to sign-off.

He is then advised not to take the job as when it finishes, he will have to wait 6 weeks to sign on again (even the xmas break). The next advice is not to take anything more than 16 hours per week unless it is a permanent job (which he can't get without experience!).

VMR.

[Bloo Loo]

pay him cash, tell him to lie.

nobody cares.

[Blue Peter]

He is then advised not to take the job as when it finishes, he will have to wait 6 weeks to sign on again (even the xmas break).

Why the 6 weeks wait? Your job ends, he's unemployed, why can't he sign on straight away?

Peter.

[porca misèria]

He is then advised not to take the job as when it finishes, he will have to wait 6 weeks to sign on again (even the xmas break). The next advice is not to take anything more than 16 hours per week unless it is a permanent job (which he can't get without experience!).

Yep. You want the dole, you MUST be idle. Don't try to do anything productive with your time. That's why they need foreigners for seasonal jobs like fruit picking - Brits stand to lose far too much if they take the work.

IDS is supposed to be reforming that system, isn't he?

[VeryMeanReversion]

Why the 6 weeks wait? Your job ends, he's unemployed, why can't he sign on straight away?

Don't know, that's what they told him you have to do after having a full-time job. After 12 months of unemployment they are making him apply for anything they feel like and now sign-on weekly rather than the usual biweekly. He's a good, clean, presentable kid with several GCSEs, never been in any trouble but even got turned down by Pizza Hut for a delivery job when he could provide his own motorbike.

BlooLoo - lying is of course the obvious option but he would have to get the train back every week to sign on again. I expect its better just to make it a 16 hour a week job with local sign on and keep quiet about the extra 24 hours a week work or keep paying him for 16 hours a week for 2.5x the period he actually worked.

[Bloo Loo]

Don't know, that's what they told him you have to do after having a full-time job. After 12 months of unemployment they are making him apply for anything they feel like and now sign-on weekly rather than the usual biweekly. He's a good, clean, presentable kid with several GCSEs, never been in any trouble but even got turned down by Pizza Hut for a delivery job when he could provide his own motorbike.

BlooLoo - lying is of course the obvious option but he would have to get the train back every week to sign on again. I expect its better just to make it a 16 hour a week job with local sign on and keep quiet about the extra 24 hours a week work or keep paying him for 16 hours a week for 2.5x the period he actually worked.

I wouldnt lie myself, and I certainly wouldnt suggest he had "Moved" to your place during a family dispute, so he had to sign on locally.

It is a total disgrace this situation.

course, he could be encouraged to get a mortgage (Part buy of course), and the moment your contract ends, he could await a rescue scheme and full bailout.

[profitofdoom]

Anecdotal and possibly OT, but since it is economy/unemployment related, I will post it anyway.

My godson aged 21 has been unemployed for a couple of years, other than some government supported make-work projects that have now ended. He has been doing gardening work and wants to get into building but with no experience is finding it difficult.

I'm buying a house that needs a lot of work so have said to him that I will pay him market labouring rates + free food/lodging to work on the house for three months, with a split over xmas so he can go home (lives 200 miles away). He would work with my builder and a professional landscaper to get some practical experience.

So he goes to the job centre, gives them the good news and says will need to sign-off.

He is then advised not to take the job as when it finishes, he will have to wait 6 weeks to sign on again (even the xmas break). The next advice is not to take anything more than 16 hours per week unless it is a permanent job (which he can't get without experience!).

VMR.

You must be nuts.He should just tell them he is having a free holiday with you and go home to sign on.

[cybernoid]

Would he still be better off from the 3 months work even if he couldn't claim for 6 weeks afterwards? Even if not, the difference is surely a price worth paying for the experience

[athom]

I expect its better just to make it a 16 hour a week job with local sign on and keep quiet about the extra 24 hours a week work or keep paying him for 16 hours a week for 2.5x the period he actually worked.

Yes, pay him the same total divided by 16 hours and have him do unpaid overtime. As long as he declares his earnings it sounds legal to me but i'm no expert (not even slightly). It's not his fault the system is buggered so can hardly be blamed for working around it until it gets fixed.

[Tonkers]

Look at getting the dole to pay you to take him on, (I am sure there is such a scheme), and use that money as a bonus so he can survive the six weeks off.

Your godson should take this job despite any barriers as it can be so satisfying and confidence boosting. As he is away from home he will be very focused and their hopefully will be a real 'crew' mentality and friendship. Just getting a break from signing on every week can help.

£2500 grant to take on long term unemployed

[juvenal]

He's your godson. You can give him up to £3K a year as a gift. Have him do the work for 'free', travelling back to sign on weekly. Settle up privately.

[VeryMeanReversion]

>You must be nuts.

No argument from me.

>He should just tell them he is having a free holiday with you and go home to sign on.

I do feel some responsibility for him and don't want to get him into trouble if he gets caught.

Would he still be better off from the 3 months work even if he couldn't claim for 6 weeks afterwards? Even if not, the difference is surely a price worth paying for the experience

Yes, he would be paid £50/day for say 10-12 weeks = £2500-£3000, enough to compensate for 6 weeks loss of jobseekers (~£375). We were just both shocked by the job centre saying that they advise him not to take the job. I bet there is a rule where he can claim again straight away, the thread really is intended to show an example of how the job centre is not doing its job.

[VeryMeanReversion]

He's your godson. You can give him up to £3K a year as a gift. Have him do the work for 'free', travelling back to sign on weekly. Settle up privately.

That would be £130 in train fares a week.

Its looking like he should do 16 hours officially for me, sign on locally whilst claiming he is looking for work in this area, which I think he should actually do anyway since there is nothing in his home town and plenty of jobs around here.

I don't think I would be able to get the £2500 hiring payment, even though I will be paying experienced workers to train and supervise him. I am employing him as a private individual rather than a business.

Tx for all the advice.

[Kevlarhead]

>You must be nuts.

No argument from me.

>He should just tell them he is having a free holiday with you and go home to sign on.

I do feel some responsibility for him and don't want to get him into trouble if he gets caught.

Yes, he would be paid £50/day for say 10-12 weeks = £2500-£3000, enough to compensate for 6 weeks loss of jobseekers (~£375). We were just both shocked by the job centre saying that they advise him not to take the job. I bet there is a rule where he can claim again straight away, the thread really is intended to show an example of how the job centre is not doing its job.

From experience, I can say that JobCentre staff are often clueless, vindictive or both. I'd advice your Godson to take a trip to his local Welfare rights office. They know the Jobcentre's procedures, ('cos that six week claim stop sounds distinctly fishy to me) but aren't focussed on shafting the claimant at every turn.

[ccc]

>You must be nuts.

No argument from me.

>He should just tell them he is having a free holiday with you and go home to sign on.

I do feel some responsibility for him and don't want to get him into trouble if he gets caught.

Yes, he would be paid £50/day for say 10-12 weeks = £2500-£3000, enough to compensate for 6 weeks loss of jobseekers (~£375). We were just both shocked by the job centre saying that they advise him not to take the job. I bet there is a rule where he can claim again straight away, the thread really is intended to show an example of how the job centre is not doing its job.

Now that is irony. I think.

[MacGuffin]

I'm wondering if your godson might have misunderstood what the Jobcentre people were telling him.

Perhaps they meant 'it can take up to six weeks for your claim to be processed and for you to receive the backdated payment', but said it something like 'You won't get any money for six weeks'.

I've never heard of any rule that says someone can't sign on for six weeks after a job ends.

[rented]

Anecdotal and possibly OT, but since it is economy/unemployment related, I will post it anyway.

My godson aged 21 has been unemployed for a couple of years, other than some government supported make-work projects that have now ended. He has been doing gardening work and wants to get into building but with no experience is finding it difficult.

I'm buying a house that needs a lot of work so have said to him that I will pay him market labouring rates + free food/lodging to work on the house for three months, with a split over xmas so he can go home (lives 200 miles away). He would work with my builder and a professional landscaper to get some practical experience.

So he goes to the job centre, gives them the good news and says will need to sign-off.

He is then advised not to take the job as when it finishes, he will have to wait 6 weeks to sign on again (even the xmas break). The next advice is not to take anything more than 16 hours per week unless it is a permanent job (which he can't get without experience!).

VMR.

What stage is he at? If he's at Stage 3 or 4 he should be able to go for Rapid Reclaim i.e. they keep the claim open for 6 months but stop the payments for the duration of the work provided he will be claiming at the same address as before when he reclaims. Not sure of the exact conditions (that he might be moving for work might make his claim after he's finished work a new claim) but it's definitely called Rapid Reclaim and it exists to try and prevent exactly the kind of thing they told him.

Edit to add: Downside of Rapid Reclaim is that since the claim isn't closed he goes back into the system wherever he left off, i.e. Stage 3/4 etc, and has to continue from there.

[Bloo Loo]

That would be £130 in train fares a week.

Its looking like he should do 16 hours officially for me, sign on locally whilst claiming he is looking for work in this area, which I think he should actually do anyway since there is nothing in his home town and plenty of jobs around here.

I don't think I would be able to get the £2500 hiring payment, even though I will be paying experienced workers to train and supervise him. I am employing him as a private individual rather than a business.

Tx for all the advice.

thats a huge train fare...have you tried booking in advance...you'll know them what days he is off sick in advance

[porca misèria]

Just a thought here ...

Do job centres or their employees have incentives that might influence this? I.e., could there be some penalty (or loss-of-prospective bonus) from him taking this job? Bear in mind not only is it not through them, it's also taken with the clear prospect of having to sign on again at a later date, which might reflect badly on their performance targets.

[Self Employed Youth]

>You must be nuts.

No argument from me.

>He should just tell them he is having a free holiday with you and go home to sign on.

I do feel some responsibility for him and don't want to get him into trouble if he gets caught.

Yes, he would be paid £50/day for say 10-12 weeks = £2500-£3000, enough to compensate for 6 weeks loss of jobseekers (~£375). We were just both shocked by the job centre saying that they advise him not to take the job. I bet there is a rule where he can claim again straight away, the thread really is intended to show an example of how the job centre is not doing its job.

As your Godson is under 25, 6 weeks dole will be £311.1

[VeryMeanReversion]

[quote name='rented' timestamp='1290426108' post='2796114'

What stage is he at? If he's at Stage 3 or 4 he should be able to go for Rapid Reclaim i.e. they keep the claim open for 6 months but stop the payments for the duration of the work provided he will be claiming at the same address as before when he reclaims. Not sure of the exact conditions (that he might be moving for work might make his claim after he's finished work a new claim) but it's definitely called Rapid Reclaim and it exists to try and prevent exactly the kind of thing they told him.

Good advice, will check it out.

>Do job centres or their employees have incentives that might influence this? I.e., could there be some penalty (or loss-of-prospective bonus) from him taking this job?

I did wonder that but I thought I was being too cycnical.

>As your Godson is under 25, 6 weeks dole will be £311.1

Tx, I was on £56pw last time I claimed, didnt realise they have found another way to keep the under-25's poor as long as possible.

Tx to all, I will ask mods to move to OT.

[douggggy]

one little thing your godson may not know or have not been told if he is now signing weekly,

every other week, ie, the week you would not normally be signing (the non cycle week)

you can claim your travelling expenses to and from the job centre IN CASH,

bring your bus tickets or its 25p a mile there and back if by car.. which ever is the greater!

[happy_renting]

Look at getting the dole to pay you to take him on, (I am sure there is such a scheme), and use that money as a bonus so he can survive the six weeks off.

Your godson should take this job despite any barriers as it can be so satisfying and confidence boosting. As he is away from home he will be very focused and their hopefully will be a real 'crew' mentality and friendship. Just getting a break from signing on every week can help.

£2500 grant to take on long term unemployed

I believe that inducement is no longer available.

[Number79]

I dont know what to say apart from un-fecking-believable :angry:

You are doing a great thing for him though. Cant buy experience like that and cant get it any other way. He has to have that chance and not throw it away because of those job centre diks.

[OnionTerror]

It might be worth asking the question here...

http://www.jobseekersadvice.com/forum2/index.php

AFAIK, rapid reclaim is 3 months. After that, the claim starts again. If its a genuine offer, which is taxed / declared accordingly, I don't see an issue, although the JC are a law until themselves...