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longtomsilver

My Landlords Mortgage Is Not Btl

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I telephoned my landlord recently asking if he would like me to forward his mail on and he was quite rude. Told me it was all junk mail and to bin it all. One item of post you could clear make out under the paper it said 'mortgage statement' so I left the room and returned to find that my 18month old daughter had torn it open (naughty naughty). I immediately took it to the shredder but couldn't help to notice that his mortgage is an offset type and not a BTL. I assume if he had informed the building society then the post would have been redirected to his home address.

What would happen if the BS were to find out ? What are the ramifications for both the landlord and myself ?

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Tsk tsk. Naughty baby.

Your LL is probably in breach of mortgage conditions, but lender probably won't do anything except maybe add penalties or reset interest due.

If he goes down the tubes you're an unauthorised tenant with limited safeguards - you can keep the lender out of possession for 2 months, not much more.

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not encessarily.

very much depends on the bank's policy and how much equity he has.

you'll see from a brief survey of comparison websites that LTV's are generally lower on BTL and IR's higher.quite simply he may well be asked to stump up more capital and if he can't then.....

reality is that if you're happy there leave it be.if you want to shaft him,then make the phone call,they may or may not act.

I'm sure the tenant doesn't want to shaft the LL - invites all sorts of problems.

You're suggesting that the lender may be able to demand capital in a sort of margin call? Depends on the contract terms, but even so the LL can bank on the courts allowing him to pay off within the term of the mortgage.

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If he goes down the tubes you're an unauthorised tenant with limited safeguards - you can keep the lender out of possession for 2 months, not much more.

2 months?

In the worst case you might hear nothing of the repossession 'til you come back some day and find the locks changed and your belongings on the street, and a note from the bailiffs.

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2 months?

In the worst case you might hear nothing of the repossession 'til you come back some day and find the locks changed and your belongings on the street, and a note from the bailiffs.

We all know that this can happen in practice, but notice of the possession proceedings ought to be served on any occupant and not just the borrower.

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We all know that this can happen in practice, but notice of the possession proceedings ought to be served on any occupant and not just the borrower.

Do you know where that stands legally now, in cases where the lender doesn't know there's a tenant?

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Do you know where that stands legally now, in cases where the lender doesn't know there's a tenant?

Recent change from 1 Oct - tenant can write to lender looking for delay, if lender doesn't give it tenant can apply to court.

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Recent change from 1 Oct - tenant can write to lender looking for delay, if lender doesn't give it tenant can apply to court.

Which seems to assume tenant knows repossession is happening in time to take action ...

What about the case where tenant has no idea of the repo, and lender has no idea of the tenant?

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Unfortunately, tenants usually only come onto forums like this for advice on how to solve problems rather than prevent them. Every prospective tenant ought really to check whether the property he is taking is mortgaged. This is very easy to do (assuming the property is registered) by logging on to the Land Registry site and checking the title online. It only costs four pounds. If a mortgage is revealed do not proceed until written consent is obtained or evidence supplied that consent is not required.

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This thread assumes that the lender will want to gain vacant possession. I know of a number of cases where the mortgagee has appointed a receiver and continued to let the property to the tenant who was in occupation at the time the property was repossessed the mortgagee took whatever action was necessary to safeguard its security.

In these instances it has made no difference to the tenant whether the mortgagor or the mortgagee has possession. As this is quite normal now what is the problem?

Edited by sleepwello'nights

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This thread assumes that the lender will want to gain vacant possession. I know of a number of cases where the mortgagee has appointed a receiver and continued to let the property to the tenant who was in occupation at the time the property was repossessed the mortgagee took whatever action was necessary to safeguard its security.

In these instances it has made no difference to the tenant whether the mortgagor or the mortgagee has possession. As this is quite normal now what is the problem?

The problem is when that doesn't happen.

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If I was you I would hold on to the information discretely. Rather than getting into conflict now (which ends as a lose/lose situation) - use the information if the landlord gets difficult over your deposit when you move out. If he doesn't get difficult, then don't mention it.

But you can feel a bit more secure knowing what you know and knowing that he doesn't know that you know what you know.

Y

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The problem is when that doesn't happen.

Yes, but the tenant is usually in no worse a position than if he is validly given two months notice by the landlord.

I'd do what Yokel suggests and hold on to the information in case I could use it to my advantage later.

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Thanks guys. It had crossed my mind to 'Return to sender as not known at this address' but as Yokel suggests it is best to keep tight lipped for knowledge is power. If he decides to up my rent come the time then this will be my parting shot.

:lol:

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Yes, but the tenant is usually in no worse a position than if he is validly given two months notice by the landlord.

I'd do what Yokel suggests and hold on to the information in case I could use it to my advantage later.

Not sure how valuable the information is given that it was obtained illegally and that it may already be out of date (the landlord may have switched to an investment mortgage and declared all information to the BS since the letter was received). In attempting to use the information you may well just antogonise the landlord and in an extreme case, could even end up on the wrong end of a police complaint.

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This thread assumes that the lender will want to gain vacant possession. I know of a number of cases where the mortgagee has appointed a receiver and continued to let the property to the tenant who was in occupation at the time the property was repossessed the mortgagee took whatever action was necessary to safeguard its security.

In these instances it has made no difference to the tenant whether the mortgagor or the mortgagee has possession. As this is quite normal now what is the problem?

Most people who drink ten pints then drive home at 80mph on the city streets will be just fine, so where's the problem?

Tenants want security. Two months notice is rather poor security (given that it could come at a time when you can't go house-hunting), but it's a lot better than nothing.

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sweating are we?

yeah,CPS is going to drop £20,000 for his kid opening mail delivered to his hosue.yawn..............

as for the LL having switched,if he has fine,if he hasn't then he'd better pony up with some cash.In my experience they change the mortgage before the tenant moves in.

he won't end up on the wrong side of a police complaint.for what?do you really think the police have nothing better to do?do you really think the OP will be dumb enough to elave his name and number,do you really think the bank will ask for it.

for what it's worth bingo,the no. 1 cause of LL's getting reported for not having BTL mortgages is other LL's who have BTL mortgages shopping them via the land reg.even better,this will only increase as rents are driven down and voids move up.delightful.

No, I'm not sweating, it really doesn't affect me in any way. I agree there is probably no way that an anonymous tip off could be traced back to the OP, but it seemed to be suggested that he use the information as some sort of bargaining tool with his LL direct (maybe I read it wrong). With regard to opening someone elses mail, it's covered under the Postal Sevices Act 2000 Section 84 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/26/section/84 . I actually know of someone who has been relatively heavily fined under this act (following an incident in a shared house) and I assume it's probably more common than people realise. As for wasting police time, if the law has been broken and a complaint made to the police, then they have to follow things up, it doesn't matter if they think it's a waste of time or not, and whilst I wholeheartedly agree they should have better things to do, I fear that most actually don't.

Edit: Fixed link.

Edited by bingobob

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With regard to opening someone elses mail, it's covered under the Postal Sevices Act 2000 Section 84 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/26/section/84 . I actually know of someone who has been relatively heavily fined under this act (following an incident in a shared house) and I assume it's probably more common than people realise. As for wasting police time, if the law has been broken and a complaint made to the police, then they have to follow things up, it doesn't matter if they think it's a waste of time or not, and whilst I wholeheartedly agree they should have better things to do, I fear that most actually don't.

I've followed your link and I can't see how it relates to opening someone else's mail. The letter has been transmitted to the correct address, even though the intended recipient no longer resides there. So I don't see how opening it is interfering with its transmission. Can you tell me where my logic is wrong and give some links to decided cases.

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I've followed your link and I can't see how it relates to opening someone else's mail. The letter has been transmitted to the correct address, even though the intended recipient no longer resides there. So I don't see how opening it is interfering with its transmission. Can you tell me where my logic is wrong and give some links to decided cases.

Indeed, that is really there to stop postal workers opening mail. I would imagine you wouldn't have trouble convincing a judge to let you off using this wording.

"A person commits an offence if, intending to act to a person’s detriment and without reasonable excuse, he opens a postal packet which he knows or reasonably suspects has been incorrectly delivered to him."

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With regard to OP, I have been in this situation or in fact worse so I can give you first hand real experience of how much information you get when it comes to kicking out time.

We opened court papers, the letter inside was printed in such a way that you couldn't see who the letter was addressed to without opening it, so we opened it in good faith. It was full of information about how the owner had not paid the mortgage for the last 7 months and that the mortgage company were going to seek repossession through the courts. We rang the mortgage companies legal representatives and while on the first call they told us some information after that they used the Data Protection Act to tell us nothing at all, as the mortgage was not a BTL we had no right to know what was going on, what the judgement from the court was and what was going on.

We did eventually find out that he had been given an extension to pay the money but of course he didn't. I'm convinced it was less than 2 months notice when we got the letter from the court appointed bailiff. Basically we had 3 weeks to find somewhere and move out, we spoke the bailiff and he was a nice chap and gave us another week or so to get our stuff moved out as we arranged with him that we send any keys we had back to him.

Having said all that my advice would be that it is none of your business and don't mention it. I'm saying that because you really don't want to put the Landlord in a situation where he has to pay more money and therefore increase the likelihood that you will be in the same situation I was in. Personally I would be great is all BTL types went bust but I'd rather not have it on a property I'm living in again.

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  • 245 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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