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The Telegragh has an interesting article on their attempts to track home flippers down. The shocking thing is that it appears that they seem to know this is widespread. Can't wait to hear the line that the VIs take on this.

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The Telegragh has an interesting article on their attempts to track home flippers down. The shocking thing is that it appears that they seem to know this is widespread. Can't wait to hear the line that the VIs take on this.

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I suspect the line will be something like "It's legal for my MP, so surely it's legal for me?"

And (much as I might dislike their VI) they might have a point

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I suspect the line will be something like "It's legal for my MP, so surely it's legal for me?"

And (much as I might dislike their VI) they might have a point

Though I agree with your sentiments, if we all followed their example society would vanish.

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Well the HMRC is hooked into most peoples bank accounts without them knowing, for example if you have a direct debit setup to pay HMRC and you cancel the DD, within 48hrs you will get a letter from HMRC informing you.

Applies to anyone you have a DD setup with.

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Im sure the flippers are quaking.

Having never flipped, Im sure a large bill will arrive on my doormat, addressed to my long deceased father, complete with court order and 7 day notice.

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Im sure the flippers are quaking.

Having never flipped, Im sure a large bill will arrive on my doormat, addressed to my long deceased father, complete with court order and 7 day notice.

There is good to come out of this if it starts recouping lost CGT. I’d be upset if I get one like yourself.

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I suspect the line will be something like "It's legal for my MP, so surely it's legal for me?"

And (much as I might dislike their VI) they might have a point

If you read the article properly you will find that the taxman is clamping down on people who claim that they lived in the house, when they didn't.

Whatever the MPs did, they didn't do that.

And once again the statement that CGT is totally avoided by flipping is wrong.

tim

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I'm more than a little shocked that the article is telling you how to avoid paying tax and not get caught for tax evasion. If it weren't for this information then those selling second homes, on which substantial tax is rightly due, would have to pay it. Incredible really. It's a bit like telling people how to rob a bank, but ensure you can't be prosecuted for an illegal activity afterwards.

The intent of the rules is for real homeowners to not be taxed. However the paper and GT spokesperson are encouraging people to go against the spirit of it all and try and con the system by pretending you lived there as a first home! Bloomin incredible. And this is being lauded as a good thing is it. So what would happen if everyone avoided paying any tax?

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Well the HMRC is hooked into most peoples bank accounts without them knowing.....

Is this really true? Do HMRC really have at will access to my bank accounts without me knowing - and without some sort of court order/warrant?

I have wondered about this - but not seen anything in the media publicising this fact. If true, have you got any links to any websites that would 'confirm' this. Otherwise, although Big Brother is admittedly encroaching on every aspect of our lives at a rapid pace, I fear that this particular claim is still akin to the old urban legends like TV detector vans.

Edited by anonguest

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Is this really true? Do HMRC really have at will access to my bank accounts without me knowing - and without some sort of court order/warrant?

I have wondered about this - but not seen anything in the media publicising this fact. If true, have you got any links to any websites that would 'confirm' this. Otherwise, although Big Brother is admittedly encroaching on every aspect of our lives at a rapid pace, I fear that this particular claim is still akin to the old urban legends like TV detector vans.

Urban myth.

Even the serious organized crime agency don't have that sort of access. That's why they have reporting requirements with banks for suspicious transactions ... not all transactions!

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Though I agree with your sentiments, if we all followed their example society would vanish.

Too true.

Sadly, human nature being what it is, I doubt many will be thinking "better not flip - think of big society". Certainly many not from the general population, though I feel that we SHOULD hold our well-paid so-called leaders to a higher standard. (This is just on the flipping side of things - don't get me started on fraudulent expenses, etc).

I suppose there is an argument to say don't criticise the players, criticise the game, so...

There ought to be a clear legal guidance on what constitutes a principle residence, how it is determine, how it is changed, etc. but HMRC don't always seem to be particularly keen on clear unambiguous guidance...

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Is this really true? Do HMRC really have at will access to my bank accounts without me knowing - and without some sort of court order/warrant?

I have wondered about this - but not seen anything in the media publicising this fact. If true, have you got any links to any websites that would 'confirm' this. Otherwise, although Big Brother is admittedly encroaching on every aspect of our lives at a rapid pace, I fear that this particular claim is still akin to the old urban legends like TV detector vans.

Total baloney. The fact they notice a DD authorisation has stopped doesn`t mean they access your account at will....

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If you read the article properly you will find that the taxman is clamping down on people who claim that they lived in the house, when they didn't.

Whatever the MPs did, they didn't do that.

I think you'll find that at least some of them did...

And once again the statement that CGT is totally avoided by flipping is wrong.

tim

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sorry, what's really meant by flipping?

On your PPR primary principle residence you do not pay tax when you sell if you've lived in it 100% . If you have lived in it partially you get 3 years off the CGT i.e. they treat 3 years as lived in therefore a substantial discount on CGT. Thus many home owners of multiple homes move into (virtually) by election into a house they want to sell and thus get a CGT discount.

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Thus many home owners of multiple homes move into (virtually) by election into a house they want to sell and thus get a CGT discount.

Ie committed tax fraud which attracts imprisonment and fines of 2x the tax evaded and payment of the tax evaded, IIRC.

Its interesting to speculate on what would happen to a western nation that suddenly and viciously turned on its well-informed, priviliged, thieving elite after letting them get away with it for decades.

Fantasy I know, but imagine what a fabulous spectacle it would provide.

I wonder what, if anything, could persuade those in power who have played the game straight to throw their less ethical cronies to the dogs.

Edited by xux42

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Ie committed tax fraud which attracts imprisonment and fines of 2x the tax evaded and payment of the tax evaded, IIRC.

Its interesting to speculate on what would happen to a western nation that suddenly and viciously turned on its well-informed, priviliged, thieving elite after letting them get away with it for decades.

Fantasy I know, but imagine what a fabulous spectacle it would provide.

I wonder what, if anything, could persuade those in power who have played the game straight to throw their less ethical cronies to the dogs.

France 1789.

Vive la France

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Ie committed tax fraud which attracts imprisonment and fines of 2x the tax evaded and payment of the tax evaded, IIRC.

Its interesting to speculate on what would happen to a western nation that suddenly and viciously turned on its well-informed, priviliged, thieving elite after letting them get away with it for decades.

Fantasy I know, but imagine what a fabulous spectacle it would provide.

I wonder what, if anything, could persuade those in power who have played the game straight to throw their less ethical cronies to the dogs.

Seeing how they have been tarred with the same brush that will help ease their conscience if they feel to try out the bad apples.

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Ie committed tax fraud which attracts imprisonment and fines of 2x the tax evaded IIRC.

Its interesting to speculate on what would happen to a western nation that suddenly and viciously turned on its well-informed, priviliged, thieving elite after letting them get away with it for decades.

Fantasy I know, but imagine what a fabulous spectacle it would provide.

I wonder what, if anything, could persuade those in power who have played the game straight to throw their less ethical cronies to the dogs.

Actually the tax manuals don't set a criteria for election of a principle private residence i.e. they don't say you have to move in or anything, just that it is just choose one or the Inland revenue (at the time) will choose for you. Until a shed load of MPs were caught the election of PPR was normally done long after the place had been sold. When it was time to calculate the CGT. Today there is still no criteria but accountants will generally say compelling evidence that this was your PPR.

There are plenty of ways to obsfucate this neatly, i.e. simply don't elect one HMRC doesn't generally mind read you and thus cannot force a PPR onto you, when it comes to sell that is my PPR!

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Anyway why is everybody cheering for more extortion? Taxes = theft and extortion, hand over the money or you get put into prison. You don't even have to vaguely go into Injin world to appreciate this fact.

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My dad used to be an HM Inspector of Taxes (a special investigator) boo hiss I hear some say and he had access to all sorts of things like bank accounts which most people would be shocked to learn imo.

He's even investigated many very very wealthy people as well and had access to swiss bank accounts even back in the 80's but he left mid 90's and does the same job as an accountant/tax advisor now in London (the other side as he puts it) even though he still keeps in touch with some on the inside.

Cant provide links though as its all secret and he's bound but it goes without saying the HMRC computer system is hooked into more things that people realise.

Putting aside the current screw ups with the new system, lets just say HMRC allow tax avoiders enough rope to hang themselves before they get pursued.

Edit: I will add one thing, The BoE "works" for the Govt ie the Treasury, all banks are licenced by the Govt and are by law obliged to carry out the requests of the treasury and if anyone didnt know HMRC can even enter your house and search it without a search warrant as just one example of their powers which might be more common knowledge. ;)

Heres some links might be enlightening.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200607/ldbills/027/en/07027x-d.htm

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article1848410.ece

ie, what you spend at Makro....... ;)

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Enjoyed this bit.

“For example, you should be able to show that you paid council tax and utility bills at that address. I also suggest inviting the vicar round for tea – that is, someone who can speak up for you and who the tribunal will believe.”

Speake volumes of the target demographic. Wouldn't be seen anywhere near a church unless it had something to do with school admissions, and yet perfectly comfortable with cynically luring some daft old clergyman into their web of deceit.

C of E missing a trick here. They've got a well established business in hatches, matches and despatches, but they haven't really tapped the Expert Witness market!

Edited by Laughing Gnome

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  • 261 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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